DUST Search - Dust514-EVE ISK transfer balancing

The dark cloud wrote:

Well the more this game is progressing the more it becomes obvious that having a friend in eve could be beneficial. Im talking about ISK transfer between both games. Well here some background for those who joined in the open beta:
during the closed beta there was a option to actually transfer ISK from Eve to Dust514. This caused for a short time a insane inbalance cause there was no limit on how much ISK could be transfered. But it was aswell interesting to see the impact on dust (this all happend on the Sisi server). The devs stated that this was not intended at that point (yet) cause the market was not playerdriven at that stage of the beta. However this function was there and if something was there then i have to assume that we will encounter it again at some point. My problem is that a guy in eve could drop billions of ISK to his dust char and be aible to allways afford the best gear avaible. In my opinion there should be a limitation on how much ISK you can transfer from Eve to dust. I was thinking of around 15-20 million per week and then rise the limit slowly. Other people suggested high TAX rate like 90% but that would be silly cause Dust ISK=Eve ISK. Same currency in the same universe. And to avoid a "workaround" like giving multiple chars like 15-20 million ISK each and then transfering on dust to each other i would suggest to have this limit not applied to the dust merc itself more like to the whole account.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1123	Posted - 2013.03.13 02:53:00 - [1] - Quote Well the more this game is progressing the more it becomes obvious that having a friend in eve could be beneficial. Im talking about ISK transfer between both games. Well here some background for those who joined in the open beta: during the closed beta there was a option to actually transfer ISK from Eve to Dust514. This caused for a short time a insane inbalance cause there was no limit on how much ISK could be transfered. But it was aswell interesting to see the impact on dust (this all happend on the Sisi server). The devs stated that this was not intended at that point (yet) cause the market was not playerdriven at that stage of the beta. However this function was there and if something was there then i have to assume that we will encounter it again at some point. My problem is that a guy in eve could drop billions of ISK to his dust char and be aible to allways afford the best gear avaible. In my opinion there should be a limitation on how much ISK you can transfer from Eve to dust. I was thinking of around 15-20 million per week and then rise the limit slowly. Other people suggested high TAX rate like 90% but that would be silly cause Dust ISK=Eve ISK. Same currency in the same universe. And to avoid a "workaround" like giving multiple chars like 15-20 million ISK each and then transfering on dust to each other i would suggest to have this limit not applied to the dust merc itself more like to the whole account.
Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 214	Posted - 2013.03.13 02:57:00 - [2] - Quote I have my miner ready to be activated once this happens. I will just make stay in like .5 and mine the **** out of asteroids to give to this character.
Kas Croixe Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 17	Posted - 2013.03.13 02:58:00 - [3] - Quote so someone shouldn't be able to use what they earned / stole fair and square?
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2306	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:02:00 - [4] - Quote I will look forward to this transfer, Kids running in expensive gear will make the payouts even better
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1232	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:05:00 - [5] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: I will look forward to this transfer, Kids running in expensive gear will make the payouts even better Exactly. Don't fear this change. Get your guns ready.
Dalton Smithe OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 63	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:08:00 - [6] - Quote Limiting ISK transfers won't do anything. People will just create the suits in EVE and contact them to their toon here in dust for 1 ISK.
Kas Croixe Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 17	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:09:00 - [7] - Quote I love pubstomps for just this kind of reason. at the point they start fielding proto gear, its no longer about winning, it's about putting them as far in the red for that particular match as I possibly can.
Geth Massredux ZionTCD Legacy Rising 96	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:38:00 - [8] - Quote Fraceska wrote: I have my miner ready to be activated once this happens. I will just make stay in like .5 and mine the **** out of asteroids to give to this character. This is probably the reason why its taking so long for CCP to release any transfer of isk from eve to dust. They know that players with EVE accounts or players with good buddys on EVE side will throw dust mercs Isk like crazy. So expect heavily taxed system between both games. BAHAHAH
Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 215	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:40:00 - [9] - Quote She is currently sitting on 120mil ISK sooooo ^_^
Temujin Khasar Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.03.13 03:57:00 - [10] - Quote Fraceska wrote: I have my miner ready to be activated once this happens. I will just make stay in like .5 and mine the **** out of asteroids to give to this character. This is probably why it hasn't happened yet. My EVE pilot has a few hundred million isk. Some pilots have billions. Imagine how many HAVs and Dropships will spam the maps, non-stop. Imagine the balance issues between an EVE funded merc and a merc without EVE isk. You could spawn your most expensive fits multiple times with EVE isk, in every match. Solution might be to just increase the prices of DUST items to match the prices of EVE items, but I cant see paying a few mil for a gun. The isk payoff for wins would also need to be increased. Handheld guns will need to cost the same as starship turrets, or how can there be balance? I'm dying to transfer a few million isk to my DUST toon but then I realize it would make things just way too easy...

