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why heavys are becoming useless

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
oso tiburon The Generals EoN. 0	Posted - 2013.04.12 17:13:00 - [1] - Quote ok first off i am a dedicated heavy type 5 im running a vk0 2 synapse extenders and mehnir repairer and samson goliath plates with a enhanced sheild recharger total is 232 sheild and 932 armor or somthing close .. heres the problem with all that on me i move about as fast as a school bus on ice turn just as bad my broadside has the range of a slingshot ( my sharp shooting is lvl 4 ) i have sp in all the right places and yet if im caught alone 1v1 an assult as im shooting hes playing neo from the matrix side stepping jumping up and down and before you know it half a clip from him and woops im dead ... i know it would be unfair and the game would be dominated if the hmg was as powerfull as the ar but i mean already were the slowest class out there and our hmgs dont have anything for stopping power or range but this is ridiculus somthings gotta give either give us more range or more hitting power i have no problem taking a half hour to get somewhere on foot but cut the fat guys some slack
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc 214	Posted - 2013.04.12 17:26:00 - [2] - Quote A heavy machine gun was always a weapon designed to be supported. If you look at its foundation during WW1 and WW2, a HMG would typically be supported by up to 8 regular infantry. That you are losing 1v1 at a closer range is not surprising. I am not going to go into the is this to strong or is this not strong enough, but just wanted to speak as to the typical design element of the weapon and how your post goes against the design of the weapon.
Bones McGavins Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 58	Posted - 2013.04.12 17:32:00 - [3] - Quote If you unload a clip at an assault with the STANDARD HMG and he doesnt die, you are doing it wrong, I dont care how much he jumps around. I destroy black suit assaults 1on1 all the time with my standard hmg and standard heavy suit. Usually with plenty of ammo to spare. Most times they can crack my shield and get me about half armor if they are good. And im not that good a this game. So what are you doing wrong? Also, maybe try carrying a scrambler pistol and landing a few shots with that on a pesky assault instead of trying to control the "hose" of the HMG. Or, ya know, try to throw on an AR yourself for more percision.
DS 10 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 161	Posted - 2013.04.12 17:58:00 - [4] - Quote You're doing something wrong. My standard fit is HMG on a Type II suit with 2 complex damage mods and basic armor plates. I regularly smack kids in proto suits and other heavies. My deaths come from running off by myself and getting swarmed by enemies. Maybe that's what you're doing. I think the biggest issue with the Heavy is the price of its gear and weapons. You're supposed to be slow. You're not supposed to have AR/LR range (SS Prof 3 ftw). Be sure your skills are allocated appropriately. If you don't have Shield Control 5, Weaponry 5, and Field Mechanics 5, you're definitely doing it wrong.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 427	Posted - 2013.04.12 18:06:00 - [5] - Quote In my A-Series heavy with a standard HMG I have no general issue with proto users (protoscout hit detection is another issue but I digress). Actual proto users I could care less, good players however are an issue. They will drill my head right quick. Good players are also usually smart enough to not be in 1v1, you might have seen their friend a second ago, they weren't alone because if your running around solo your asking for pain. A good depiction of my run in with good players is the combat (sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, sometimes I GTFO) if I win I generally find their friend shortly after who runs/attacks based on the scenario. A lot of the time the logi is smart enough to just stay down and his friend tells him when it is clear enough to get him up. If I die I usually see his friends follow, and if the guy died they usually pick him up. The key to what I just said is the real challenges are team players. Hell I've had little issue putting down Proto Heavies with A-Series + Adv HMG. %&$^ man I've put down a heavy using an HMG using a Type-II and a Toxin SMG (main was forge, someone got a spawn behind our lines) using nearby obstacles and letting him play stupid. Also yeah your losing on 1v1 because generally it isn't a fair fight, you've taken shots to the shield already, are down 20% Armor and not paying attention to how significant that is. Even if you knew you were in a bad situation you have plates on that have a penalty the equivalent of the bonus for 2 basic speed mods! 10% longer to cover means ~10% more damage before you get there. However in the first place I don't think the devs should take advice on the balance of the heavy class when the first sentence is "ok first off i am a dedicated heavy type 5". From the sounds of it your a dedicated heavy type 5 dollar anyway. Great you have some skill points in places, but from what you said you aren't aware of how to play the role you are decked out for.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1434	Posted - 2013.04.12 18:08:00 - [6] - Quote oso tiburon wrote: ok first off i am a dedicated heavy type 5 im running a vk0 2 synapse extenders and mehnir repairer and samson goliath plates with a enhanced sheild recharger total is 232 sheild and 932 armor or somthing close .. heres the problem with all that on me i move about as fast as a school bus on ice turn just as bad my broadside has the range of a slingshot ( my sharp shooting is lvl 4 ) i have sp in all the right places and yet if im caught alone 1v1 an assult as im shooting hes playing neo from the matrix side stepping jumping up and down and before you know it half a clip from him and woops im dead ... i know it would be unfair and the game would be dominated if the hmg was as powerfull as the ar but i mean already were the slowest class out there and our hmgs dont have anything for stopping power or range but this is ridiculus somthings gotta give either give us more range or more hitting power i have no problem taking a half hour to get somewhere on foot but cut the fat guys some slack you just need to know how to use him
Comissar Skelus Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 19	Posted - 2013.04.12 18:17:00 - [7] - Quote Here we go again.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1434	Posted - 2013.04.12 18:20:00 - [8] - Quote Comissar Skelus wrote: Here we go again. again who did this before me?
