Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3367
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sorry this one was well over due and I kept forgetting to post this one. However I am feeling generous and letting you guys hop on despite its lateness. Once again CCP Nullarbor was asking the IRC folk on what we thought about multiple grenade slots. Views where wide and varied citing other needs such as UI improvement with the grenades (IE one icon for AV another for flux)
Aside from that, as part of the community outreach, I am extended this subject to you folks on the forums. Argue among yourselves on why its a cool/bad idea, scenarios, if/when, if/then, costs, risk vs rewards, conditions, cons, pros, how, when, interfacing, drawbacks... those sort of things.
Basically if you where in charge of designing the ability for drop suits to have multiple grenade slots, how would you design it or not design it.
Remember CCP Nullarbor only asked about the idea. He gave no indication of how/if/what/should or anything that would indicate on how it will work or even be used with the current system so it's all up to you guys to deliberate and debate on that.
I will point this thread to CCP Nullarbor when I see him again.
|
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Could be a good idea, but instead of having a slot, one for each type of grenade, why not have three grenade slots, and have each grenade take a slot each (e.g. 3 flux grenades take 3 slots, or you can have 1 flux, 1 AV, 1 locus). It would make more sense than being able to carry 5 or 6 grenades at once.
Adds more flexibility without particularly adding more firepower. Fitting costs would then need to be balanced, as well as something worked out with how to resupply, but IMO it'd be better than having a set of AV grenades AND a set of flux grenades. |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
390
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
it's a grenade fest as it is, I hear we are losing grenade restock from hives? oms will see an increase in people switching suits to get their ammo back.
the grenade count atm is great, so at most I would say if there was to be multi nade slots, divide the current count by the amount of slots implimented. I would say no more than 4, but carrying 4 nades would need to be specc'd into and 2 should be the default. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
652
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
I was thinking about this recently.
There is certainly a good rationale for it, provided it is balanced.
I could even see a subset of specialized suits designed for it:
Saboteur (Light) - One Sidearm, One High, One Low, One Equipment, Three Grenades Engineer (Medium) - One Sidearm, One High, One Low, Three Equipment, Two Grenades Juggernaut (Heavy) - One Light, One Sidearm, One High, Two Low, Three Grenades
The UI piece is very important, too. |
dust badger
BetaMax. CRONOS.
295
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
i think we should get rid of the grenade slot and class them as equipment like Remote explosives
but then again this will mess up heavies as it will be unfair to give them an equipment slot |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
652
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:it's a grenade fest as it is.
It hasn't been a grenade fest since the timers went back up to 4 seconds from two seconds.
Grenades are fine. Like most of the weapons, they are actually UP compared to RL. |
Kane Brackman
Anonymous Killers Mercenary Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Would be an interesting idea, best way to implement in my opinion would be add grenades to the weapon wheel and when you select it you can throw it using the grenade throw button. I would hate it if they just made it a weapon that I would have to select it then be able to throw like some games do. As some one pointed out a new grenade icon for each version would have to be made. |
Alcare Xavier Golden
DUST University Ivy League
138
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have so many copies of setups where the only difference is the grenades...all to so I can adjust to the degree of vehicle usage in a match...so yeah a means to set a standard package where I can combine a standard set of grenades would be awsome...a quick switch would be awsome, but can't imagine how that would work right now... |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3367
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
As for my thoughts.
1 UI improvements to indicate the multiple grenade types a semi-easy to use button in swapping them (item wheel would suffice or reload+swap)
2 Use a 'OR' Fitting system, Thus a grenade could fit into a grenade slot OR an equipment slot. However equipment cannot fit into grenade slots.
3. Balance the rate of resupply, cost of resupply, default carry amounts, and delay in auto swapping grenades, and fitting (make them slightly harder to fit to prevent logis from being a grenade spammer from hell.)
4. We need far more many grenades from ewar to other various odd damage types (sticky nades anyone?) |
Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:it's a grenade fest as it is, I hear we are losing grenade restock from hives? oms will see an increase in people switching suits to get their ammo back.
