DUST Search - smg vs ar.

Marston VC wrote:

Rifter7 wrote:

Sloth9230 wrote:

Rifter7 wrote:

duvolle ar 90/13 34.1 x 750rpm= 25575/60 =426.25dps
ishukone asmg 68/11 23.1 1052.6rpm= 24315.06/60 =405.251dps
the skills effect spread and kick the same way. if anything the ar is getting a better bonus do to it's starting accuracy.

yeah. they're good, but idk about that fitting cost and how an ar outdamages them in smg optimals. idk. it's just odd.

PRO SMG against armor 441.72359
PRO AR against armor 383.625

Flux Grenades Twisted

Edit: Right, shields
AR = 468.875
SMG = 380.93594

If they had AR range, they'd actually make a decent main weapon. I'd bump shield damage to 95% though, just saying.

i dunno if giving them range is the answer.
i mean atm if an ar and a smg stand point blank next to each other and unload the ar wins. if every bullet hits each other that ar guys gonna win. that doesnt make sense to me.

Your surprised an 'assault weapon' does more damage then a 'sub machine gun'? If you look at it like that then the smg is going to lose to almost every weapon.

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Rifter7 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 183	Posted - 2013.04.06 09:30:00 - [31] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: From a heavies perspective......... stats ...... yea right. Skilled heavies at Close range with an smg ... boss. Those late to the party. Hellllo! Back to the OP the real questions is are you a good shot or a pray and spray sort? depends. we moving? controlled bursts, ads if i can get a good shot but otherwise no ads and theres bullets going everywhere. fatty staring at me? ads right on his dome. but yeah. i can take kids down with that scrambler if that's the question, i've done it with a militia alt. cost someone a proto suit when i was playing him last, aurum tho most likely.
Rugman91 Deep Space Republic 158	Posted - 2013.04.06 09:31:00 - [32] - Quote XXfootnoteXX wrote: Bottom line SMG is a secondary weapon. I plan on skilling into it after the reset. I think the fact you can compare it to the AR is pretty damn good to be honest. True this. I prefer the pistol tho
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 94	Posted - 2013.04.06 09:32:00 - [33] - Quote Rifter7 wrote: m209 smg 22hp dmg 1052.6rpm gek ar------ 32.5hp dmg 750 rpm pretty simple. 23157.2 smg / 60 =385.95 dps 24375 ar / 60 =406.25 dps m209 51 accuracy rating 42 cpu 7 pg gek 56.6 accuracy rating 47 cpu 6 pg okay. Assault Rifle 110%shield 90%armor SMG 94%shield 109%armor just gonna leave this here. leave your thoughts.. im speccing out of smgs once we get our sp back tho. you forgot to add SMG optimal range 15m AR optimal range 35m without sharpshooter skills you deal 20% less damage with SMGs at 20m EDIT the accuracy low accuracy of the SMG is very noticeable. at 20m the spread makes you miss alot of projectiles.
Rifter7 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 183	Posted - 2013.04.06 09:35:00 - [34] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Rifter7 wrote: m209 smg 22hp dmg 1052.6rpm gek ar------ 32.5hp dmg 750 rpm pretty simple. 23157.2 smg / 60 =385.95 dps 24375 ar / 60 =406.25 dps m209 51 accuracy rating 42 cpu 7 pg gek 56.6 accuracy rating 47 cpu 6 pg okay. Assault Rifle 110%shield 90%armor SMG 94%shield 109%armor just gonna leave this here. leave your thoughts.. im speccing out of smgs once we get our sp back tho. you forgot to add SMG optimal range 15m AR optimal range 35m without sharpshooter skills you deal 20% less damage with SMGs at 20m yeah i didnt have the numbers. id add em but everyones to busy reminding me its a secondary with primary fitting reqs hahah.
Cody Sietz The Tritan Industries 69	Posted - 2013.04.06 13:49:00 - [35] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: The SMG is good for one thing, ripping off the rest of your enemies armor when your main weapon is out of ammo/needs reload and they are close to death. Other than that, it is pretty much useless. If I am running a suit that has no anti-infantry main, I will rock a scrambler instead of a SMG for my method of self-preservation. It's not ideal by a long shot, but gives me a better chance to actually kill somebody, or severely hurt them. Even the most basic scrambler with a headshot is something fierce against solid suits, just requires good aim or random luck. But I'll take my odds over using a SMG as a main defense. Now that I think about, the SMG is almost useless when you run swarms. I think I will start using the pistol.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2669	Posted - 2013.04.06 13:56:00 - [36] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Hey guys, I will leave a word here. I don't know what it means, but I feel like it should help. "Secondary" scrambler pistol is a secondary and is one of the strongest and best guns in the game your point ? oh the pistol also has like 3x the optimal as well oh a shotgun outranges the SMG seeing how ******** a 15m optimal is now?
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 815	Posted - 2013.04.06 17:34:00 - [37] - Quote Marston VC wrote: smg > scrambler pistol by far Don't make me laugh
leafblades Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.04.06 17:42:00 - [38] - Quote Marston VC wrote: smg > scrambler pistol by far Maybe for people who can't aim...
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 125	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:15:00 - [39] - Quote I was so pumped about the exile because it's basically an SMG CPU/PG with AR power. so now I run my scouts with exiles.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 23	Posted - 2013.04.06 21:56:00 - [40] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Hey guys, I will leave a word here. I don't know what it means, but I feel like it should help. "Secondary" They should rename the current SMG's to machine pistols and give us 'real' SMG's