Ten Wolves D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.04.12 18:25:00 - [9] - Quote The Heavy class is far from useless. I play a Logistics class and when every I see a heavy I run back to either a safe point with lots of my squad members around to swarm him or run to a friendly heavy and use my repair tool on him until he manages to kill the enemy heavy. In the first case will usually end up killing guy but not without taking a lot of loses on our side. In the second option the friendly heavy gets the kill and we continue on or the enemy heavy is smart and manages to make me out while I'm repairing my squad member. This game can be very hard if you don't use your class in the right way. Its always best to stick with your squad members and either support with a heavy by keeping the enemy running for cover or clearing out a room with a good Logi to watch your back. The point is just because a heavy has a **** load of health dose not make it able to kill everything that moves without taking some much as a scratch... Stick with a good Logi and you'll be fine.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 427	Posted - 2013.04.12 18:35:00 - [10] - Quote I think the main thing is people get angry about assault vs heavy like they are supposed to have the same job. If you're angry because a class you fight is able to do what you're doing better then you're problem is your in the wrong dropsuit. Because you're trying to play that role in the wrong suit. SP Refund May 6th, start some CCP appreciation threads because they just helped you out. Afterwards it isn't their fault if you didn't realize your mistake.

XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1434	Posted - 2013.04.12 18:39:00 - [11] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: I think the main thing is people get angry about assault vs heavy like they are supposed to have the same job. If you're angry because a class you fight is able to do what you're doing better then you're problem is your in the wrong dropsuit. Because you're trying to play that role in the wrong suit. SP Refund May 6th, start some CCP appreciation threads because they just helped you out. Afterwards it isn't their fault if you didn't realize your mistake. so that is why people want to nerf the heavy
Jastad Eliters 3	Posted - 2013.04.12 18:59:00 - [12] - Quote Flux are ( one) of the way!
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:26:00 - [13] - Quote TBH I hope there's a sense of progression in the dropsuit skill tree post Uprising; there are too many Heavies, but they don't live up to the role of bullet sponge. This is really just the tip of the iceberg however. (Turns out I have a lot to say on this) The real problem is that right now the dropsuit skill tree is more of a shrub than a tree - no big trunks, just branches and roots. Right from the start, you can buy a militia heavy suit (and/or invest a bit of SP into missing gear), make a fitting and then just swap to it when needed. Enemy pushing hard? Better grab that HMG (12k SP) Heavy everyone has for just that occasion. Tanks? Forge Heavy (militia) or Swarm Assault (again militia). Sniper got you down? Good thing there's an unlimited militia sniper BPO that everyone starts with. This is bad! People should be encouraged to stick with their role, not jump around between suits like headless chickens! Players need to be invested in their skills, and their chosen skills should reflect what they bring to the field. Pilots in EVE rarely have the luxury of being able to re-ship in mid battle (it requires Capitals, which someone needs to fly), and so the roles need to be thought out beforehand. People need to be comfortable with their chosen role(s). A huge culprit is militia gear, which seems like a nice idea on paper, but is actually a huge detriment to game play; a training facility where you can try out just about anything would be much preferable. EVE has civilian grade gear as the militia equivalent; there's just enough of it to fit out a rookie ship with some really horrible modules, and you get better gear in the very first set of tutorials. New players should not be encouraged to stick to militia gear (I'd actually rather have it all removed to be substituted with a rookie ship equivalent) so basic gear needs to be within reach - that means light dropsuits (not scouts, that's a specialized light) and whatever weapons that dropsuit enables. This issue isn't going to be solved until players can no longer throw minimal amounts of SP into random skills to unlock specialist weapons and platforms, to swap into whenever a condition is met. You don't see effective tanks every game, and when you do it's usually at the hands of a dedicated tank character; it should be true for just about every damn dropsuit out there too! Finally, matchmaking plays a large role in the creation of "NERF OP" threads. Players who can use Tanks should be paired with players who can use Tanks. Heavies against Heavies. Squads against squads. You can swap suits mid-game, but the matchmaking system should take ALL of a players specializations into account to make both teams as balanced as the available queued players allow for. When teams are balanced, good games are had, and since matchmaking is for pub games, that's all that matters. Pubstomps are horrible and what drive players to quit. TL;DR and recap: Basic heavy suits should require something like: Dropsuit Command III [rank 1] -> Light Dropsuit Operation III [rank 2] -> Medium Dropsuit Operation III [rank 2] -> Heavy Dropsuit Operation [rank 3] Heavy suits can then be balanced as a more specialized role. Matchmaking needs to be fixed. Thoughts appreciated.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 59	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:27:00 - [14] - Quote If anything, heavies should be made more dependant on their squad, not less. and No, a squad of heavies isn't what I mean.
