DUST Search - [PC] Strategic Map of Molden Heath

Vaerana Myshtana wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

DUST University has over 700 members and is active in all time zones. We would probably want to have 3 or 4 Planetary Conquest fights per day at different times so that all our members have access. This would probably require 3 permanent districts to produce enough clones to support this. Students burn through a lot of clones.

I just donGÇÖt think that Hrober V with 5 districts would be big enough. Also, Hrober V has 3 moons, making it more valuable than Hrober VIII which only has 1 moon.

Hedaleolfarber III would also be a viable option. With 12 districts it is too big for just the training Corps, unless a third one joined us, so we would be sharing the planet with at least 1 non training Corp. Now one possibility is that a few of the big corps could each take a district on Hedaleolfarber III and then train their new players by attacking our training districts. This would provide a nice supply of battles and give us some verity.

Good points.

Personally, I lean towards Hedaleo(*cough) because in a way it's even more distant from the action. I think that because Hrober has 4 moons around PC planets, it is more valuable to mixed EVE/Dust corps and so is more likely to be viewed as somewhere between a minipocket and a midpocket. In other words, I can see a small, hungry corp going for total domination of the whole system.

So, if each college had three districts, then there would be six left over. Potentially, that could support another college or something.

It occurs to me that in EVE, there are three main "colleges"- EVE University, Red-vs.-Blue, and Agony Unleashed. Each provides a different type of service. (Yes, I know education is a sideline for Agony, but they are famous for it.)

EVE University offers a general education.
RvB offers basic, hisec PVP experience.
Agony offers hardcore, advanced PVP in nullsec.

We need to start thinking about the niches in Dust and how different schools can meet those needs.

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NIKIA BETHUNE Ill Omens EoN. 61	Posted - 2013.04.08 07:27:00 - [31] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: slap26 wrote: NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: We are talking about may 6th and the little guys stand no chance. Little guys could hire somebody to take some land for them and establish a foothold I happen to know of a strong mercenary alliance tbh not gonna play out that way. Do the maths on how much hiring mercs will cost in clones, gear + profit and realise the large zerg corps like PRO are more likely to meet ur demands of asking price than the little guy who barely has any ISK to pay u I'm sure he was talking about getting payed eve side. Because a small corp can't keep up with the costs of war noway they can keep paying mercs day after day dust side so I'm sure he ment eve side^^
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2702	Posted - 2013.04.08 11:48:00 - [32] - Quote NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: slap26 wrote: NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: We are talking about may 6th and the little guys stand no chance. Little guys could hire somebody to take some land for them and establish a foothold I happen to know of a strong mercenary alliance tbh not gonna play out that way. Do the maths on how much hiring mercs will cost in clones, gear + profit and realise the large zerg corps like PRO are more likely to meet ur demands of asking price than the little guy who barely has any ISK to pay u I'm sure he was talking about getting payed eve side. Because a small corp can't keep up with the costs of war noway they can keep paying mercs day after day dust side so I'm sure he ment eve side^^ yea but no transfers so EVE side payment does nothing for the mercs atm to cover loss of gear an such being a merc is gonna be expensive on the merc grp themselves if they have to fund their own merc duties
