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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 19:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:gbghg wrote:slypie11 wrote:
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill.
Forge guns miss on occasion, the only reason they hit anything is down to user skill, and at least 50% of FG shot at dropships miss because most of the time we're doing our best to be hard to hit, SL on the other hand are a guarenteed hit unless we get out of range. as a SL user myself they take very little skill to use effectively On most maps, against Dropships, Swarm Launchers are just "find, lock, make sure it's not already running from you, fire" but that still takes more skill than some people realise. Most new players forget the underlined step and, as the OP has, complain that Swarms aren't effective. If a Dropship is moving towards you, unless they're REALLY far away, they don't have a chance to run. They WILL get hit and they'll almost certainly die - even a well-fitted Dropship can't take many hits from a Militia Swarm Launcher. Skill with Swarms (as in real skill, not SP investment) allows you to better direct your shots to anticipate possible cover locations, which are rarely a consideration for a Dropship pilot. Novices against Dropships pretty much only need to be told "don't fire unless it's heading towards you" and on almost every map, that will remove the threat of Dropships. But this is the root of my complaint against the turning circle of swarms, if i'm afterburing towards you, you shoot off a swarm, i then fly past the swarm because it was tracking towads me and i had the highest velocity between us, the missiles which in any other game would either lose a lock on at this point or take several seconds to turn turns nearly 180* in an instant and hits home, and the only "skill" involved with swarms is judging how far way the target is, your chances of hitting,k your positioning, and what direction you point the launcher when you fire |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:gbghg wrote:slypie11 wrote:
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill.
Forge guns miss on occasion, the only reason they hit anything is down to user skill, and at least 50% of FG shot at dropships miss because most of the time we're doing our best to be hard to hit, SL on the other hand are a guarenteed hit unless we get out of range. as a SL user myself they take very little skill to use effectively On most maps, against Dropships, Swarm Launchers are just "find, lock, make sure it's not already running from you, fire" but that still takes more skill than some people realise. Most new players forget the underlined step and, as the OP has, complain that Swarms aren't effective. If a Dropship is moving towards you, unless they're REALLY far away, they don't have a chance to run. They WILL get hit and they'll almost certainly die - even a well-fitted Dropship can't take many hits from a Militia Swarm Launcher. Skill with Swarms (as in real skill, not SP investment) allows you to better direct your shots to anticipate possible cover locations, which are rarely a consideration for a Dropship pilot. Novices against Dropships pretty much only need to be told "don't fire unless it's heading towards you" and on almost every map, that will remove the threat of Dropships. But this is the root of my complaint against the turning circle of swarms, if i'm afterburing towards you, you shoot off a swarm, i then fly past the swarm because it was tracking towads me and i had the highest velocity between us, the missiles which in any other game would either lose a lock on at this point or take several seconds to turn turns nearly 180* in an instant and hits home, and the only "skill" involved with swarms is judging how far way the target is, your chances of hitting,k your positioning, and what direction you point the launcher when you fire
CCP certainly need to up their game on the specifics of the SL lock on. Situations akin to the one you describes are inexcusable to dropship pilots, as this thread has certainly proven. But obviously, you people are too stubborn to even consider the proposal I've stated many times. You just can't understand anyone's point of view but your own. Lock on missiles are pointless if they can't outrun the thing their locking on too. There would then have to be countermeasures in place to counter these "skill-less weapons". Next time you reply, please make it relevant. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries
1082
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
The SL is a no-skill weapon. It doesn't pit my flying skill against your ability to track and maintain a lock. You just aim in my general direction and pull the trigger, then hide.
If there is a no-skill weapon in a skill based game, there needs to be a no-skill counter to it.
In this case that could be a chaff system. You see me and fire your auto missiles, I see them and fire my chaff launcher and evade your missiles. You sacrifice a light weapon slot for your launcher and I sacrifice an equipment slot or my chaff launcher, all even.
The problem is the SL out paces a dropship now and there is no counter. We've even seen people requesting SLs be sidearms so they don't have to sacrifice a light weapon slot. That reveals a complete disregard for balance. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:gbghg wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:gbghg wrote:slypie11 wrote:
I think you may have missed my point. I was simply stating why swarm launchers should have a speed buff at the cost of dropships having countermeasures. But since you've brought up the topic of making dust even more realistic, I would like to add my two cents.