Comissar Skelus Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 19	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:30:00 - [15] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: If anything, heavies should be made more dependant on their squad, not less. and No, a squad of heavies isn't what I mean. A squad of heavies and a logi.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 59	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:32:00 - [16] - Quote Comissar Skelus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If anything, heavies should be made more dependant on their squad, not less. and No, a squad of heavies isn't what I mean. A squad of heavies and a logi. lolno I'm personally thinking more along the lines of 1 heavy, 2 logi, 2 assault and a scout
ugg reset ZionTCD Legacy Rising 249	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:34:00 - [17] - Quote Run with another heavy. not to many light weapons that can drop two with one mag.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1434	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:36:00 - [18] - Quote ugg reset wrote: Run with another heavy. not to many light weapons that can drop two with one mag. I can drop 2 bad heavies
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:44:00 - [19] - Quote ugg reset wrote: Run with another heavy. not to many light weapons that can drop two with one mag. My militia AR disagrees. Heavies need a small arms (light/sidearm) resistance buff, but not before they become the specialized platform they're supposed to be in terms of skill training.
ugg reset ZionTCD Legacy Rising 249	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:47:00 - [20] - Quote you can kill 2 heavies with 40 bullets -.- ya I'm calling BS

XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1434	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:47:00 - [21] - Quote J-Lewis wrote: ugg reset wrote: Run with another heavy. not to many light weapons that can drop two with one mag. My militia AR disagrees. Heavies need a small arms (light/sidearm) resistance buff, but not before they become the specialized platform they're supposed to be in terms of skill training. a militia AR killing 2 heavies they were very bad heavies then
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:48:00 - [22] - Quote XxWarlordxX97 wrote: J-Lewis wrote: ugg reset wrote: Run with another heavy. not to many light weapons that can drop two with one mag. My militia AR disagrees. Heavies need a small arms (light/sidearm) resistance buff, but not before they become the specialized platform they're supposed to be in terms of skill training. a militia AR killing 2 heavies they were very bad heavies then Bad militia heavies
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1434	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:50:00 - [23] - Quote J-Lewis wrote: XxWarlordxX97 wrote: J-Lewis wrote: ugg reset wrote: Run with another heavy. not to many light weapons that can drop two with one mag. My militia AR disagrees. Heavies need a small arms (light/sidearm) resistance buff, but not before they become the specialized platform they're supposed to be in terms of skill training. a militia AR killing 2 heavies they were very bad heavies then Bad militia heavies Militia forge gun heavies they had it coming
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.04.12 19:54:00 - [24] - Quote XxWarlordxX97 wrote: J-Lewis wrote: XxWarlordxX97 wrote: J-Lewis wrote: ugg reset wrote: Run with another heavy. not to many light weapons that can drop two with one mag. My militia AR disagrees. Heavies need a small arms (light/sidearm) resistance buff, but not before they become the specialized platform they're supposed to be in terms of skill training. a militia AR killing 2 heavies they were very bad heavies then Bad militia heavies Militia forge gun heavies they had it coming Yep, but as I wrote in my text wall on the first page, this is what I have a problem with. There shouldn't be militia gear, we should have a training simulator instead.
Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 75	Posted - 2013.04.12 20:13:00 - [25] - Quote heavy is far from useless but no way assault suits should be able to get 500 shields. dont heavies have 500? thats crazy. they need to fix it.
Solarisjock One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 27	Posted - 2013.04.12 20:14:00 - [26] - Quote run a heavy witt three logi using the triage repper, really funny how long you can stand in the middle of the street with the HMG blazing away
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 59	Posted - 2013.04.12 20:18:00 - [27] - Quote What happens when your three logi get sniped?
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 447	Posted - 2013.04.12 20:18:00 - [28] - Quote Solarisjock wrote: run a heavy witt three logi using the triage repper, really funny how long you can stand in the middle of the street with the HMG blazing away Working as intended.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 141	Posted - 2013.04.12 20:55:00 - [29] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Solarisjock wrote: run a heavy witt three logi using the triage repper, really funny how long you can stand in the middle of the street with the HMG blazing away Working as intended. On a side note... HEAVYS NEED a buff to their adv/ proto suits. At LEAST 3 lows for proto... I'd rather have the third low than the 3rd high
Average Joe81 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2013.04.12 21:10:00 - [30] - Quote Well back to another topic... oso tiburon wrote: ...my broadside has the range of a slingshot... If anything I think the range needs to be nerfed. In the map with the giant grinders and the really tall tower in the center, I once got killed by a single heavy who was half way across the grinder(we were on top). we both started shooting at the same time and we were aimed in at each other before we started shooting( i know he was because his first shots hit). I dropped him to around 60% armor before he died and he had already killed two of my other teammates up there before i spawned in. In fact, every thing has seemed to have started to have a larger range, even shotguns and sniper(which now can reach from their bases). I actually started thinking this was a bug at one point but then i decided why should i give a **** and decided to care about somewhat more important things.



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