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Do TAC ARs and Burst ARs deserve a buff?

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GoD-NoVa Imperfects Negative-Feedback 195	Posted - 2013.03.22 12:35:00 - [1] - Quote Right now the burst AR and TAC AR are useless. I think they need to have their recoil reduced. Last build before the AR nerf, TAC and Burst ARs were more fun to use. But now they are extinct and they remove the excitement i had from using them. The recoil on the TAC AR is more like a bounce and it should have a slight decrease in the amount of bounce it has.
G Torq ALTA B2O 104	Posted - 2013.03.22 12:37:00 - [2] - Quote Agreed - TARs should have the recoil reduced slightly.
Gauder Berwyck Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 231	Posted - 2013.03.22 12:47:00 - [3] - Quote Buff the Breach AR... that thing got nerfed to uselessness and beyond!
Volgair The Tritan Industries 241	Posted - 2013.03.22 12:51:00 - [4] - Quote G Torq wrote: Agreed - TARs should have the recoil reduced slightly. CCP tried that already and people considering themselves "pro" started abusing turbo controllers and totally broke the flow of the game. That said, if they would add a fast heat-fast cool mechanic so people would have to use the weapon in bursts of 2 or 3 I could get behind a recoil reduction.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 95	Posted - 2013.03.22 12:52:00 - [5] - Quote All the AR variants are underpowered vs the stock version, i keep trying them but when i swap back to the stock version people just die faster.
GoD-NoVa Imperfects Negative-Feedback 195	Posted - 2013.03.22 12:57:00 - [6] - Quote Volgair wrote: G Torq wrote: Agreed - TARs should have the recoil reduced slightly. CCP tried that already and people considering themselves "pro" started abusing turbo controllers and totally broke the flow of the game. That said, if they would add a fast heat-fast cool mechanic so people would have to use the weapon in bursts of 2 or 3 I could get behind a recoil reduction. ok i can agree but not everyone used such controllers and is there even any proof they effect dust? i, as well as many others used the DS3 and our trigger finger to produce such high RoF. but yeah if they reduced recoil and added a heat build up mechanic i can work with that. but i think i should have the ability to fire the first 10 shots as fast as i can without having to stop to cool down
ZiwZih The Tritan Industries 85	Posted - 2013.03.22 13:43:00 - [7] - Quote I guess Burst was lapsus calami and you thought on Breach. Yes, both Tactical and Breach are 'over-fixed'. TAR either needs lesser recoil or more damage per shot. Complaints on people with modded Sixaxis abusing it means damage buff is preferable, I guess. Also, mouse makes it a bit better to use now. Breach I never tried, but people with experience with it stated many times on many Feedback post about it being useless. Pity how AR fix lessen the variety you see on the field.
Judy Maat Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 7	Posted - 2013.03.22 13:45:00 - [8] - Quote G Torq wrote: Agreed - TARs should have the recoil reduced slightly. No train the skill that reduce recoil my friend.. because then what the skill would be there for? And you would become a GOD when you train the skill on top of this recoil nerf
N1ck Comeau Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 125	Posted - 2013.03.22 13:47:00 - [9] - Quote They do need to buff them the burst is almost useless it needs less recoil and more range. The breach should be the opposite of what is now. It should be an 900 rpm gun with high recoil and big hip spread. Its major advantage would be it's fast time to kill. When i think breach i think going through a door into a close quarters fight. I want a high rate of fire gun for that.
ZiwZih The Tritan Industries 85	Posted - 2013.03.22 13:55:00 - [10] - Quote Judy Maat wrote: G Torq wrote: Agreed - TARs should have the recoil reduced slightly. No train the skill that reduce recoil my friend.. because then what the skill would be there for? And you would become a GOD when you train the skill on top of this recoil nerf Like many here I have perfect skill, plus I am using a mouse which makes TAR a bit easier and I tell you recoil is too high... At least for that damage output. And relax my dear, CCP has a huge history of over-nerfing and over-buffing things. TAR is one such a thing. Noone here is asking it to become a godly weapon.