Icy TIG3R Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2013.04.06 22:26:00 - [41] - Quote 28-0 with and Ishukone. Ty.
Rifter7 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 186	Posted - 2013.04.07 01:15:00 - [42] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: 28-0 with and Ishukone. Ty. whatd you go thrash some pubs? go do me a favor; find some ar players that can aim worth **** and are in advanced/proto suits, go toe to toe with your smg, think about how much you had to outplay them to win or how little they had to do to kill you then look at your ishukones fitting costs for me. totally worth it right? you're rolling around with something that's basically weaker than a gek, but takes more to fit and costs more isk. good job. 450% headshot damage, 11 in the round, 79 dmg and HALF the fitting cost. pfft. now if you applied half of that skill that you would have to kill someone on par with your smg to a scrambler i know you could make that number higher and vs better geared opponents.. i mean.. its not worth it. it's just not.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 177	Posted - 2013.04.07 02:17:00 - [43] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: 28-0 with and Ishukone. Ty. I reached the 40's in ambush a few times with my proto... I somehow lost half of those games -_-
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2391	Posted - 2013.04.07 02:38:00 - [44] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: the low accuracy of the SMG is very noticeable. at 20m the spread makes you miss alot of projectiles. If you're hip-firing, yeah. I can consistently headshot with my SMG by using the sights at 20m, and out-dps a less-skilled AR user. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Hey guys, I will leave a word here. I don't know what it means, but I feel like it should help. "Secondary" They should rename the current SMG's to machine pistols and give us 'real' SMG's In the real world, a few well-known SMGs are "officially" called Machine Pistols by the manufacturers. Just saying. SMGs in DUST are better for CQC than ARs. High volume and low precision makes it easier to land hits with the SMG when you're in extreme close range. They aren't as versatile as ARs, but they aren't meant to be. That's why they're a Sidearm instead of a primary weapon. If you're outside SMG optimal range, and the other guy has anything but a Shotgun or another SMG, you're doing it wrong.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2013.04.07 03:10:00 - [45] - Quote One thing to consider this is the assault variant the DPS on the normal varient is even worse for a **** range and accuracy buff. personally I think SMGs need a small DPS buff(+1dmg to all levels) or side arms should be dual weildable for a accuracy hit while dual weilding.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2013.04.07 03:17:00 - [46] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Rifter7 wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Rifter7 wrote: duvolle ar 90/13 34.1 x 750rpm= 25575/60 =426.25dps ishukone asmg 68/11 23.1 1052.6rpm= 24315.06/60 =405.251dps the skills effect spread and kick the same way. if anything the ar is getting a better bonus do to it's starting accuracy. yeah. they're good, but idk about that fitting cost and how an ar outdamages them in smg optimals. idk. it's just odd. PRO SMG against armor 441.72359 PRO AR against armor 383.625 Flux Grenades Edit: Right, shields AR = 468.875 SMG = 380.93594 If they had AR range, they'd actually make a decent main weapon. I'd bump shield damage to 95% though, just saying. i dunno if giving them range is the answer. i mean atm if an ar and a smg stand point blank next to each other and unload the ar wins. if every bullet hits each other that ar guys gonna win. that doesnt make sense to me. Your surprised an 'assault weapon' does more damage then a 'sub machine gun'? If you look at it like that then the smg is going to lose to almost every weapon. actually if you look IRL SMG have a higer DMG potential then assult rifles, in every way(depending on ammo/armor combo) the down side of the SMG is accuracy and penetration.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 470	Posted - 2013.04.07 03:25:00 - [47] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: 28-0 with and Ishukone. Ty. I can testify to this. Dammit. =)
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2013.04.07 06:05:00 - [48] - Quote thats about the only thing the smg is good for, sloppy close range fights. or taking out an armor heavy.
Rifter7 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 188	Posted - 2013.04.07 07:24:00 - [49] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: the low accuracy of the SMG is very noticeable. at 20m the spread makes you miss alot of projectiles. If you're hip-firing, yeah. I can consistently headshot with my SMG by using the sights at 20m, and out-dps a less-skilled AR user. man.. hahah EVERYTHING IS BETTER THAN A LESS SKILLED OPPONENT. come on... a weapon is good because you can beat noobs? really? that's how you determine their worth? you say you can consistently hit headshots, and i didn't check your stats or anything but i'm assuming you're a decent or better player.. here's the thing. you put that skill into a scrambler pistol? you get those headshot? they're dead. end of story. now.. okay. you want to defend the thing. sure thats cool. i like smg's too, i used them in counter strike, i used them in battlefield, whatever you name your game and i've probably given the smg or machine pistol a chance. the difference? smg is heavily dominant in their optimal range vs most other weapons.. usually shotguns for example beating them.. in this game? they get beat by ar's. in. their. range. sure you can i dunno spiderman off the wall and pull some ninja ****, but at the end of the day all you're accomplishing is outplaying a player with an inferior weapon. inferior weapon.. that'd be fine, i mean the smgs are still viable.. but at what cost? the damned thing hahah.. it's almost as much as a proto primary. comeeee onnnnnn. how can you defend that? it's got the price tag of a primary in terms of fittings yet it hits worse than one.. i don't.. ???


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