We already have AC-130s in the form of orbital strikes. AI mines would take skill ex. finding the best place to put it with the smallest probability of and enemy finding it. I honestly don't understand your remark about "super aim assist" as this currently has no place in real war(unless I'm mistaken).
As for SLs, these do take quite a bit of skill. For example, you must calculate the range so your missiles don't run out of fuel, and you must concentrate on not getting shot while your staring up in the sky. But if your so concerned about your precious dropships, why don't we nerf forge guns. Those take not skill. I mean, you're huge targets. Why don't we nerf blaster tanks too. And while we're at it, why not AV grenades. I mean come on, like those take skill.
Forge guns miss on occasion, the only reason they hit anything is down to user skill, and at least 50% of FG shot at dropships miss because most of the time we're doing our best to be hard to hit, SL on the other hand are a guarenteed hit unless we get out of range. as a SL user myself they take very little skill to use effectively On most maps, against Dropships, Swarm Launchers are just "find, lock, make sure it's not already running from you, fire" but that still takes more skill than some people realise. Most new players forget the underlined step and, as the OP has, complain that Swarms aren't effective. If a Dropship is moving towards you, unless they're REALLY far away, they don't have a chance to run. They WILL get hit and they'll almost certainly die - even a well-fitted Dropship can't take many hits from a Militia Swarm Launcher. Skill with Swarms (as in real skill, not SP investment) allows you to better direct your shots to anticipate possible cover locations, which are rarely a consideration for a Dropship pilot. Novices against Dropships pretty much only need to be told "don't fire unless it's heading towards you" and on almost every map, that will remove the threat of Dropships. But this is the root of my complaint against the turning circle of swarms, if i'm afterburing towards you, you shoot off a swarm, i then fly past the swarm because it was tracking towads me and i had the highest velocity between us, the missiles which in any other game would either lose a lock on at this point or take several seconds to turn turns nearly 180* in an instant and hits home, and the only "skill" involved with swarms is judging how far way the target is, your chances of hitting,k your positioning, and what direction you point the launcher when you fire CCP certainly need to up their game on the specifics of the SL lock on. Situations akin to the one you describes are inexcusable to dropship pilots, as this thread has certainly proven. But obviously, you people are too stubborn to even consider the proposal I've stated many times. You just can't understand anyone's point of view but your own. Lock on missiles are pointless if they can't outrun the thing their locking on too. There would then have to be countermeasures in place to counter these "skill-less weapons". Next time you reply, please make it relevant. We're not being stubborn we're just saying that right now there's no need for this and it should only be implemented after we get countermeasures and fighters where a higher speed will be required, and traditionally you see different types of missiles used to target aircraft and ground vehicles, one has a high speed but low payload, the other a slower speed but higher payload, the swarms seem to currently sit at a compromise point between the two methodologies.
and I reserve the right to go slightly of topic |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
THIS IS WHAT I WAS SAYING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! Also there is a need for this right now since ground to air missiles goin slower than a dropship throws any sense of realism out the window. But seeing as dropships would be blown out of the sky as soon as they got in the air, they would certainly need countermeasures before SLs got any of the buffs they so desperately need |
bacon blaster
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
XV1 wrote:Most dropships seem to ust outrun my swarm missiles, making them rather difficult to take down. I can normally get 1 shot in with swarm launcher then the ship just flys away staying just ahead of my missiles until they blow up in mid air. Is there something I don't know or is this a common occurance. Swarm missiles seem to be designed to take down arial vehicles yet they seem to be ultimately best against LAVs.
Also has anyone brought up a topic concerning making the swarm missiles more like EVE allowing for different damage type from missiles? Would make taking down shield based vehicles much more manageable with SL.
Step one: Use more than militia swarms. Step two: Learn what is more effective against who.
Swarmers are most effective against armor, but suffer reduced effectiveness against shields. To deal with shield tanked vehicles, go with forge guns.