GoD-NoVa Imperfects Negative-Feedback 195	Posted - 2013.03.22 13:55:00 - [11] - Quote Judy Maat wrote: G Torq wrote: Agreed - TARs should have the recoil reduced slightly. No train the skill that reduce recoil my friend.. because then what the skill would be there for? And you would become a GOD when you train the skill on top of this recoil nerf the skill doesnt help with recoil, it is still very high even with AR operation maxed
ZiwZih The Tritan Industries 85	Posted - 2013.03.22 13:57:00 - [12] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: They do need to buff them the burst is almost useless it needs less recoil and more range. (...). IIRC Burst has 0 recoil. Only thing users of it asked was to lessen the burst from 8 to 3 bullets, I think. But then, I haven't used it in a while.
Volgair The Tritan Industries 241	Posted - 2013.03.22 14:08:00 - [13] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Volgair wrote: G Torq wrote: Agreed - TARs should have the recoil reduced slightly. CCP tried that already and people considering themselves "pro" started abusing turbo controllers and totally broke the flow of the game. That said, if they would add a fast heat-fast cool mechanic so people would have to use the weapon in bursts of 2 or 3 I could get behind a recoil reduction. ok i can agree but not everyone used such controllers and is there even any proof they effect dust? i, as well as many others used the DS3 and our trigger finger to produce such high RoF. but yeah if they reduced recoil and added a heat build up mechanic i can work with that. but i think i should have the ability to fire the first 10 shots as fast as i can without having to stop to cool down I used the TAR at the start of Septembers build and stopped when i realized it was as broken as it was, simply out of principal. Absurd damage aside, the weapon could hit not just hit from B to C on the old Manus Peak with sharp shooter prof 1, While laser lineing rounds into peoples dome piece. For those of you unfamiliar with that map that was like a 350m gap. As for the turbo controller my roommate purchased a cheap one for proof of concept, it worked like a charm permitting him to go 45/3 with little effort, he honestly is not that good. Said controller was promptly placed on a shelf as a trophy for pioneering failed game design. We would have recorded it, if it wasn't for NDA but we needed proof for forum fuel to flame the weapon to its current broken state. While unfortunate, the game only had one option for fitting. Which constitutes game breaking in most minds.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 755	Posted - 2013.03.22 14:28:00 - [14] - Quote Will disagree on the burst. I wreck faces with it. Especially the Allotek/Gorewreck variants.. they're lethal.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2013.03.22 14:37:00 - [15] - Quote Proto is the only worthwhile burst. Breach is worthless and needs change. Tac needs recoil lowered if you want to fix the issue with modded controllers then change the max ROF to be similar to breach.
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 71	Posted - 2013.03.22 14:44:00 - [16] - Quote For the TAR, one solution might be to model it after the DMR from Reach (think it might have changed for H4). Basically, if you shoot it as fast as it allows, you lose a lot of accuracy. So the idea is that you actually have to shoot it slightly slower in order to get the maximum performance out of it. However, if you shoot it too slow, then you're losing a lot of DPS. So it's a balancing act with the RoF. That should allow for them to reduce the recoil, but still counter turbo controllers. It should also make it require enough skill that it's high damage shouldn't be a problem.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 346	Posted - 2013.03.22 14:47:00 - [17] - Quote most variants of most weapons need a buff/change
G Torq ALTA B2O 104	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:02:00 - [18] - Quote Seems I need to add a bit more.... (Disclaimer, I've played with TARs in the 2 previous builds, and currently have AR lvl 4) The TAR should have following changes applied to it: RoF to be in the 400-600 shots per minute range (6.6-10.0 shots per second) Recoil should be reduce BY A SMALL AMOUNT* Damage should be increase by 5 hp Price can actually go up a bit This, I think, would help the TAR, and largely prevent modded controllers. ) People seem to think that when I said "reduced slightly", I meant "removed" - I mean "slightly" as in not very much, as in keep most of the current kick/climb also, Judy Maat wrote:* G Torq wrote: Agreed - TARs should have the recoil reduced slightly. No train the skill that reduce recoil my friend.. You're an idiot, Judy Maat.