Blackie 71 Ground Pounders Inc. 5	Posted - 2013.03.13 04:00:00 - [11] - Quote Fraceska wrote: I have my miner ready to be activated once this happens. I will just make stay in like .5 and mine the **** out of asteroids to give to this character. Hellz Yeah!!!!!
Val'herik Dorn CrimeWave Syndicate 330	Posted - 2013.03.13 04:04:00 - [12] - Quote Isk transer from eve to dust is gonna be taxed crazy hard to avoid just that sort of problem. Although crontracts may be an issue but who knows at this point in the game they could just as likely just make everything crazy hard to manufacture and drive the prices up that way.
The Loathing The Southern Legion 28	Posted - 2013.03.13 04:14:00 - [13] - Quote Either way, balancing the ISK transferred will only make a minor difference. No matter how they implement it, players with Eve contacts/alts will always have an advantage over solo Dust players........just like real life. And isn't that what we keep asking for in the game: realism?
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 17	Posted - 2013.03.13 05:00:00 - [14] - Quote Supply and demand. We have not touched on the real "problem" of who is going to be making our gear and will we have to travel to buy it like in EVE. Proto gear will have to be made from resources used to make space ships and it cost ISK to build ships and on top of that the manufacturer want to profit from it. If the proto gear you want is 5 jumps away in 0.3 then how do you get it to where you are? Will we have to make a contract to have it delivered by an EVE pilot only to have it destroyed en route or stolen? I have had to fly lots of jumps just to get a t2 version of something. What will be the logistics of the gear we use? Will I need to buy five Vipers three days in advance so they will be there in time? ISK isn't going to be the problem, logistics is. A good corp who taxes and spends well will have more ISK than any small poorly ran corp or player.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 27	Posted - 2013.03.13 08:30:00 - [15] - Quote The way to fix this is not to prevent or limit ISK transfer. It is to adjust Dust's ISK side to match eve. That is, probably, increase match ISK rewards and probably increase item costs by a similar factor.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 85	Posted - 2013.03.13 08:56:00 - [16] - Quote Winsaucerer wrote: The way to fix this is not to prevent or limit ISK transfer. It is to adjust Dust's ISK side to match eve. That is, probably, increase match ISK rewards and probably increase item costs by a similar factor. that in itself is quite an issue, if i play on my Eve toon i can make 100m isk an hour in my Tengu (2-3 Billion Isk fitted Tactical Cruiser), if i play Dust and manage 4-5 games in an hour i can make 1-2m isk. Though if my tengu blows up i loose 3 Billion Isk, if i die in my dropsuit i loose 100k Isk.
Midas Man ll Talon Strike Force LTD Sleepless Knights Alliance 55	Posted - 2013.03.13 09:19:00 - [17] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Well the more this game is progressing the more it becomes obvious that having a friend in eve could be beneficial. Im talking about ISK transfer between both games. Well here some background for those who joined in the open beta: during the closed beta there was a option to actually transfer ISK from Eve to Dust514. This caused for a short time a insane inbalance cause there was no limit on how much ISK could be transfered. But it was aswell interesting to see the impact on dust (this all happend