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 20:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:THIS IS WHAT I WAS SAYING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! Also there is a need for this right now since ground to air missiles goin slower than a dropship throws any sense of realism out the window. But seeing as dropships would be blown out of the sky as soon as they got in the air, they would certainly need countermeasures before SLs got any of the buffs they so desperately need on what you were saying about realism
Quote:and traditionally you see different types of missiles used to target aircraft and ground vehicles, one has a high speed but low payload, the other a slower speed but higher payload, the swarms seem to currently sit at a compromise point between the two methodologies. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
well my two cents as i gave up reading somewhere on the second page is to change the skill from blast range(lol pointless now) to speed of missiles as this would give reason to skill into this without buffing the free fit without cause.
dropship can outrun swarms, seen it tons since the "nerf" of afterburners. better dropships already are a pain to shoot down with missiles if you can due to the really slow speed of missiles and using a forge is ok but has a slow moving round making it somewhat of skill on the players part.
only dropships i shoot down with missiles were bad pilots who didn't have a much more then the base fit militia dropship and honestly i see no reason to skill into SL till the skill for it is reworked. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Actually, that's not a bad idea. Realistically, all missiles would be faster than dropships, but for the sake of "balance" I think I could deal with this. |
copy left
BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
NO. Dropships can barely get away from swarms, and when the whole enemy team decides to pick on a dropship. hell no. |
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slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Have you been reading the rest of the posts? |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
copy left wrote:NO. Dropships can barely get away from swarms, and when the whole enemy team decides to pick on a dropship. hell no. you have not been on both sides have you? btw its not barely they can out run swarms as they are slightly faster then the base as it is now without afterburners. with afterburners lol pull out a fogre gun as thats only the way your going to hit a decent DS pilot. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
798
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
ladwar wrote:copy left wrote:NO. Dropships can barely get away from swarms, and when the whole enemy team decides to pick on a dropship. hell no. you have not been on both sides have you? btw its not barely they can out run swarms as they are slightly faster then the base as it is now without afterburners. with afterburners lol pull out a fogre gun as thats only the way your going to hit a decent DS pilot. have you shot at a dropship since the patch? we could outrun the swarms before, we can't now. we can get out of range before the swarms hit if we already have some distance but we can't outrun them like before |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
i have and only the first volley hit and all the rest were misses, he didn't run till after the second volley was fired which missed, no afterburner used. he was 60m above me. |
Solo 2Forty
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
anyway, SL are useless. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
188
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
Solo 2Forty wrote:anyway, SL are useless. As a former HAV driver, I disagree. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2107
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
ladwar wrote:i have and only the first volley hit and all the rest were misses, he didn't run till after the second volley was fired which missed, no afterburner used. he was 60m above me. Unless he got terrain or building between him and your missiles, I'm inclined to not believe this story, since even with Militia Swarms, this has never happened to me.
And I've had a target at about 60m that started moving as my second lock was acquired, and couldn't build up the necessary speed to escape them. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
no terrain or building just explodes mid air chasing the dropship. was kindof mad but i pulled out my assault forge gun and made him slam into a building after the second shot. anyways been thinking about and militia SL need more nerf hammers so make them slower then the rest while standard and higher have the same (base) and having the skill increase the missiles speed by 2% each level so there is a reason to skill into them. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 01:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
ladwar wrote:no terrain or building just explodes mid air chasing the dropship. was kindof mad but i pulled out my assault forge gun and made him slam into a building after the second shot. anyways been thinking about and militia SL need more nerf hammers so make them slower then the rest while standard and higher have the same (base) and having the skill increase the missiles speed by 2% each level so there is a reason to skill into them.
No thanks, militia SLs are slow enough already |
XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 19:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
copy left wrote:NO. Dropships can barely get away from swarms, and when the whole enemy team decides to pick on a dropship. hell no.
So for some reason you think that when the ENTIRE enemy team picks on you that you should be able to just move away and not suffer a loss? |
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XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 19:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
This has gotten quite off topic I simply think that SL need an entire overhall. Maybe make little less damage per missile, slightly faster or give skill speed increase instead of useless skill now and perhaps lower tracking ability to allow DS to dodge them with proper maneuvers. Overall I would like to see a heavy increase on speed and heavy decrease on tracking.
BTW to those that think tanks would have to TANK the damage with SL speed increase...... its called a tank. |
XV1
Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 19:27:00 -
[52] - Quote
Also has anyone noticed that getting an actual kill from shooting down a DS is difficult, even when you actually shoot them to zero armor they still get plenty of time to bail and avoid death. |
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