Sobriety Denied FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 499	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:09:00 - [19] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Right now the burst AR and TAC AR are useless. I think they need to have their recoil reduced. Last build before the AR nerf, TAC and Burst ARs were more fun to use. But now they are extinct and they remove the excitement i had from using them. The recoil on the TAC AR is more like a bounce and it should have a slight decrease in the amount of bounce it has. as a mass driver user i will say yes. also the breach needs a bigger clip
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 255	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:16:00 - [20] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Right now the burst AR and TAC AR are useless. I think they need to have their recoil reduced. Last build before the AR nerf, TAC and Burst ARs were more fun to use. But now they are extinct and they remove the excitement i had from using them. The recoil on the TAC AR is more like a bounce and it should have a slight decrease in the amount of bounce it has. can agree there G. the burst is crappy since of the 7 rnd burst b/c the 1st & last usually dont hit & has a "uncontrollable" recoil pattern. best thing would probably breduce burst recoil to nothing like it was in codex (and should since is going to rnd burst). TAR needs a lower ROF, that will hinder those who "used" modded controllers. The breach needs a slight increase in ROF. that will probably solve the uselessness of the AR variantions

Micheal JF IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 3	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:30:00 - [21] - Quote I still think of the TAR as a high damage low RoF weapon I think the damage should be almost doubled and the bounce toned down just a little bit to were it does not kick like the Tac sniper rifle. And I mean the the bounce needs just to be turned down a tiny bit. A little bit to much and it will be broken again and I want some variety in the AR. The TAR does not need to be just another AR with a better zoom and semi auto make it rather different to make it fill another niche.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 256	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:37:00 - [22] - Quote Micheal JF wrote: I still think of the TAR as a high damage low RoF weapon I think the damage should be almost doubled and the bounce toned down just a little bit to were it does not kick like the Tac sniper rifle. And I mean the the bounce needs just to be turned down a tiny bit. A little bit to much and it will be broken again and I want some variety in the AR. The TAR does not need to be just another AR with a better zoom and semi auto make it rather different to make it fill another niche. just NO, bad idea
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 375	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:54:00 - [23] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: GoD-NoVa wrote: Right now the burst AR and TAC AR are useless. I think they need to have their recoil reduced. Last build before the AR nerf, TAC and Burst ARs were more fun to use. But now they are extinct and they remove the excitement i had from using them. The recoil on the TAC AR is more like a bounce and it should have a slight decrease in the amount of bounce it has. can agree there G. the burst is crappy since of the 7 rnd burst b/c the 1st & last usually dont hit & has a "uncontrollable" recoil pattern. best thing would probably breduce burst recoil to nothing like it was in codex (and should since is going to rnd burst). TAR needs a lower ROF, that will hinder those who "used" modded controllers. The breach needs a slight increase in ROF. that will probably solve the uselessness of the AR variantions Actually breach probably needs a dmg buff as well because it has a very small range so just a slight increase in the ROF wont be enough to overcome its weakness.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 256	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:11:00 - [24] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Berserker007 wrote: GoD-NoVa wrote: Right now the burst AR and TAC AR are useless. I think they need to have their recoil reduced. Last build before the AR nerf, TAC and Burst ARs were more fun to use. But now they are extinct and they remove the excitement i had from using them. The recoil on the TAC AR is more like a bounce and it should have a slight decrease in the amount of bounce it has. can agree there G. the burst is crappy since of the 7 rnd burst b/c the 1st & last usually dont hit & has a "uncontrollable" recoil pattern. best thing would probably breduce burst recoil to nothing like it was in codex (and should since is going to rnd burst). TAR needs a lower ROF, that will hinder those who "used" modded controllers. The breach needs a slight increase in ROF. that will probably solve the uselessness of the AR variantions Actually breach probably needs a dmg buff as well because it has a very small range so just a slight increase in the ROF wont be enough to overcome its weakness. Nooo, simply for factCCP doesn't know how to do 2 things at once. Let them do one thing first and we can see how it works