Losing grenade restock from nano hives? Whatever will the mass driver 'users' do? |
|
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
478
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would be interested in having multiple grenade slots and use the weapon/equipment selection process to set the currently active grenade.
My son has been asking for a grenadier specialist suit for months. |
Yosef Autaal
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
75
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
ability to carry mutliple grenade types would be brilliant.
Why not have a system of being able to put grenades into equipment slots aswell i think this will add alot of diveristy to fits without having to rethink suit layouts.
my reasoning for this is at moment we have side, light and heavy weapon slots and eacg weapon is designed for there slot and a role fitting that slot but the weapon is available for use in weapon slots of bigger size if a player chooses to fit a heavy suit with a scrambler pistol in there heavy slot then that is there option, give a similar option to grenades.
with grenades avilable to be added to equipment slots it adds a whole range of option, with assualt suits taking flux and At grenades to attack vehicles but loosing there nano hive to keep resupplying and spamming those grenades
|
Val'herik Dorn
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
400
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
I believe the suits currently have differing grenade slots as is but no grenades to fill them with just the standard one type grenades.
I think using that mechanic would work. Light med and heavy nades would be cool.
Maybe suits could then have different combos hased on those slots but being able to carry like three types of nades is a tad silly...
If you give my scout two slots I'd go flux av and harvest tears especially with the plasma cannon coming... |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
123
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
I don't know if I like the idea of multiple grenade slots, I like I can get grenades from nanohives, definately hope that doesn't go away.
But I think multiple grenade slots will be a nerf to AV and Vehicles. Most people will probably carry AP grenades, if there are multi slots then people will pick up AV grenades, so it will nerf AV by making it less likely people will spawn only as AV, corps will just have everyone use their alt grenades.
I see it as a vehicle nerf since everyone will have AV grenades. |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
390
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Captain-Awesome wrote:it's a grenade fest as it is. It hasn't been a grenade fest since the timers went back up to 4 seconds from two seconds. Grenades are fine. Like most of the weapons, they are actually UP compared to RL.
grenades are ok now because people only have 2 nades and use hives to spam it. Giving us 1 extra grenade increases it so much more.
|
Yani Nabari
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
doesn't one level of grenadier grant 3 grenades? |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
453
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why do we keep moving towards creating an Army of One?
No need for multiple grenade slots unless you are giving up weapon slots in exchange an i mean BOTH primary and secondary.
Also flux nades are spamming in competitive matches because there is no 2s timer.
If everyone can carry multiple nades, then its going to be rapid team flux, followed by staggered m1 or proto locus nades for every CQC and breach situation. (In fact you'd be an idiot to do anything else).
|
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
390
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yani Nabari wrote:doesn't one level of grenadier grant 3 grenades?
only makes it worse. :) my main gripe is the nade count we get, as long as that is kept the same, I don't mind, or foresake a sidearm |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
783
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
It should increase with tier, at PRO heavies should be able to have 3 different grenade slots |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
135
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well the only grenades I know that have only 2 from equipping them is the Fused Locus Grenade from the Merc Pack (the only CONTACT grenade left for AURUM, since the ISK thukkers left the market) and the Militia grenade.
IF nano-hives stop giving grenades, then I think it is a fair counter that vehicles will require FINITE amounts of fuel and ammo.... or was CCP planning something like one guy throws the non-existent stasis web grenade to slow the vehicle down - while waiting and praying for someone on their team that has AV which can do more than scratch the paint job.
Then again, every fat suit and try hard knows to go after the guy with AV because they generally can't double stack without giving up something and tend to give the enemy more ISK at the end of the game because they killed someone in a suit with proto AV. However if I could at least equip basic level frag with proto AV I could maybe scatter the wall of 4 heavies/2 logi's & 2 other suit types to at least let me get close enough to one of the 4 tanks the enemy regular needs on the fishbowl ambush map.
Will CCP do it, probably, but will they do it right probably not.