on the Sisi server). The devs stated that this was not intended at that point (yet) cause the market was not playerdriven at that stage of the beta. However this function was there and if something was there then i have to assume that we will encounter it again at some point. My problem is that a guy in eve could drop billions of ISK to his dust char and be aible to allways afford the best gear avaible. In my opinion there should be a limitation on how much ISK you can transfer from Eve to dust. I was thinking of around 15-20 million per week and then rise the limit slowly. Other people suggested high TAX rate like 90% but that would be silly cause Dust ISK=Eve ISK. Same currency in the same universe. And to avoid a "workaround" like giving multiple chars like 15-20 million ISK each and then transfering on dust to each other i would suggest to have this limit not applied to the dust merc itself more like to the whole account. Whats to stop "Random Eve Corp" setting up a contract for against "Random Eve alt Corp" for control of a planet using mercenaries, offing the "Random Dust Corp" 100 billion ISK to take control of X area on X planet in X system that is currently controlled by "Random Dust alt Corp". Obviously "Random Dust alt Corp" would also be in my pay and would turn up with 1 player and hide in the red line. Once "Random Eve Corp" control X area on X planet in X system a new contract is set up for 100 billion ISK, this time the reverse happens. now my 2 dust corps are super rich through gaming contracts between themselves. No risk major reward. This is just off the top of my head, but basically, nothing will stop DUSTers getting super rich from Eve folk. You will see the same player driven market prices. ie All useless mods will be cheap as chips - around base value of the component part if manufacturing is introduced to Dust items, if not they will crash well below NPC price as people sell for whatever they can get on the market. Lots of super rich player will be fighting over the few usefull officer mods and like in eve these will become super expensive toys for rich folk to play with and cry over losing. Some of the top end officer mods in eve go for multiple billion ISK each. So your "Krins Super charge extra awesom merc desintergrator" (made up item) will cost 10 billion if some rich boy wants to pay this much for a weapon that give him 1 extra dmg per shot over the "Krins Not so Super charge extra awesom merc desintergrator" that cost 50k ISK. Then so be it the extra dmg wont be worth extra cost apart from those that can afford it and dont mind wasting it. If you not a rich corp supported by a rich eve corp you aint going to be battling over the "best" planets. Those that are rich will. If you cannot afford to lose it dont wear it and wear something you can afford. no point going officer fit against random reds in random battles. But if you are a top corp against another top corp expect to wear and lose millions/billions in fits trying to control that planet (all depends on plantet value, if planet is worth nothing to noone then battles wont happen. If its worth 10 k then militia fit. if its worth millions spend thousands etc. There is no issue here.
Blue Buggs L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 19	Posted - 2013.03.13 09:51:00 - [18] - Quote Fraceska wrote: I have my miner ready to be activated once this happens. I will just make stay in like .5 and mine the **** out of asteroids to give to this character. Which 0.5 Will you be mining in again?