EnIgMa99 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 243	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:15:00 - [25] - Quote I would like the TAC Ar to be as it once was, nerf the fire rate if that was the real issue. I have noticed a trend, I have used TAC Ar and everyone on the forum asked for nerfs, now I use the laser rifle and again people ask for nerfs. I think there is another underlying thing behind this.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 460	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:20:00 - [26] - Quote Leave the Burst rifle alone. It's perfectly fine as is. If anything should be done to it, it should be an increase to 5 bullets per burst.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 375	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:23:00 - [27] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Berserker007 wrote: GoD-NoVa wrote: Right now the burst AR and TAC AR are useless. I think they need to have their recoil reduced. Last build before the AR nerf, TAC and Burst ARs were more fun to use. But now they are extinct and they remove the excitement i had from using them. The recoil on the TAC AR is more like a bounce and it should have a slight decrease in the amount of bounce it has. can agree there G. the burst is crappy since of the 7 rnd burst b/c the 1st & last usually dont hit & has a "uncontrollable" recoil pattern. best thing would probably breduce burst recoil to nothing like it was in codex (and should since is going to rnd burst). TAR needs a lower ROF, that will hinder those who "used" modded controllers. The breach needs a slight increase in ROF. that will probably solve the uselessness of the AR variantions Actually breach probably needs a dmg buff as well because it has a very small range so just a slight increase in the ROF wont be enough to overcome its weakness. Nooo, simply for factCCP doesn't know how to do 2 things at once. Let them do one thing first and we can see how it works Sad but probably true....I will conceed this round to you.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 375	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:24:00 - [28] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: Leave the Burst rifle alone. It's perfectly fine as is. If anything should be done to it, it should be an increase to 5 bullets per burst. Um its 7 bullets right now so it would be a decrease.....just noting
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 326	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:25:00 - [29] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: Right now the burst AR and TAC AR are useless. I think they need to have their recoil reduced. Last build before the AR nerf, TAC and Burst ARs were more fun to use. But now they are extinct and they remove the excitement i had from using them. The recoil on the TAC AR is more like a bounce and it should have a slight decrease in the amount of bounce it has. The burst seems fine, I see several people doing well with them. Admittedly I haven't used them myself. And although I'm in favour of a TAC buff, given the lack of effective LR counters, it's possible that the upcoming scrambler rifle will fulfil that role.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 460	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:32:00 - [30] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: Leave the Burst rifle alone. It's perfectly fine as is. If anything should be done to it, it should be an increase to 5 bullets per burst. Um its 7 bullets right now so it would be a decrease.....just noting What? Really? I swear it's 3. I've been using the Allotek Prototype model. Maybe it's different for each model or CCP is showing me 3 bullets leave my barrel when really 7 are being shot. EDIT: I haven't used in a good week or so. Did they patch it?

Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 909	Posted - 2013.03.22 20:48:00 - [31] - Quote Micheal JF wrote: I still think of the TAR as a high damage low RoF weapon I think the damage should be almost doubled and the bounce toned down just a little bit to were it does not kick like the Tac sniper rifle. And I mean the the bounce needs just to be turned down a tiny bit. A little bit to much and it will be broken again and I want some variety in the AR. The TAR does not need to be just another AR with a better zoom and semi auto make it rather different to make it fill another niche. Double the dmg? I understand what you're trying to say...but it's still an Assault Rifle. You're talking about a Battle Rifle which is not the same. The ROF needed to be dropped, and the recoil reduced slightly than what it is now...that I can agree with...but leave the dmg.
Kane Fyea BetaMax. CRONOS. 102	Posted - 2013.03.22 21:14:00 - [32] - Quote The breach AR used to be my favorite until it got nerfed to ****.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1123	Posted - 2013.03.22 21:59:00 - [33] - Quote TAC ARs needed to be nerfed- but again, they weren't nerfed correctly. The RoF should've been lowered instead of increasing recoil.
