DUST Search - "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" for AWOXING

Maken Tosch wrote:

Temba Fusrodah wrote:

Because we have neither Concord nor a way to directly shoot an AWOX player I would like to propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" for players who commit blue on blue homicide during a battle.

I propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" of five (5) minutes be imposed during which time the criminal will be a flashing red target to both teams and his deaths will not count against the clone totals of his contracted team.

During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" the criminal shall not have access to any resources supplied by or transported to the battle by the contracting entity, this will include but not be limited to CRU's, vehicle deployment, and supply depots.

During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" if killed the criminal will respawn into the center of the battle unable to operate weapons or deploy vehicles until the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" expires.

This proposal is consistent with both the risk & reward, as well as the consequences/ results of your personal actions, which are primary themes of the EVE universe.

Now let the gankers tears flow as they howl in outrage against having a consequence to their choices imposed.

I'm sorry, but I have to say that this is too strict. You might as well keep friendly fire off if you go so far as to disable their own weapons. In Eve Online, a high-sec suicide ganker is unable to warp out once they commit a highly-Concordable offense but they are still able to continue firing until Concord arrives.

Are you then going to demand that they can't use their own uplinks as well? Uplinks that they themselves purchased?

Again, this is waaaaaaaaaaaay way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy overboard with punishment.

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Temba Fusrodah Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru 0	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:57:00 - [1] - Quote Because we have neither Concord nor a way to directly shoot an AWOX player I would like to propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" for players who commit blue on blue homicide during a battle. I propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" of five (5) minutes be imposed during which time the criminal will be a flashing red target to both teams and his deaths will not count against the clone totals of his contracted team. During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" the criminal shall not have access to any resources supplied by or transported to the battle by the contracting entity, this will include but not be limited to CRU's, vehicle deployment, and supply depots. During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" if killed the criminal will respawn into the center of the battle unable to operate weapons or deploy vehicles until the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" expires. This proposal is consistent with both the risk & reward, as well as the consequences/ results of your personal actions, which are primary themes of the EVE universe. Now let the gankers tears flow as they howl in outrage against having a consequence to their choices imposed.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 1062	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:04:00 - [2] - Quote But wherein the contract does it say "Thou shall not kill the bluedots"?
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:08:00 - [3] - Quote wow, I don't like when blueberries are being stupid, but geez, the butthurt here is off the charts.
Temba Fusrodah Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru 0	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:10:00 - [4] - Quote gbghg wrote: But wherein the contract does it say "Thou shall not kill the bluedots"? The same place it says "Thou shall smite everything that moves" .... dude you gotta read the fine print!
Temba Fusrodah Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru 0	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:13:00 - [5] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: wow, I don't like when blueberries are being stupid, but geez, the butthurt here is off the charts. Butt hurt? LOL i love your ganking tears! A "Criminal timer" is a part of the EVE experience .... perhaps you fear the butt hurt coming to you? lol your whining has made this thread worthwhile thanks!
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 1064	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:13:00 - [6] - Quote Temba Fusrodah wrote: gbghg wrote: But wherein the contract does it say "Thou shall not kill the bluedots"? The same place it says "Thou shall smite everything that moves" .... dude you gotta read the fine print! I do but those two clauses contradict each other, so Like most other mercs I choose the one that allows me to remove annoyances from the field.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1178	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:16:00 - [7] - Quote How can it be proven it was my fault when you were run over by my LAV- which I was in the passenger seat of, not driving.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 1065	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:19:00 - [8] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: How can it be proven it was my fault when you were run over by my LAV- which I was in the passenger seat of, not driving. LMAO
Temba Fusrodah Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru 1	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:23:00 - [9] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: How can it be proven it was my fault when you were run over by my LAV- which I was in the passenger seat of, not driving. Here let me tell you a story .... Once upon a time you are in a car with a drunk driver, he runs over a traffic cop and kills him in full view of his partner. He is arrested and punished for his criminal actions, you get to walk home because no one is so stupid as to charge a passenger for being responsible for the driver's poor choice. The end
Temba Fusrodah Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru 1	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:25:00 - [10] - Quote gbghg wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: How can it be proven it was my fault when you were run over by my LAV- which I was in the passenger seat of, not driving. LMAO Well there might be someone so stupid as this post indicates but fortunately he will not be making that decision.

Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:27:00 - [11] - Quote Temba Fusrodah wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: wow, I don't like when blueberries are being stupid, but geez, the butthurt here is off the charts. Butt hurt? LOL i love your ganking tears! A "Criminal timer" is a part of the EVE experience .... perhaps you fear the butt hurt coming to you? lol your whining has made this thread worthwhile thanks! I don't grief blueberries, I don't gank, I play "fair"(at least with my team, the other team can eat a fat veined male chicken for all I care) but hey, keep on being butthurt and calling everyone else wrong for having fun.
DustMercsBlog Galactic News Network 24	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:29:00 - [12] - Quote Be very interesting to see -100 SP for friendly kills in addition to a hefty fine from CONCORD [10-50M] at the end of the match. Contract holder should disable malfunctioning clones that turn on their team just like in Templar One. Kick or Forgive option should be added as well.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1181	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:31:00 - [13] - Quote Temba Fusrodah wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: How can it be proven it was my fault when you were run over by my LAV- which I was in the passenger seat of, not driving. Here let me tell you a story .... Once upon a time you are in a car with a drunk driver, he runs over a traffic cop and kills him in full view of his partner. He is arrested and punished for his criminal actions, you get to walk home because no one is so stupid as to charge a passenger for being responsible for the driver's poor choice. The end But here's the thing- nobody was in the drivers seat. I just decided to take a break from driving, and the LAV drove itself over the other guy.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:33:00 - [14] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Temba Fusrodah wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: How can it be proven it was my fault when you were run over by my LAV- which I was in the passenger seat of, not driving. Here let me tell you a story .... Once upon a time you are in a car with a drunk driver, he runs over a traffic cop and kills him in full view of his partner. He is arrested and punished for his criminal actions, you get to walk home because no one is so stupid as to charge a passenger for being responsible for the driver's poor choice. The end But here's the thing- nobody was in the drivers seat. I just decided to take a break from driving, and the LAV drove itself over the other guy. sounds like a prime candidate for that drone mode pvp we've been hearing about, I've been hearing increased cases of these murderous LAV's taking out "innocent" clones. maybe they're the ones uprising?
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1181	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:34:00 - [15] - Quote What I'm trying to say is that the game DOES have mechanics for anti-teamkilling. However, they're easily exploitable as to where you can run someone over and the game can't tell the difference between that intentionally happening, and there being an accident of an LAV falling on someone from a cliff or an RDV.
Temba Fusrodah Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru 1	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:35:00 - [16] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Temba Fusrodah wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: wow, I don't like when blueberries are being stupid, but geez, the butthurt here is off the charts. Butt hurt? LOL i love your ganking tears! A "Criminal timer" is a part of the EVE experience .... perhaps you fear the butt hurt coming to you? lol your whining has made this thread worthwhile thanks! I don't grief blueberries, I don't gank, I play "fair"(at least with my team, the other team can eat a fat veined male chicken for all I care) but hey, keep on being butthurt and calling everyone else wrong for having fun. I have called no one else wrong for playing the game the way they want to .... One of the things I like about the EVE universe is the fact that your individual choices have permanent results and consequences. My proposal is completely in line with EVE online play established for about a decade now. If you don't like criminal timers you are going to have real trouble with wardecs! .... Welcome to the EVE universe!
