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Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 07:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
m209 smg 22hp dmg 1052.6rpm
gek ar------ 32.5hp dmg 750 rpm
pretty simple.
23157.2 smg / 60 =385.95 dps
24375 ar / 60 =406.25 dps
m209 51 accuracy rating 42 cpu 7 pg
gek 56.6 accuracy rating 47 cpu 6 pg
okay.
Assault Rifle 110%shield 90%armor
SMG 94%shield 109%armor
just gonna leave this here. leave your thoughts.. im speccing out of smgs once we get our sp back tho. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 07:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
its just pretty absurd that in your optimal range you're at a disadvantage vs an ar in terms of damage and accuracy, yet they cost the same in terms of fitting.. riiight... |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 07:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Hey guys, I will leave a word here.
I don't know what it means, but I feel like it should help.
"Secondary"
whys it have a primary weapons fitting cost? |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 08:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
duvolle ar 90/13 34.1 x 750rpm= 25575/60 =426.25dps
ishukone asmg 68/11 23.1 1052.6rpm= 24315.06/60 =405.251dps
the skills effect spread and kick the same way. if anything the ar is getting a better bonus do to it's starting accuracy.
yeah. they're good, but idk about that fitting cost and how an ar outdamages them in smg optimals. idk. it's just odd.
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Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 08:28:00 -
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XXfootnoteXX wrote:Bottom line SMG is a secondary weapon.
I plan on skilling into it after the reset. I think the fact you can compare it to the AR is pretty damn good to be honest.
you gotta take into consideration the spread and range man.
i dunno.. its just a gimped assault rifle. i guess that's what ccp wants, i dunno if that's what i really need.
i mean sure itll tear people a new ahole with worse gear but on equal footing the things at a disadvantage in its optimal vs an ar. i dunno. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 08:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Rifter7 wrote:duvolle ar 90/13 34.1 x 750rpm= 25575/60 =426.25dps
ishukone asmg 68/11 23.1 1052.6rpm= 24315.06/60 =405.251dps
the skills effect spread and kick the same way. if anything the ar is getting a better bonus do to it's starting accuracy.
yeah. they're good, but idk about that fitting cost and how an ar outdamages them in smg optimals. idk. it's just odd.
PRO SMG against armor 441.72359 PRO AR against armor 383.625 Flux Grenades  Edit: Right, shields AR = 468.875 SMG = 380.93594 If they had AR range, they'd actually make a decent main weapon. I'd bump shield damage to 95% though, just saying.
i dunno if giving them range is the answer.
i mean atm if an ar and a smg stand point blank next to each other and unload the ar wins. if every bullet hits each other that ar guys gonna win. that doesnt make sense to me. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 08:41:00 -
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Marston VC wrote:Rifter7 wrote:XXfootnoteXX wrote:Bottom line SMG is a secondary weapon.
I plan on skilling into it after the reset. I think the fact you can compare it to the AR is pretty damn good to be honest. you gotta take into consideration the spread and range man. i dunno.. its just a gimped assault rifle. i guess that's what ccp wants, i dunno if that's what i really need. i mean sure itll tear people a new ahole with worse gear but on equal footing the things at a disadvantage in its optimal vs an ar. not much point, just gonna spec scramblers instead. the spread is much less noticeable at level three sharpshooter plus smg opp
i roll with smg 4 for the m209 and have my weapon upgrades and sharpshooter at 4 for my smg.
sure.. random kids you can kill. try coming up against an advanced or proto suit ar that can aim worth ****. you lose unless you outplay or shoot them by a lot. this is in the smgs optimal range, you could hug the guy.
i use lasers too. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 08:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
im looking at the fitting costs and seeing different man.
you take the most fitting intensive scrambler pistol and its 48/8 for a viziam scrambler. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 08:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:There are two errors with your logic.
Fallacy #1: You are assuming every bullet hits the target.
Fallacy #2: You are assuming the damage output is continuous rather than discrete.
I've used the SMG for a long time and seem to win most up close encounters with AR users. Since we're both jumping around neither of us are landing 100% of our shots, but since I have a higher rate of fire I am landing more. And if it gets to the point where we are both low on health, he has to wait much longer for the bullet to fire.