Micheal JF IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 4	Posted - 2013.03.22 23:06:00 - [34] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Micheal JF wrote: I still think of the TAR as a high damage low RoF weapon I think the damage should be almost doubled and the bounce toned down just a little bit to were it does not kick like the Tac sniper rifle. And I mean the the bounce needs just to be turned down a tiny bit. A little bit to much and it will be broken again and I want some variety in the AR. The TAR does not need to be just another AR with a better zoom and semi auto make it rather different to make it fill another niche. Double the dmg? I understand what you're trying to say...but it's still an Assault Rifle. You're talking about a Battle Rifle which is not the same. The ROF needed to be dropped, and the recoil reduced slightly than what it is now...that I can agree with...but leave the dmg. True double the damage maybe a little high was just trying to put emphasis on it needs more than just the little tweaks people are saying to make it a real weapon in comparison to the regular AR. Toning down the kick and reduce the RoF will not make it worth being used again. It will still be the red headed step child to the LR when it comes to that engagement range and not able to perform in comparison to the reg AR in a closer range. There is no real optimal range in between the two right now so there is no reason to put the TAR there. All it will do is give the people who miss the scopes a less competent rifle than we used to have(in older builds, not now). You are right I am looking for more of a battle rifle and I don't see why the TAR is not capable of filling that role. True the Scramble Rifle is coming in and it may be just around the corner but we don't know what it will do or how it will perform on the battle field. I just want it to find a place to be used again for all of the game, not be good now and go away when we get weapon customization. I feel the same way about the breach just I have never really used it so I don't want to make any comments on how to fix something I have never used before. I finally looked up the TAR damage on the web since I was not on earlier when I made my first post. Yea double would have been way to high sorry for my miscalculation on that maybe 1.3 to 1.5 normal damage now would be reasonable but I would say start low and work from there.
Sylvana Nightwind Expert Intervention Caldari State 134	Posted - 2013.03.23 05:36:00 - [35] - Quote Not really? I've been killing people with TAR no probs and I don't feel like I need to oneshot people.
Covert Clay Covert Sentinels 4	Posted - 2013.03.23 05:57:00 - [36] - Quote Please buff the single shot ARs CCP.
DJINN serious issues Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 7	Posted - 2013.03.23 14:23:00 - [37] - Quote I've lost my reply twice now from doing this on my phone. So computer... I've played exclusively with the TAC and Burst rifles since day one. The proto Burst rifle I feel is ok. Only problem are the basic and advanced varients. They just do comparatively no more damage than their automatic counterparts when considering a "DPS" calculation. The basic and advanced need to be buffed to keep more inline with the spread of other ARs. The TAC rifle has become a new favourite of mine lately. Especialy since no one uses them any more. The TAC rifle has 2 problems. They need a good 6-10% damage boost across the board. All varients need the scoped in turn rate to be the same as the codewish. Fixed. They do not need the kick reduced, and please do not nerf the ROF, although I will admit before I tried the TAC I thought ROF was the trick as well. The reason you don't want to nerf the ROF is because it will completely kill the gun in CQB. This is not a sniper rifle! It is an assault rifle. With the low damage compared to a sniper round, you need that ROF up close to eat up close range targets while hipfiring. The only problem with the TAC across all ranges (aside from the scoped turn speed), is that this gun lacks punch without stacking damage mods. Which is ok in itself. It forces you to play at range a bit. This issue is that as you take stacking penalties, and gain more slots with more advanced tiers of suits, you don't notice the same return on investment as some one with an automatic stacking extenders. If that curve could not drop off so sharply I think it would help the TAC be more viable. Hence the 6-10% damage boost across the board for TAC.
G Torq ALTA B2O 106	Posted - 2013.03.23 18:06:00 - [38] - Quote DJINN serious issues wrote: The reason you don't want to nerf the ROF is because it will completely kill the gun in CQB. This is not a sniper rifle! It is an assault rifle. With the low damage compared to a sniper round, you need that ROF up close to eat up close range targets while hipfiring. I hold to my suggestion for a 400-600 shots-per-minute. If you can depress the trigger faster than 10 times per second, I'd be fairly impressed (it is possible, but difficult)


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