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 651	Posted - 2013.04.08 12:16:00 - [33] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Great work. thanks dude. Do you mind me using your file in an article for dust-france website ? Certainement, monsieur.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 652	Posted - 2013.04.08 12:28:00 - [34] - Quote NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: Yeah I think this will be a war for the big boys I really doesn't see a place for the small people not at all they are welcome to try but I only see them getting caught in the middle of the bigger corps wars. From my perspective (I wrote on this elsewhere), there are three "sizes" of pockets. The "Sharks" and "Minnows" will aim for the minipockets, the "Monsters" will aim for midpockets, and the "Kaijus" will aim for the mega pockets. Minipockets: Altbrard - 14 Districts (2 jumps to nearest other planet) Hedaleo... - 12 Districts (3 jumps) Hrober - 15 districts / 2 planets (3 jumps) Midpockets: Bosena & Oddelulf - 37 Districts (2 jumps to nearest other pocket) Sakulda - 29 Districts (3 jumps) Klingt - 27 Districts (2 jumps) Megapockets: Audesder to Kadlina - 68 Districts (2 jumps to nearest other pocket) Osvetur to Meildolf - 43 Districts (2 jumps)
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1282	Posted - 2013.04.08 15:22:00 - [35] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Great work. thanks dude. Do you mind me using your file in an article for dust-france website ? Certainement, monsieur. thanks dude ;)
charlesnette dalari Creative Killers 176	Posted - 2013.04.08 16:25:00 - [36] - Quote Another useful map of the area which also tells you where the ice belts are (this dotlan map also good for navigation in eve) which are very important EVE side of things as well as much more info to help planning. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 656	Posted - 2013.04.08 16:26:00 - [37] - Quote charlesnette dalari wrote: Another useful map of the area which also tells you where the ice belts are (this dotlan map also good for navigation in eve) which are very important EVE side of things as well as much more info to help planning. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath I made a LOT of use of those yesterday.
charlesnette dalari Creative Killers 176	Posted - 2013.04.08 16:43:00 - [38] - Quote Some very interesting possibilities here especially when you check things out in dotlan... to bad my eve toon is living 17 jumps away and none of my PI planets are anywhere close to here. Guess it might be time to move them :-)
rebecca watson Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 48	Posted - 2013.04.08 17:56:00 - [39] - Quote One question I still have is this: Who stands a better chance in all of this PC business?: One large corp (competent or not....) or An alliance made up of smaller corps (competent or not...) ???
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 659	Posted - 2013.04.08 18:22:00 - [40] - Quote rebecca watson wrote: One question I still have is this: Who stands a better chance in all of this PC business?: One large corp (competent or not....) or An alliance made up of smaller corps (competent or not...) ??? Well, I don't think anybody who is totally incompetent is going to have much of a chance. Overall, the largest corps/alliances will do better in that they can take and hold more territory and generate more ISK. However, the average ability (not just shooty, but tactics, teamwork, etc.) of the corps will determine their relative success. Thus, lets say that both Kaiju Allied National Enterprises (KANE) and the Enclave of Notoriously Accurate Kaijus (ENAK) both have 1000 members. If ENAK has a W/L of 1.5 and KANE has a 1.3, then we can expect ENAK to have a few more districts than KANE. However, if KANE has a 2.0 and ENAK has a 0.5, then KANE is likely to control a lot more territory. The same holds true for smaller corps. A 24-member corp might have a shot at taking and holding a small number of districts if it has a good W/L, but not if it has a bad one. The reality is that PC will likely require a minimum of 24 players in the same timezone to have a shot at being successful. I'm not happy about it, but it's basically just the way it is. Even then, those players will all need to be well-coodinated (practice together) and at least moderately skilled at the gun game.

Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 260	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:09:00 - [41] - Quote If say DUST University and BojoGÇÖs School of the Trades took control of Hrober VIII (3 permanent districts each and 4 contentiously contested training zones), then Hrober V (5 districts) would be small and isolated, making it perfect for small Corporations to try their hand at PC, and they could also attack the training districts on Hrober VIII to get used to Friendly Fire and such. This is just idle thoughts on my part. I have not discussed this with the other Directors of D-Uni yet. Would this be a good setup to help small Corps get a foothold and try PC without getting stomped by the big boys? It would make the whole Hrober system into a sort of training ground, or reserve. It should be noted that once DUST University gets our districts setup, wherever we finally decide to locate, we will be publicly announcing which of our Districts we consider our Campos (probably 3 districts) and all of our other districts will be considered training grounds. The importance of the distinction being that we will defend our Campos districts with the best available players (possibly guests from other corps) while our training districts will be defended by DUST University members for training purposes.
rebecca watson Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 48	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:16:00 - [42] - Quote I guess what I'm trying to ask is this: Is there a mechanic that will favor one side over the other: 200 member corp with x skill level vs. 200 member alliance made up of half-a-dozen corps with the same x skill level
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 661	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:18:00 - [43] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: If say DUST University and BojoGÇÖs School of the Trades took control of Hrober VIII (3 permanent districts each and 4 contentiously contested training zones), then Hrober V (5 districts) would be small and isolated, making it perfect for small Corporations to try their hand at PC, and they could also attack the training districts on Hrober VIII to get used to Friendly Fire and such. If it wound up being just us two, maybe Hrober V might be better. That would enable us to each hold one district as a campus and leave the other three as the training grounds. That would certainly reinforce the neutrality. That Hrober VIII would be potentially open for other corps, meaning that we would have as many as ten other corps in system to fight against if we needed them. Of course, that would leave us with no backup campus. Hmm... Is there a third college around here?
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 661	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:27:00 - [44] - Quote rebecca watson wrote: I guess what I'm trying to ask is this: Is there a mechanic that will favor one side over the other: 200 member corp with x skill level vs. 200 member alliance made up of half-a-dozen corps with the same x skill level Yes. A well-run corporation will always be tighter than a well-run alliance. There are very good reasons to spend 1,000,000,000 ISK on starting an alliance, but those usually have to do with POS management or different roles. Not to mention the 2,000,000 ISK per month per corp maintenance fee from CONCORD. Since you are talking about all of the corps in the alliance as Dust corps, there is, AFAIK, no advantage (in terms of game mechanics) to dividing yourselves up. Indeed, depending on how attack warnings are sent- corp only or alliance-wide, you may be gimping your ability to gather defenders because 80% of your alliance members did not see the memo. If you want to be in an alliance, have one DUST corp and the rest be EVE corps. Your EVE peeps can (last I heard) provide OBs and reap the rewards of your PC sovereignty, but you are not mucking up the chain-of-command on the Dust side. -- If on the other hand, you are talking about a "coalition" as opposed to an alliance recognized by the game mechanics... Don't bother. Coalitions generally serve some purpose in the metagame- politics, mutual goals, etc.. Coalitions do not have any effect on the game mechanics so you have to do a lot of things the hard way.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 897	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:28:00 - [45] - Quote Just a word to the wise educated people among you, Rooks and Kings live in Molden Heath. Don't expect any EVE side support for anything.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 837	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:30:00 - [46] - Quote I would also like to look at the economic side of things. Hrober system has 4 PC moons, 7 belts. It takes up about the same traffic as Haleofarber but less NPC kills by the looks. I don't know what to make of NPC kills, as in how much floating NPC wreckage is worth, so it may not be a factor of consideration for salvagers. I like the looks of Hrober but I foresee that any small corp will try and take it first, as Vaerana stated, the sharks and minnows.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 661	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:47:00 - [47] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Just a word to the wise educated people among you, Rooks and Kings live in Molden Heath. Don't expect any EVE side support for anything. Well, pirates will be pirates. That's another good reason not to go with Hrober. Flying to Hrober means going through the pirate capital of Molden Heath, Bosena: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath/Bosena#kills24 Admittedly, there are plenty of systems with more than 72 player ships killed and 16 player pods killed. But anyone who wants EVE-side support would be wise to pay attention to the chokepoints that the pirates like.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 1085	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:51:00 - [48] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Just a word to the wise educated people among you, Rooks and Kings live in Molden Heath. Don't expect any EVE side support for anything. Well, pirates will be pirates. That's another good reason not to go with Hrober. Flying to Hrober means going through the pirate capital of Molden Heath, Bosena: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath/Bosena#kills24 Admittedly, there are plenty of systems with more than 72 player ships killed and 16 player pods killed. But anyone who wants EVE-side support would be wise to pay attention to the chokepoints that the pirates like. what are the other major choke points in the region?, for us uneducated mercs who don't have our heads in the stars
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 661	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:59:00 - [49] - Quote gbghg wrote: Vaerana Myshtana wrote: That's another good reason not to go with Hrober. Flying to Hrober means going through the pirate capital of Molden Heath, Bosena... anyone who wants EVE-side support would be wise to pay attention to the chokepoints that the pirates like. what are the other major choke points in the region?, for us uneducated mercs who don't have our heads in the stars Based on recent activity (the Dotlan map), none. Bosena is a big target because it's directly adjacent to the hisec regional trade hub, so people are always going into Teonusude and then back into lowsec from there. Often those people are carrying valuable cargo. If an alliance like HARK really wanted to interdict people in Molden, I would say that Aedald, Egbinger, Illamur, and Osvetur are the other systems where they could easily set traps for people. Indeed, the HARK killboard shows that they like Aedald and Egbinger: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Rooks_and_Kings/kills
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 837	Posted - 2013.04.08 22:01:00 - [50] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Just a word to the wise educated people among you, Rooks and Kings live in Molden Heath. Don't expect any EVE side support for anything. Well, pirates will be pirates. That's another good reason not to go with Hrober. Flying to Hrober means going through the pirate capital of Molden Heath, Bosena: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath/Bosena#kills24 Admittedly, there are plenty of systems with more than 72 player ships killed and 16 player pods killed. But anyone who wants EVE-side support would be wise to pay attention to the chokepoints that the pirates like. Vaerana it's all good, we just need a silver tongued fellow like myself. But I'll let you pull any triggers and where to point the gun, but never the less, I spent a good 7 odd years on a schooner, racketeering and plundering + learning sea shanties.

Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1195	Posted - 2013.04.08 23:04:00 - [51] - Quote Beware the infoninjas at BSotT! Awesome job, btw.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2705	Posted - 2013.04.09 02:29:00 - [52] - Quote Question: EVE nub here but on ur map http://twitter.yfrog.com/z/h7qvfhzhj Gonheim to Half is missing a line that is present on Dotlan http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath#temperate dunno if u missed it or im missing something :s
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 260	Posted - 2013.04.09 11:49:00 - [53] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: If say DUST University and BojoGÇÖs School of the Trades took control of Hrober VIII (3 permanent districts each and 4 contentiously contested training zones), then Hrober V (5 districts) would be small and isolated, making it perfect for small Corporations to try their hand at PC, and they could also attack the training districts on Hrober VIII to get used to Friendly Fire and such. If it wound up being just us two, maybe Hrober V might be better. That would enable us to each hold one district as a campus and leave the other three as the training grounds. That would certainly reinforce the neutrality. That Hrober VIII would be potentially open for other corps, meaning that we would have as many as ten other corps in system to fight against if we needed them. Of course, that would leave us with no backup campus. Hmm... Is there a third college around here? DUST University has over 700 members and is active in all time zones. We would probably want to have 3 or 4 Planetary Conquest fights per day at different times so that all our members have access. This would probably require 3 permanent districts to produce enough clones to support this. Students burn through a lot of clones. I just donGÇÖt think that Hrober V with 5 districts would be big enough. Also, Hrober V has 3 moons, making it more valuable than Hrober VIII which only has 1 moon. Hedaleolfarber III would also be a viable option. With 12 districts it is too big for just the training Corps, unless a third one joined us, so we would be sharing the planet with at least 1 non training Corp. Now one possibility is that a few of the big corps could each take a district on Hedaleolfarber III and then train their new players by attacking our training districts. This would provide a nice supply of battles and give us some verity.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 665	Posted - 2013.04.09 11:57:00 - [54] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Question: EVE nub here but on ur map http://twitter.yfrog.com/z/h7qvfhzhj Gonheim to Half is missing a line that is present on Dotlan http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath#temperate dunno if u missed it or im missing something :s Oh! Good catch! I will fix it in the next iteration. Thanks!
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 665	Posted - 2013.04.09 12:08:00 - [55] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: DUST University has over 700 members and is active in all time zones. We would probably want to have 3 or 4 Planetary Conquest fights per day at different times so that all our members have access. This would probably require 3 permanent districts to produce enough clones to support this. Students burn through a lot of clones. I just donGÇÖt think that Hrober V with 5 districts would be big enough. Also, Hrober V has 3 moons, making it more valuable than Hrober VIII which only has 1 moon. Hedaleolfarber III would also be a viable option. With 12 districts it is too big for just the training Corps, unless a third one joined us, so we would be sharing the planet with at least 1 non training Corp. Now one possibility is that a few of the big corps could each take a district on Hedaleolfarber III and then train their new players by attacking our training districts. This would provide a nice supply of battles and give us some verity. Good points. Personally, I lean towards Hedaleo(*cough) because in a way it's even more distant from the action. I think that because Hrober has 4 moons around PC planets, it is more valuable to mixed EVE/Dust corps and so is more likely to be viewed as somewhere between a minipocket and a midpocket. In other words, I can see a small, hungry corp going for total domination of the whole system. So, if each college had three districts, then there would be six left over. Potentially, that could support another college or something. It occurs to me that in EVE, there are three main "colleges"- EVE University, Red-vs.-Blue, and Agony Unleashed. Each provides a different type of service. (Yes, I know education is a sideline for Agony, but they are famous for it.) EVE University offers a general education. RvB offers basic, hisec PVP experience. Agony offers hardcore, advanced PVP in nullsec. We need to start thinking about the niches in Dust and how different schools can meet those needs.