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Swarm Missies are faster than a DS on AB

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Skihids The Tritan Industries 1045	Posted - 2013.03.19 16:49:00 - [1] - Quote I confirmed that Swarm Missiles are now faster than a dropship under full Afterburner. The other team was redlined on Manus Peak so they could only fire from one side of the map. I took a couple hits and bugged out to my base from the center of their line and was hit by swarms when I was in full afterburner mode with the cheesy warp effect. So dropships have gone from being able to outrun swarms in normal flight, to needing AB, to being unable to outrun them at all. It appears the only defense left is to be out of range or hiding behind cover. That pretty much means the enemy must be contained on one side of the map or there will be no spot out of range or under cover to run to. You still need the AB to get out of range before you take too many hits, but now you need to bug out well in advance as you will take additional hits until you get out of range. I sure hope we get an eWar module to spoof missiles in the next build, and I hope I don't have to use the clumsy selection wheel to activate it.
Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1093	Posted - 2013.03.19 16:57:00 - [2] - Quote Skihids wrote: I confirmed that Swarm Missiles are now faster than a dropship under full Afterburner. The other team was redlined on Manus Peak so they could only fire from one side of the map. I took a couple hits and bugged out to my base from the center of their line and was hit by swarms when I was in full afterburner mode with the cheesy warp effect. So dropships have gone from being able to outrun swarms in normal flight, to needing AB, to being unable to outrun them at all. It appears the only defense left is to be out of range or hiding behind cover. That pretty much means the enemy must be contained on one side of the map or there will be no spot out of range or under cover to run to. You still need the AB to get out of range before you take too many hits, but now you need to bug out well in advance as you will take additional hits until you get out of range. I sure hope we get an eWar module to spoof missiles in the next build, and I hope I don't have to use the clumsy selection wheel to activate it. Honestly, Swarm Missiles shouldn't have a maximum range but instead a timer designated to indicate how much fuel the missile has to burn. This way you could perhaps use a Stasis Webifier to reduce their speed, forcing them to burn off more of their fuel in order for you to both gain some distance from them and to reduce their effective time. Just a thought though. Would be very difficult to implement but it would make things intriguing, imo.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 172	Posted - 2013.03.19 17:09:00 - [3] - Quote I snuck into CCP HQ last night and got a hold of the patch notes for their next release. Here's the stuff related to dropships: Quote: Rescaled all dropship HP. Dropships now have the same shield/hull as an assault suit Reworked weapon efficiencies vs dropships. Changed efficiencies from small arms (ARs, pistols, etc) vs dropships from 5% to 250%. Dropship flight ceiling reduced to ten meters. Watch out for hills. Forge Guns now have a lock-on when targeting dropships. Forge gun rounds will track dropships. Increased number of missiles fired by all swarm launchers by a factor of 10. Any missiles left over after killing the dropship will follow the pilot (into future matches if necessary) and kill any other dropships they call in. Extended dropship collision damage to include brownian particles in the air such as dust, dander, and pollen. Removed kill assist warpoints for pilots.
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1045	Posted - 2013.03.19 17:16:00 - [4] - Quote CCP (Pollen) Skihids
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2013.03.19 17:18:00 - [5] - Quote I think missiles should be able to outrun dropships. Missiles go that fast in real life. I think that missiles should just have clumsier lock ons. Also, dropships should have some kind of counter maneuver like flak or flares. Then, there could be two kinds of missiles, heat seeking and radar lock missiles. Then, the pilot would have to chose between equipping flak and flares
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1046	Posted - 2013.03.19 17:55:00 - [6] - Quote Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: I snuck into CCP HQ last night and got a hold of the patch notes for their next release. Here's the stuff related to dropships: Quote: Rescaled all dropship HP. Dropships now have the same shield/hull as an assault suit Reworked weapon efficiencies vs dropships. Changed efficiencies from small arms (ARs, pistols, etc) vs dropships from 5% to 250%. Dropship flight ceiling reduced to ten meters. Watch out for hills. Forge Guns now have a lock-on when targeting dropships. Forge gun rounds will track dropships. Increased number of missiles fired by all swarm launchers by a factor of 10. Any missiles left over after killing the dropship will follow the pilot (into future matches if necessary) and kill any other dropships they call in. Extended dropship collision damage to include brownian particles in the air such as dust, dander, and pollen. Removed kill assist warpoints for pilots. I found some preliminary concept work they did on this at the 3 min 16 sec mark.
Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 54	Posted - 2013.03.19 18:18:00 - [7] - Quote slypie11 wrote: I think missiles should be able to outrun dropships. Missiles go that fast in real life. I think that missiles should just have clumsier lock ons. Also, dropships should have some kind of counter maneuver like flak or flares. Then, there could be two kinds of missiles, heat seeking and radar lock missiles. Then, the pilot would have to chose between equipping flak and flares +1
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1046	Posted - 2013.03.19 19:12:00 - [8] - Quote slypie11 wrote: I think missiles should be able to outrun dropships. Missiles go that fast in real life. I think that missiles should just have clumsier lock ons. Also, dropships should have some kind of counter maneuver like flak or flares. Then, there could be two kinds of missiles, heat seeking and radar lock missiles. Then, the pilot would have to chose between equipping flak and flares Yes, because that way a pilot would always be wrong half the time, and the AV guy could swap out to the other variant in the event he picked the same one the pilot did. That way we ensure the eWar modules are worthless before they even get deployed and increase the pilots frustration level to the maximum.
Chris F2112 Killshot Corp 5	Posted - 2013.03.19 19:19:00 - [9] - Quote Dropships definitely need some kind of countermeasure. Taking shots and having to hide isn't really a good solution, especially since it's much more difficult to hide in a dropship than it is in a ground vehicle. Having a one shot flare that restocks every so often would be ideal against those pesky swarm launchers.
Thor Odinson42 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 33	Posted - 2013.03.19 19:21:00 - [10] - Quote Skihids wrote: slypie11 wrote: I think missiles should be able to outrun dropships. Missiles go that fast in real life. I think that missiles should just have clumsier lock ons. Also, dropships should have some kind of counter maneuver like flak or flares. Then, there could be two kinds of missiles, heat seeking and radar lock missiles. Then, the pilot would have to chose between equipping flak and flares Yes, because that way a pilot would always be wrong half the time, and the AV guy could swap out to the other variant in the event he picked the same one the pilot did. That way we ensure the eWar modules are worthless before they even get deployed and increase the pilots frustration level to the maximum. So the alternative should be that Dropships don't die?

Skihids The Tritan Industries 1046	Posted - 2013.03.19 20:02:00 - [11] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Skihids wrote: slypie11 wrote: I think missiles should be able to outrun dropships. Missiles go that fast in real life. I think that missiles should just have clumsier lock ons. Also, dropships should have some kind of counter maneuver like flak or flares. Then, there could be two kinds of missiles, heat seeking and radar lock missiles. Then, the pilot would have to chose between equipping flak and flares Yes, because that way a pilot would always be wrong half the time, and the AV guy could swap out to the other variant in the event he picked the same one the pilot did. That way we ensure the eWar modules are worthless before they even get deployed and increase the pilots frustration level to the maximum. So the alternative should be that Dropships don't die? The eWar module would have a cool down that would prevent constant missile evasion. Meanwhile forge guns, laser rifles, HMGs, and the new flavors of AV to come can still continue to harm them and the stasis gun will hold them in place for all your AV to whack it like a pi+¦ata.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 698	Posted - 2013.03.19 20:29:00 - [12] - Quote Skihids wrote: I confirmed that Swarm Missiles are now faster than a dropship under full Afterburner. The other team was redlined on Manus Peak so they could only fire from one side of the map. I took a couple hits and bugged out to my base from the center of their line and was hit by swarms when I was in full afterburner mode with the cheesy warp effect. So dropships have gone from being able to outrun swarms in normal flight, to needing AB, to being unable to outrun them at all. It appears the only defense left is to be out of range or hiding behind cover. That pretty much means the enemy must be contained on one side of the map or there will be no spot out of range or under cover to run to. You still need the AB to get out of range before you take too many hits, but now you need to bug out well in advance as you will take additional hits until you get out of range. I sure hope we get an eWar module to spoof missiles in the next build, and I hope I don't have to use the clumsy selection wheel to activate it. +1, look in the dropship feedback thread, plenty of ideas in there and it helps keep all the ideas in one place, and yeah i've not been able to outrun swarms either, the only thing I can approve of is how much better the afterburner's handling has got though. here's the thread link https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62202&p=1