And at the end of the day it is a secondary, as mentioned numerous times.
i wouldn't say a thing if the fitting cost didn't make me wonder if i was fitting an ar on. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 09:20:00 -
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Delirium Inferno wrote:Why must sidearms have very low fitting costs? The fact is you can fit it in a S slot.
well they're sidearms. i'm assuming theyre not supposed to be as good as primaries- fine. but having them cost almost as much? yeah okay.
it feels like they're not as powerful as an ar, but their costs are almost the same. to me.. i feel like it should have a lower cost, or it should give more bang for the buck.
i get you dig the things, thats cool man i do to.. but you've said you used the things. you even admited that you have to outshoot those ar players like there was no tommorow.
WHY? the thing costs as much as an assault rifle.. why. if it was on par with a scrambler- okay no harm no foul.. but its not. and the ammount of work to kill a similar weapon on its terms is incredible for the cost? do you understand what im saying?
that's why im dropping the damn thing.. ive used them since day one, so please don't pull the "oh whatever man get some more experience with em" bs. they're just not worth the price tag, and i'm already noticing the freedom to fit what i want with the carthum scrambler on now.
is what it is man. |
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Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 09:30:00 -
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HowDidThatTaste wrote:From a heavies perspective......... stats ...... yea right.
Skilled heavies at Close range with an smg ... boss.
Those late to the party. Hellllo!
Back to the OP the real questions is are you a good shot or a pray and spray sort?
depends. we moving? controlled bursts, ads if i can get a good shot but otherwise no ads and theres bullets going everywhere.
fatty staring at me? ads right on his dome.
but yeah. i can take kids down with that scrambler if that's the question, i've done it with a militia alt. cost someone a proto suit when i was playing him last, aurum tho most likely. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.06 09:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Rifter7 wrote:m209 smg 22hp dmg 1052.6rpm
gek ar------ 32.5hp dmg 750 rpm
pretty simple.
23157.2 smg / 60 =385.95 dps
24375 ar / 60 =406.25 dps
m209 51 accuracy rating 42 cpu 7 pg
gek 56.6 accuracy rating 47 cpu 6 pg
okay.
Assault Rifle 110%shield 90%armor
SMG 94%shield 109%armor
just gonna leave this here. leave your thoughts.. im speccing out of smgs once we get our sp back tho. you forgot to add SMG optimal range 15m AR optimal range 35m without sharpshooter skills you deal 20% less damage with SMGs at 20m
yeah i didnt have the numbers. id add em but everyones to busy reminding me its a secondary with primary fitting reqs hahah. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.07 01:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:28-0 with and Ishukone. Ty.
whatd you go thrash some pubs?
go do me a favor; find some ar players that can aim worth **** and are in advanced/proto suits, go toe to toe with your smg, think about how much you had to outplay them to win or how little they had to do to kill you then look at your ishukones fitting costs for me. totally worth it right? you're rolling around with something that's basically weaker than a gek, but takes more to fit and costs more isk. good job.
450% headshot damage, 11 in the round, 79 dmg and HALF the fitting cost. pfft. now if you applied half of that skill that you would have to kill someone on par with your smg to a scrambler i know you could make that number higher and vs better geared opponents.. i mean.. its not worth it. it's just not. |
Rifter7
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Posted - 2013.04.07 07:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Jack McReady wrote:the low accuracy of the SMG is very noticeable. at 20m the spread makes you miss alot of projectiles. If you're hip-firing, yeah. I can consistently headshot with my SMG by using the sights at 20m, and out-dps a less-skilled AR user.
man.. hahah EVERYTHING IS BETTER THAN A LESS SKILLED OPPONENT. come on... a weapon is good because you can beat noobs? really? that's how you determine their worth?
you say you can consistently hit headshots, and i didn't check your stats or anything but i'm assuming you're a decent or better player.. here's the thing. you put that skill into a scrambler pistol? you get those headshot?
they're dead. end of story.
now.. okay. you want to defend the thing. sure thats cool. i like smg's too, i used them in counter strike, i used them in battlefield, whatever you name your game and i've probably given the smg or machine pistol a chance.
the difference? smg is heavily dominant in their optimal range vs most other weapons.. usually shotguns for example beating them..
in this game? they get beat by ar's. in. their. range. sure you can i dunno spiderman off the wall and pull some ninja ****, but at the end of the day all you're accomplishing is outplaying a player with an inferior weapon.
inferior weapon.. that'd be fine, i mean the smgs are still viable.. but at what cost? the damned thing hahah.. it's almost as much as a proto primary. comeeee onnnnnn. how can you defend that?
it's got the price tag of a primary in terms of fittings yet it hits worse than one.. i don't.. ??? |
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