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 260	Posted - 2013.04.09 12:14:00 - [56] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Just a word to the wise educated people among you, Rooks and Kings live in Molden Heath. Don't expect any EVE side support for anything. Rooks and Kings arenGÇÖt the only ones you will have to wary about. Pirates from every corner of the galaxy will be converging on Molden Heath hoping to get some easy kills on new players attempting to do Orbital Bombardment. I have been factoring this into my thinking from the start. I expect that I will probably have to give a Low Sec survival course to Ivy LeagueGÇÖs Orbital Bombardment pilots. EVE side I am Renier Gaden. While my stats arenGÇÖt as impressive as a lot of those Rooks and Kings pilots I have spent a lot of time living in Low Sec and NPC Null Sec, so I have plenty of experience with surviving in pirate infested space. It sounds like Bojo may have a few connections on his side as well. I think the training Corps will manage to get some OB support. The trick is to not be shiny and juicy enough to attract the big fish, while being prepared to deal with the small fish. If we are sticking to 1 system, then we donGÇÖt have to contend with gate camps except when brining in supplies, and since there are no interdiction bubbles in Low Sec, that can be managed.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 260	Posted - 2013.04.09 12:39:00 - [57] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: DUST University has over 700 members and is active in all time zones. We would probably want to have 3 or 4 Planetary Conquest fights per day at different times so that all our members have access. This would probably require 3 permanent districts to produce enough clones to support this. Students burn through a lot of clones. I just donGÇÖt think that Hrober V with 5 districts would be big enough. Also, Hrober V has 3 moons, making it more valuable than Hrober VIII which only has 1 moon. Hedaleolfarber III would also be a viable option. With 12 districts it is too big for just the training Corps, unless a third one joined us, so we would be sharing the planet with at least 1 non training Corp. Now one possibility is that a few of the big corps could each take a district on Hedaleolfarber III and then train their new players by attacking our training districts. This would provide a nice supply of battles and give us some verity. Good points. Personally, I lean towards Hedaleo(*cough) because in a way it's even more distant from the action. I think that because Hrober has 4 moons around PC planets, it is more valuable to mixed EVE/Dust corps and so is more likely to be viewed as somewhere between a minipocket and a midpocket. In other words, I can see a small, hungry corp going for total domination of the whole system. So, if each college had three districts, then there would be six left over. Potentially, that could support another college or something. It occurs to me that in EVE, there are three main "colleges"- EVE University, Red-vs.-Blue, and Agony Unleashed. Each provides a different type of service. (Yes, I know education is a sideline for Agony, but they are famous for it.) EVE University offers a general education. RvB offers basic, hisec PVP experience. Agony offers hardcore, advanced PVP in nullsec. We need to start thinking about the niches in Dust and how different schools can meet those needs. You make some good points. You may be right about Hedale-ol-farber III being the better choice. DUST University will definitely fill the general education niche that EVE University fills in EVE, but due to the nature of DUST514 I think we are probably also going to fill the RvB niche as well, or at least 1 half of it. We want to give our members real battlefield experience. Of course if Red Federation and Blue Republic wanted to create a DUST wing and each have a permanent District on Hedale-ol-farber III as well, I would be all for it. They could have one district designated for a daily RvB battle, and they could also battle us over the 4 remaining training districts. In truth I never had any affiliation with EVE University EVE side, but I fought Agony Unleashed in Syndicate space many times, and I knew a few Agony Unleashed alumni. I always had the greatest respect for them. Nothing like having your small battlecruiser fleet swarmed by 20 or 30 cheap cruisers on one of their training roams. They brought some Good Fights!
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 665	Posted - 2013.04.09 12:47:00 - [58] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: In truth I never had any affiliation with EVE University EVE side, but I fought Agony Unleashed in Syndicate space many times, and I knew a few Agony Unleashed alumni. I always had the greatest respect for them. Nothing like having your small battlecruiser fleet swarmed by 20 or 30 cheap cruisers on one of their training roams. They brought some Good Fights! Speaking purely for myself (not for Bojo), I see BSOTT eventually moving into the same kind of training role as Agony. One of their big values seems to be disciplined creativity- try a bunch of creative stuff to see how it works, use your discipline to smack people around with it, then show anyone who wants to learn how you did it. I really respect that. Of course, for BSOTT to get to that level, we really need to get certain people (CoughBojoCough) to invest in microphones.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative 352	Posted - 2013.04.10 17:36:00 - [59] - Quote It would be interesting to see the POCO owners of all of those temerate planets...
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2726	Posted - 2013.04.11 01:23:00 - [60] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: Question: EVE nub here but on ur map http://twitter.yfrog.com/z/h7qvfhzhj Gonheim to Half is missing a line that is present on Dotlan http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath#temperate dunno if u missed it or im missing something :s Oh! Good catch! I will fix it in the next iteration. Thanks! updated yet with fix?



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