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 1172	Posted - 2013.03.13 10:41:00 - [19] - Quote We are aware of the disparity between value of ISK in EVE and DUST. We want the two to come closer together yet need to balance the idea of a gun costing the same as a battleship, that would be no good. The first step in this is going to be getting more income to DUST corporations and giving them something more expensive to spend this new found money on.

A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N 23	Posted - 2013.03.13 11:04:00 - [20] - Quote Before Eve to Dust Isk transfer is set up Dust Merc revenue streams need to be up and running. If Mercs are earning Isk at a similar or at near parity with eve pilots then this should reduce/mitigate the problems stated above. Obviously it would not eliminate it as players who have toons in both eve and dust have far more revenue streams or as already stated may be sitting on massive Isk stockpiles.

Gauder Berwyck Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 230	Posted - 2013.03.13 11:06:00 - [21] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We are aware of the disparity between value of ISK in EVE and DUST. We want the two to come closer together yet need to balance the idea of a gun costing the same as a battleship, that would be no good. The first step in this is going to be getting more income to DUST corporations and giving them something more expensive to spend this new found money on. If you compare to most EVE things, a dropsuit should cost like 0.002 ISK, a rifle 0.001 ISK and so on... We know this isn't going to happen. I think it's gonna be impossible to make these two markets part of the same market, some sort of division will need to be there. But... a dev blog on the future of the shared economy between Dust and EVE would be stellar!
Beld Errmon UnReaL. 521	Posted - 2013.03.13 11:10:00 - [22] - Quote You people worry to much, when the isk via sisi bug was in I had unlimited isk and spread it around, the game play didn't change much at all, you can only drive 1 vehicle at a time and only wear one suit and the good players don't let isk concerns get in the way of using the best to win.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 336	Posted - 2013.03.13 12:04:00 - [23] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: The first step in this is going to be getting more income to DUST corporations and giving them something more expensive to spend this new found money on. MCCs? Warbarges? Research? Manufacturing? Orbital Drop installations? Planetary Infrastructure? Expanded vehicle options? Expanded weapon options? Tech 2? Tech 3? Courier contracts? Market Fees? Broker Fees? Loyalty Point Stores?
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1129	Posted - 2013.03.13 12:12:00 - [24] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: You people worry to much, when the isk via sisi bug was in I had unlimited isk and spread it around, the game play didn't change much at all, you can only drive 1 vehicle at a time and only wear one suit and the good players don't let isk concerns get in the way of using the best to win. Did you where in the tourny? i doubt it. In the final i would say 150-200 million ISK have beeing burned due to the hard competition on both sides. And the infantry-eve pilot balance is not the same. Proto heavys can cost more then frigates. When we get a playerdriven market we should prepare ourself to see a 10X inflation of the value from our equipment. That beeing sayd to hire dust mercs will aswell become 10X more expensive for eve pilots. And depending who is fighting who that cost can rise 100X. And im aware that we havent seen all the equipment yet. We will probs get tech II-III, faction stuff, deadspace equipment and officer equipment on the market which will have insane costs. Dust will become a extreme expensive hobby for eve pilots i can grant you that.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 1181	Posted - 2013.03.13 13:39:00 - [25] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: The first step in this is going to be getting more income to DUST corporations and giving them something more expensive to spend this new found money on. MCCs? Warbarges? Research? Manufacturing? Orbital Drop installations? Planetary Infrastructure? Expanded vehicle options? Expanded weapon options? Tech 2? Tech 3? Courier contracts? Market Fees? Broker Fees? Loyalty Point Stores? Yea, this is a pretty good list and is a small portion of the list we have internally.

iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 338	Posted - 2013.03.13 14:01:00 - [26] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Yea, this is a pretty good list and is a small portion of the list we have internally. Small list? Omg, this could be epic.
Midas Man ll Talon Strike Force LTD Sleepless Knights Alliance 60	Posted - 2013.03.13 14:29:00 - [27] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Yea, this is a pretty good list and is a small portion of the list we have internally. Would it be a better idea to not worry about isk issues and leave them to the player driven market like in eve, just restrict Pub matches to meta 5 or below, hell even Meta 3 and below. This way new players and "Action Man" heros will have somewhere to go, where they cannot be red lined by isk whoring eve pilots like myself. Then the faction warfare/0.0 stuff when implemented can be left to those with ISK as this will be the deciding factor anyway and not much ways to avoid it.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1132	Posted - 2013.03.13 14:30:00 - [28] - Quote lol i can allready see that eve pilots need to pay 1 billion+ to deploy us properly into a match.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 339	Posted - 2013.03.13 14:34:00 - [29] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: lol i can allready see that eve pilots need to pay 1 billion+ to deploy us properly into a match. That's because you are the exception. Most average corps it will be a few million.
Midas Man ll Talon Strike Force LTD Sleepless Knights Alliance 60	Posted - 2013.03.13 14:41:00 - [30] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: lol i can allready see that eve pilots need to pay 1 billion+ to deploy us properly into a match. Which isnt going to happen unless the reward for wining 1 zone, holding 1 zone on a planet rewards billions, which isn't going to happen without causing issues on the isk balance/inflation eve side. ie, If i need to pay a Dust corp 1 billion to win a zone, thats 6 billions to win a planet + however many billion i will need to defend that planet from however many attacks are thrown at me. Now if that needs to happen on all 10+ planets in each system the alliance in Eve wants to own, then it sounds like something that is out of reach for all but the biggest alliances and maybe too much for them if they are getting attacked alot.



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