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 3	Posted - 2013.03.19 21:41:00 - [13] - Quote Skihids wrote: slypie11 wrote: I think missiles should be able to outrun dropships. Missiles go that fast in real life. I think that missiles should just have clumsier lock ons. Also, dropships should have some kind of counter maneuver like flak or flares. Then, there could be two kinds of missiles, heat seeking and radar lock missiles. Then, the pilot would have to chose between equipping flak and flares Yes, because that way a pilot would always be wrong half the time, and the AV guy could swap out to the other variant in the event he picked the same one the pilot did. That way we ensure the eWar modules are worthless before they even get deployed and increase the pilots frustration level to the maximum. This happens in ground combat. One person picks a weapon that is good against shields, and the person he is fighting is an armor tank, and vice versa
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1048	Posted - 2013.03.19 22:04:00 - [14] - Quote slypie11 wrote: Skihids wrote: slypie11 wrote: I think missiles should be able to outrun dropships. Missiles go that fast in real life. I think that missiles should just have clumsier lock ons. Also, dropships should have some kind of counter maneuver like flak or flares. Then, there could be two kinds of missiles, heat seeking and radar lock missiles. Then, the pilot would have to chose between equipping flak and flares Yes, because that way a pilot would always be wrong half the time, and the AV guy could swap out to the other variant in the event he picked the same one the pilot did. That way we ensure the eWar modules are worthless before they even get deployed and increase the pilots frustration level to the maximum. This happens in ground combat. One person picks a weapon that is good against shields, and the person he is fighting is an armor tank, and vice versa Only now you have to choose armor or shields, and chaff or flares. Once you have made those two choices your AV opponent gets to chose which one of his weapons will counter your choice. If he guesses wrong he just swaps out for the other at the nearest SD, meanwhile you are stuck with your choice until he destroys your vehicle.
2100 Angels The Southern Legion 17	Posted - 2013.03.19 22:35:00 - [15] - Quote this was something that always bothered me about dropships and swarms, thank god they fixed it. IRL we have missles capable of 4-5 Mach and able to pull 40-50 G turns.... once you're in the kill zone range theres not much you can do to outrun them... and I'm glad this is reflected in the game now. Dropship chaff and Defender missles should be enabled though.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 178	Posted - 2013.03.19 22:46:00 - [16] - Quote Missiles like that are also meant to travel for miles to strike something travelling at mach 2 or 3 several kilometers in the air. This is one of those cases where realistic weapons aren't helpful to the discussion. We can't have mach 2 dropships (they would be completely unflyable), so we also can't have mach 4 missiles. I mean, hell, good luck activating countermeasures in time when a mach 4 missile is coming at your from 70 meters away.
Don Von Hulio UnReaL. 139	Posted - 2013.03.19 23:08:00 - [17] - Quote I actually just want the swarms to travel as fast as they were in the DUST videos. But ya, this is how it needs to to be. The ships should not be able to just outrun the swarms flat out.
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1051	Posted - 2013.03.20 02:50:00 - [18] - Quote Fine, make swarm missles realistic: Make them fast Make them light weapons that any suit can carry. Make them guided Make them no-skill Allow them to fire behind cover Make them free - no wait, those things cost a fortune each Then let's make a dropship's defenses realistic. Give them a missile lockon and launch warning system along with an automated chaff/flare system just like aircraft have today. I don't need much advancement over what an F-16 stocks, 60 chaff pods and 30 flares will do. I'll take that as an eWar module.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 130	Posted - 2013.03.20 03:58:00 - [19] - Quote To the op : swarms should be faster than dropships in all cases.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3204	Posted - 2013.03.20 04:10:00 - [20] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: To the op : swarms should be faster than dropships in all cases. That's BS, players get swarm launchers for FREE, require no skill to use (just lock on and fire). Dropships on the other hand take skill to pilot, and are considerably more expensive. There is no reason why swarms should be faster than dropships if afterburners are active.

Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 181	Posted - 2013.03.20 04:37:00 - [21] - Quote Swarms can be faster than dropships if there's some other means to avoid them. There just...isn't right now.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 248	Posted - 2013.03.20 06:23:00 - [22] - Quote Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: I snuck into CCP HQ last night and got a hold of the patch notes for their next release. Here's the stuff related to dropships: -- snip bad news -- You forget to line that clearly states never to let the players know what they screwed up with each server shut down. Of course that presumes they Know they screwed something up.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 17	Posted - 2013.03.20 10:58:00 - [23] - Quote umm no , i just come from a match where a dropship outruned my swarm missles
Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1099	Posted - 2013.03.20 11:34:00 - [24] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: umm no , i just come from a match where a dropship outruned my swarm missles Probably a Caldari variant. I know for a fact that Gallente variant can't outrun them.