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation 1921	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:44:00 - [17] - Quote Temba Fusrodah wrote: Because we have neither Concord nor a way to directly shoot an AWOX player I would like to propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" for players who commit blue on blue homicide during a battle. I propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" of five (5) minutes be imposed during which time the criminal will be a flashing red target to both teams and his deaths will not count against the clone totals of his contracted team. During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" the criminal shall not have access to any resources supplied by or transported to the battle by the contracting entity, this will include but not be limited to CRU's, vehicle deployment, and supply depots. During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" if killed the criminal will respawn into the center of the battle unable to operate weapons or deploy vehicles until the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" expires. This proposal is consistent with both the risk & reward, as well as the consequences/ results of your personal actions, which are primary themes of the EVE universe. Now let the gankers tears flow as they howl in outrage against having a consequence to their choices imposed. I'm sorry, but I have to say that this is too strict. You might as well keep friendly fire off if you go so far as to disable their own weapons. In Eve Online, a high-sec suicide ganker is unable to warp out once they commit a highly-Concordable offense but they are still able to continue firing until Concord arrives. Are you then going to demand that they can't use their own uplinks as well? Uplinks that they themselves purchased? Again, this is waaaaaaaaaaaay way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy overboard with punishment.
Temba Fusrodah Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru 1	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:53:00 - [18] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Temba Fusrodah wrote: Because we have neither Concord nor a way to directly shoot an AWOX player I would like to propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" for players who commit blue on blue homicide during a battle. I propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" of five (5) minutes be imposed during which time the criminal will be a flashing red target to both teams and his deaths will not count against the clone totals of his contracted team. During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" the criminal shall not have access to any resources supplied by or transported to the battle by the contracting entity, this will include but not be limited to CRU's, vehicle deployment, and supply depots. During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" if killed the criminal will respawn into the center of the battle unable to operate weapons or deploy vehicles until the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" expires. This proposal is consistent with both the risk & reward, as well as the consequences/ results of your personal actions, which are primary themes of the EVE universe. Now let the gankers tears flow as they howl in outrage against having a consequence to their choices imposed. I'm sorry, but I have to say that this is too strict. You might as well keep friendly fire off if you go so far as to disable their own weapons. In Eve Online, a high-sec suicide ganker is unable to warp out once they commit a highly-Concordable offense but they are still able to continue firing until Concord arrives. Are you then going to demand that they can't use their own uplinks as well? Uplinks that they themselves purchased? Again, this is waaaaaaaaaaaay way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy overboard with punishment. Thanks for sharing a legitimate concern .... if you had read a bit closer you would have noted that i said after he respawns he has no additional access until the timer runs out. Yes it is your equipment but the contractor is transporting it for you, why would he continue to help you thwart his goals? A little common sense here please. I have proposed this and of course I'd like to read any reasonable adjustments to balance the game without outright banning of a game style others find enjoyable, however having no consequence is just plain dumb.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1183	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:45:00 - [19] - Quote One last thing to randomly add- the problem isn't a lack of a penalty for teamkilling- all friendly damage that is detected right now is negated. The real problem is exploitation.
Eltra Ardell Immobile Infantry 12	Posted - 2013.04.06 22:06:00 - [20] - Quote Please, we have a box for your complaints and a jug for your tears. Be responsible! Don't flood the forums with them! Submit them directly to Immobile Infantry! Or keep making an ass of yourself, it seems to amuse the others.

Charizard Zakalwe Immobile Infantry 2	Posted - 2013.04.06 22:48:00 - [21] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67773&find=unread We do have a thread for dealing with complaints. His Majesty's Imperial Immobile Infantry's Internal Investigatory Committee thanks you for using it.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 56	Posted - 2013.04.06 22:59:00 - [22] - Quote Am I the only one who thinks it is hilarious that someone from "Ganksters Inc" is crying about "the gankers"? Temba Fusrodah wrote: Now let the gankers tears flow as they howl in outrage against having a consequence to their choices imposed. lol
Another Heavy SOB TRUE TEA BAGGERS 19	Posted - 2013.04.06 23:04:00 - [23] - Quote DustMercsBlog wrote: Be very interesting to see -100 SP for friendly kills in addition to a hefty fine from CONCORD [10-50M] at the end of the match. Contract holder should disable malfunctioning clones that turn on their team just like in Templar One. Kick or Forgive option should be added as well. Do you even play Dust? Or just talk about it? I mean how many player's do you know with 50M ISK on a single char? I agree that the unprovoked and repeated killing of your teammates is about the most immature, childish and annoying trolling in FPS Games today. As has been stated the game thinks it's an accident so it not tracked, if it was I'd say kick them from match at 4 TK's. The whole having everybody shoot them while they can't even defend themselves is just butthurt cries for revenge. And charging them tens of millions of ISK....seriously?
Natu Nobilis Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2013.04.06 23:18:00 - [24] - Quote Temba Fusrodah wrote: Because we have neither Concord nor a way to directly shoot an AWOX player I would like to propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" for players who commit blue on blue homicide during a battle. I propose a "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" of five (5) minutes be imposed during which time the criminal will be a flashing red target to both teams and his deaths will not count against the clone totals of his contracted team. During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" the criminal shall not have access to any resources supplied by or transported to the battle by the contracting entity, this will include but not be limited to CRU's, vehicle deployment, and supply depots. During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" if killed the criminal will respawn into the center of the battle unable to operate weapons or deploy vehicles until the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" expires. This proposal is consistent with both the risk & reward, as well as the consequences/ results of your personal actions, which are primary themes of the EVE universe. Now let the gankers tears flow as they howl in outrage against having a consequence to their choices imposed. Just a few questions: "his deaths will not count against the clone totals of his contracted team" How do you explain this within the mechanic? The clones are a concrete item. And let-¦s say every player of every team goes awoxing, do i get infinite battle with no clone loss? During the "Breach Of Contract Criminal Timer" if killed the criminal will respawn into the center of the battle unable to operate weapons How will he spawn at the center of the battle? I mean, physically. And let-¦s say i-¦m at the beggining of a battle, i shoot a friendly, i get killed, i show up at the center (not having to walk all the way there) and secure locations. Wouldn-¦t it be unfair and exploit the transport mechanics ? Some sort of "Crimewatch" system is interesting for Public matches, but dealing with traitors should be a social mechanic in Corp battles. (Commanders kicking people out)
Mithridates VI DUST 411 659	Posted - 2013.04.07 00:43:00 - [25] - Quote Why the hell would a contractor allow a traitor to respawn at all?
Mithridates VI DUST 411 659	Posted - 2013.04.07 01:21:00 - [26] - Quote Why would a merc give CONCORD fines any attention at all?
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2013.04.07 01:35:00 - [27] - Quote I can kinda get behind this, this makes sense, better then all the QQ threads out there.
Temba Fusrodah Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru 1	Posted - 2013.04.07 01:37:00 - [28] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Am I the only one who thinks it is hilarious that someone from "Ganksters Inc" is crying about "the gankers"? Temba Fusrodah wrote: Now let the gankers tears flow as they howl in outrage against having a consequence to their choices imposed. lol Perhaps you should have read a little more ....I have no problem with ganking ... as I said look at the name of my corp .... however ganking without consequences opens the door for dishonorable immature children to role play as if they had the courage or skills to be a real Ganker.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1186	Posted - 2013.04.07 15:35:00 - [29] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Why would a merc give CONCORD fines any attention at all? Why would CONCORD give mercs any attention at all? The only reason they care about pilots is probably because of the crew on their ships.
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1086	Posted - 2013.04.07 16:03:00 - [30] - Quote I'm going to assume you were being serious. This has real potential to be abused, a guy in a corp battle kills his team-mate, and now he can go forth and get killed as many times as he wants until the timer runs out, whilst killing off the enemy's clone count.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation 1930	Posted - 2013.04.07 17:20:00 - [31] - Quote I still say it's too strict and overboard. Let the user operate his own weapon at least. I'm against the center spawn part because how will you explain spawning without a CRU or uplink in a corp battle skirmish match? Also, let the AWOXER have a chance to switch sides but let the opposing team know that an AWOXER is wanting to switch sides and the team leader can elect to let him in or keep him out.