Why not currently, well they would have to increase the PG/CPU for all suits. Who knows what will happen on the day of the Great Respec. |
|
Protoman Is God
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Grenades should be able to be carried as equipment. Therefore you should be able to run with both infantry and flux grenades CPU/PG permitting. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
453
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Protoman Is God wrote:Grenades should be able to be carried as equipment. Therefore you should be able to run with both infantry and flux grenades CPU/PG permitting.
Heavies would get no grenades then, unless you make it that heavies are the only ones that get quick toss nade option maybe.
If you make nades an equipment and eliminate the dedicated nade slot do they get rid of quick toss, or do they keep quick toss available by allowing you to spec one nade slot in the quick toss nade slot while other nades can go into equipment slot?
because then im carrying flux as equipment and quick tossing m1 locus or fused locus and prove to the world that like xerxes; protoman is not a god when i make him bleed |
Ignoble Son
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
136
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 01:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
I don't think that allowing grenades to be, also, equipped to equipment slots is going to go over as well as everyone is thinking it will.
Let's really see who benifits from this:
Heavy: nothing here.
Assault: only one equipment slot. Can't carry extra grenades because would then have no extra ammo. Not on your life at least not for grenades.
Scout-I: same as the assault. No effin way.
Scout-II: currently, when I'm not runing logi scout (needle & tool) I have three other fits I use, as far as equipment goes anyway:
GÇó gauged uplink/nano hive GÇó remote explosives/gauged nano hive GÇó proximity mines/gauged nano hive (this fit is also run with AV grenades)
Now, each of the above have a very specialized use/timing on the battle field. Could I replace one of the three items, that isn't a nano hive, with Grenada? Yes. Will it be as effective as the other three fittings? I highly doubt it. Also, if I am not running one of those specialized fittings, why would I be runnig this grenade fitting instead of my bread and butter logi fit? The answer: there is no reason.
Logistic: see scout-II
So what you have effectively accomplished with all of this is:
GÇó Alienated two suit classes GÇó Given one and a half suit classes a practically useless ability.
You know what would be useful to be able to put in an equipment slot? A packed/broken down version of any weapon:
GÇó Two sidearms could be fitted into one equipment slot. GÇó One light weapon to one equipment slot GÇó One heavy weapon to two equipment slots
These weapons would have an unpacking/assembly time, perhaps ten second.
The let's say AV is needed on you squad. You are an assault or a heavy or scout type-I. You communicate to a logi on your squad, who happens to be carrying a packed AV weapon. He then begins to assemble the weapon. He then exchanges the weapon with your current weapon and packs you weapon into one of his equipment slots.
Let's say that a heavy is exchanging a light heavy weapon for a light weapon. Well the logi doesn't have enough equipment slots to repack to new weapon. Then he just drops it on the ground. The item stays there for a little while, and is able to be picked up by anyone willing to exchange there weapon for it. You could get some really cool battle field dynamics going on with this. Imagine if you could keep the weapons you picked up.
Anyway, I've got off on a bit of a tangent here. My point is that grenades in equipment slots is not the way to go here.
I like the idea of having three grenade slots into which a single grenade each could be fit. If what is going on here is that people are desiring the ability to carry more grenades (i.e. three locus, three flux) then perhaps skilling in to the grenade skill could allow each of the three slots to carry an additional grenade, up to three each. You could even allow each slot to be filled with more than one type of grenade, this could show through the in game active weapon selection wheel as an amount available for each type of grenade, where as, in the dropsuit fittings menu it could show one grenade slot with one third flux icon, one third AV icon, one third locus icon.
This is really the only way I see this working well. |
Logi Bro
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
1112
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 01:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nonononononononon, no, no, no......no.