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects 67	Posted - 2013.03.20 13:03:00 - [25] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Buster Friently wrote: To the op : swarms should be faster than dropships in all cases. That's BS, players get swarm launchers for FREE, require no skill to use (just lock on and fire). Dropships on the other hand take skill to pilot, and are considerably more expensive. There is no reason why swarms should be faster than dropships if afterburners are active. I've got a myron so I've never had a free slot for an afterburner, but now that I have a good tank (Azeotropic Shield Extender (x2), Clarity Ward Booster, Local Power Diagnostic Unit (x2)) swarms aren't killing me. They may keep me out of the fight, but they are far from deadly. Forges and rails will bring me down, but I don't need to outrun a swarm. I can take probably 6-7 swarm volleys, and I'm never stupid enough to sit around that long.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 19	Posted - 2013.03.20 16:06:00 - [26] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: umm no , i just come from a match where a dropship outruned my swarm missles Probably a Caldari variant. I know for a fact that Gallente variant can't outrun them. i dont know what it was but it outruned my CBR7 launcher
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 19	Posted - 2013.03.20 16:13:00 - [27] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Buster Friently wrote: To the op : swarms should be faster than dropships in all cases. That's BS, players get swarm launchers for FREE, require no skill to use (just lock on and fire). Dropships on the other hand take skill to pilot, and are considerably more expensive. There is no reason why swarms should be faster than dropships if afterburners are active. FREE launchers have trouble sometimes to take out a good fitted LAV and my CBR7 launcher got outruned by a dropship a lot it seems your fitting is weak and when there are multiple dudes aiming at you with launchers be sure you cant outrun them all just because it takes skill to fly a dropship it doesnt mean you should stay up there and kill everyone with ease just saying
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1251	Posted - 2013.03.20 18:16:00 - [28] - Quote Skihids wrote: I confirmed that Swarm Missiles are now faster than a dropship under full Afterburner. The other team was redlined on Manus Peak so they could only fire from one side of the map. I took a couple hits and bugged out to my base from the center of their line and was hit by swarms when I was in full afterburner mode with the cheesy warp effect. So dropships have gone from being able to outrun swarms in normal flight, to needing AB, to being unable to outrun them at all. It appears the only defense left is to be out of range or hiding behind cover. That pretty much means the enemy must be contained on one side of the map or there will be no spot out of range or under cover to run to. You still need the AB to get out of range before you take too many hits, but now you need to bug out well in advance as you will take additional hits until you get out of range. I sure hope we get an eWar module to spoof missiles in the next build, and I hope I don't have to use the clumsy selection wheel to activate it. NO aerial vehicle in reality can outrun a guided missile, mostly because the only way a missile is even useful is to be able to outpace it's target and kill it. This is not something to complain about.
Sev Alcatraz The Tritan Industries 196	Posted - 2013.03.20 19:04:00 - [29] - Quote Balls to it, get rid of the locking system, give them a minimal effective range, make them take skill to use, it's just as bad on the ground when your AV vs HAV/LAV, they say go around a corner they can't follow you, yes they do! you can't run form a weapon that is idiot proof.... -Make them guided so the shooter needs to physically guide them to there target and severely limit there range -make them single shot dumb fire and very fast or remove the damn things and nerf av because vehicle physics are **** right now and everything is made of paper and glass
Sev Alcatraz The Tritan Industries 196	Posted - 2013.03.20 19:06:00 - [30] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Buster Friently wrote: To the op : swarms should be faster than dropships in all cases. That's BS, players get swarm launchers for FREE, require no skill to use (just lock on and fire). Dropships on the other hand take skill to pilot, and are considerably more expensive. There is no reason why swarms should be faster than dropships if afterburners are active. FREE launchers have trouble sometimes to take out a good fitted LAV and my CBR7 launcher got outruned by a dropship a lot it seems your fitting is weak and when there are multiple dudes aiming at you with launchers be sure you cant outrun them all just because it takes skill to fly a dropship it doesnt mean you should stay up there and kill everyone with ease just saying You do realize Skhids literally wrote the book on drop ships right? If anyone knows drop ships or anything about flying (because he is a real pilot) it is skhids



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