Charizard Zakalwe Immobile Infantry 11	Posted - 2013.04.07 17:26:00 - [32] - Quote You guys do realise that you're soldiers fighting for corps that have already WarDec'd each other right? And that if you're not familiar with EVE and WarDec's, they are essentially bribes paid to Concorde to get to liberally murder people in High/Low Sec. Why would Concorde get involved at all?
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation 1930	Posted - 2013.04.07 18:03:00 - [33] - Quote Charizard Zakalwe wrote: You guys do realise that you're soldiers fighting for corps that have already WarDec'd each other right? And that if you're not familiar with EVE and WarDec's, they are essentially bribes paid to Concorde to get to liberally murder people in High/Low Sec. Why would Concorde get involved at all? Concord has limited jurisdiction on planets. It's the Directive Enforcement Division (DED) that seems to have some influence but I'm not sure.
Philipp Achtel Immobile Infantry 33	Posted - 2013.04.07 19:16:00 - [34] - Quote Did this really warrant two threads?
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1320	Posted - 2013.04.07 19:19:00 - [35] - Quote I can promise you one thing. If ccp ever puts friendly fire in hisec, which it wont, I will be able to break whatever system is there. I will grief any and every one possible doing it. example: I will walk in front of people shooting and get them introuble for shooting me. TKing is a past time in dust. I fear blues as much as reds and have hardly every been tk'd. Lots of people try and God knows I deserve it.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 422	Posted - 2013.04.07 19:54:00 - [36] - Quote Welcome to New Eden, where friendly fire is not only allowed, but encouraged. Providing there's money in it.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation 1932	Posted - 2013.04.07 20:33:00 - [37] - Quote Laheon wrote: Welcome to New Eden, where friendly fire is not only allowed, but encouraged. Providing there's money in it. The guy has already been welcomed to New Eden long ago.
Robert JD Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 46	Posted - 2013.04.07 20:48:00 - [38] - Quote I'v not been awoxed or awoxed anybody yet so my opinion may not count much. I would not let a computer decide who to punish if a kill is not a result of direct friendly fire. We humans are better at it... Instead let CCP introduce a standings system into DUST contacts management (the same as in EVE). Then when a match ends you just do "show info" on your offender then add her/him to your contacts and adjust standing accordingly. This way you can keep track of your grudges and stay away from them... Or whatever you like...
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation 1932	Posted - 2013.04.07 21:12:00 - [39] - Quote Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote: I'v not been awoxed or awoxed anybody yet so my opinion may not count much. I would not let a computer decide who to punish if a kill is not a result of direct friendly fire. We humans are better at it... Instead let CCP introduce a standings system into DUST contacts management (the same as in EVE). Then when a match ends you just do "show info" on your offender then add her/him to your contacts and adjust standing accordingly. This way you can keep track of your grudges and stay away from them... Or whatever you like... This. Allowing players to decide what to do with the AWOXer is far more practical than allowing a computer to decide such things. Besides, a computer cannot account for certain circumstances that are beyond simple coding of the program. Take for example a city traffic camera that you regularly see on the intersections meant to discourage drivers from running red lights or stopping too far ahead of the solid lines when stopping. It seemed simple at the time until a few cases started showing up that exposed a major problem with the system. One example (true story): A funeral precession was being escorted by police to cross an intersection. The traffic lights were on RED but the police halted traffic to allow the row of funeral cars to drive through anyways. The next day or two, the owners of each and every one of those funeral cars were issued a ticket by the city costing about $150-$250 per violation. When the owners took this to court, it was discovered that literally no one was hired to review the camera footage before the tickets were issued. The court dropped the tickets in favor of the owners. Now let's consider different scenario. Let's say you are at the intersection and you stopped at the red light. You are in the very front. Suddenly an ambulance or fire truck starts coming from behind. You and everyone behind you had to move out of the way (BY LAW) so that the emergency vehicles can get through or else you will be issued a heavy fine or citation. But the traffic camera nearby takes a picture of your car crossing the solid line and two others that were next to you and decides to issue the tickets anyways. The point here is that computers currently lack the capacity to judge properly like humans by accounting for unusual circumstances. This is why it's best to allow the team in the match to decide what to do with the player rather than let the server decide. Allowing a computer to decide opens the possibility to be exploited. Let's say I don't like you and you are on my team. All I have to do is jump right in front of you (the OP) constantly and the system (that you recommended) will punish you for 15 minutes. Once the 15 minutes are over, I can do it again and screw you over one more time before the skirmish match is over. Or how about you have a member in your team that nobody likes and wants to punish him for not following orders or not helping the team. If the team shoots that one guy as punishment, they will be the ones punished instead, not the insubordinate scrub.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 423	Posted - 2013.04.07 21:20:00 - [40] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The guy has already been welcomed to New Eden long ago. I know, I was simply trying to insinuate things. And stuff.



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