Multiple grenade slots just means AV is buggered even more than it already is. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1196
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 02:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think it could be easily implemented, but I don't see the advantages of one of those fits, aside from combining flux grenades with sleek locus grenades. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3369
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 02:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
I welcome suits with multiple grenade slots, as long as they have the right balancing (like no light slot or something, maybe 2 sidearm slots, and low modules). AV grenades would probably have to be nerfed as well. Being able to cycle through grenades need to be possible for those suits to really work, and I have a solution for that: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67990&find=unread
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:It does not make sense to dedicate an entire controller button to grenades since players may not even have grenades on their fitting, making the button potentially wasted when there are much better uses for it. It would be better if the grenade button was changed to become a dedicated equipment button, and grenades button.
Make weapons and equipment on separate buttons. Tapping R2 should switch weapons, and tapping L2 for cycling between both grenades and equipment.
The benefits would be great for logistics players, because they could then be able to tap the L2 button to cycle through their equipment instead of having to open the wheel (which can be a pain in a many situations).
It would also open the door for new dropsuits in the future with multiple grenade slots, because being able to cycle through them would allow you to choose which one you want.
Most dropsuits only have one equipment slot (and heavies habe none), so switching to grenades would still be pretty fast.
One other change would have to be made though; you would have to tap (or hold to cook) R1 after selecting a grenade to actually use it.
One button (R2) to cycle weapons, another (L2) to cycle grenades and equipment; MAG had it like that, and it works pretty well for managing lots of items. You can still keep the wheels (hold R2 for weapon wheel, hold L2 for item wheel), though this would make switching to exactly what you want so fast that wheels would be obsolete.
Yes I know controller remapping is coming, but I doubt it will provide such a level of control that we will be able to separate equipment from the item wheel, merge grenade and equipment buttons, and have tap-cycle functionality. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
156
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 02:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
I say if you want multiple grenades, make them an equipment and need to be selected to throw (MAG anyone? IMO, it worked perfectly fine there).
This does mean Heavies get an equipment slot...but it would be a limited equipment slot (like how High-slots work in EVE...you can only fit turrets or missile bays if you have the right high-slot for it) that only allows grenades. Pretty much, this would make all the equipment "typed"; REs and grenades are "explosives", Nanohives, Nanite Injectors, Shield Rechargers, and Repair Tools are the "logi" equipment, and the other things (Scanners, Drop Uplinks, Cloaks and whatever else they add in) are some other category (support?), and to equip a certain equipment you need to have a typed-equipment slot available. Scouts would have a "support" type-slot an an explosives type-slot, with two equipment slots, eventually gaining more equipment slots and another "support" type-slot Assault would have two "explosives" and two "logi" type-slots, but start with two equipment slots and gain more equip and "explosives" slots at higher suit-tiers. Logis would have three "logi", an "explosive" and a "support" type-slot, with three equipment slots, gaining another "logi" and more equipment eventually. Heavies would get one "explosives" type-slot, with one equipment slot, no upgrades. And yes, this is dependent only on what we have for dropsuits now...it may be that Minmatar Heavies have equipment slots; we don't know.
Complicated? Yeah, maybe...but then again its not much more than the current system, just sub-tiered... |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
841
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 03:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=576187#post576187
I put this into Type III Assault suit suggestion. A while ago though, and I'm sure there was a similar thread that predates that one. |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
202
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 03:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Im favoring the grenade bay idea. get volume of space and fill it up with what ever you want. |
Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 03:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:I believe the suits currently have differing grenade slots as is but no grenades to fill them with just the standard one type grenades.
I think using that mechanic would work. Light med and heavy nades would be cool.
Maybe suits could then have different combos hased on those slots but being able to carry like three types of nades is a tad silly...
If you give my scout two slots I'd go flux av and harvest tears especially with the plasma cannon coming...
Moving on with this idea it could work like the drone bay does in eve. Each grenade takes a certain amount of space and each suit then has a certain amount of space for grenades. Then dividing it up into militia, basic, adv, pro it could be that militia take more space than basic but as you reach higher tier grenades they'll also slowly take more space. (Higher tier dropsuits will then also have slightly more room) This way you can either go for "a lot" of low tier grenades or fewer more powerful. Also AV grenades can be made to take up more space than flux and locus so tanks won't get AV spammed...... |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |