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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
153
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
This could be an incredibly useful mod for air assaults. Now you can use a dropship to land troops AND keep the dropship on site to support them. Y'know, until someone shows up with a forge gun. |
Coleman Gray
RED COLONIAL MARINES
Covert Intervention
82
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
Really good idea cos it's gonna be hard to hit the misslies anyway without spraying as many bullets as possible so wouldn't be unfair to swarm launcher users since if people are shooting your missles then you can use them as diversions perhaps? every bullet shot at missles would be one less bullet shooting at your team. So I agree with your idea! tis a good one! |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2013.03.13 20:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:I'd perfer a module that shoots down a certain number of swarms per level, since completely removing a form of Av's viability is a terrible idea. I'm thinking have the module shoot 2 missiles down at standard and 1 more at every other tier. But with a max mod you are thereby making a proto swarm automatically worse than a militia would be without that mod. If you simply allow swarms to be shot down, then flanking to a vehicles blind side or getting close enough to prevent all of the swarms from being shot down will still give you full damage with your swarm. It doesn't negate the swarm launcher, it makes you have to use it more intelligently. It does negate the swarm launcher, do you have any idea how slow they are? Imagine having your turret have it's own hp bar which is much lower than the rest of your Hav and getting it destroyed
And in my post I made allowances for buffs to the swarms due to this inconvenience. A speed increase is not an illogical buff for swarms if they can be shot down. Also, my HP figure for each swarm missile is just a random number I plucked out of thin air, it could be adjusted until it worked properly.
You are taking the idea as a concrete unchangeable proposal, when in fact it's a malleable idea that could be tweaked and toyed with to improve the depth of AV and vehicle play. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Really good idea cos it's gonna be hard to hit the misslies anyway without spraying as many bullets as possible so wouldn't be unfair to swarm launcher users since if people are shooting your missles then you can use them as diversions perhaps? every bullet shot at missles would be one less bullet shooting at your team. So I agree with your idea! tis a good one!
Thank you, not many people see the diversionary angle of the idea. They are to focused on trying to find holes in it to see how much benefit it could bring.
Sure, people could try to farm missiles for SP, but while they are shooting into the air, the enemy team is shooting at them. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
458
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
In your scenario my damage can be completely negated without you having to make any sort of sacrifice because your whole team can do so. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2013.03.13 21:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:In your scenario my damage can be completely negated without you having to make any sort of sacrifice because your whole team can do so.
Indeed (I take it I'm the tanker in this example). However, in order to negate your damage I would have to stop everything and focus on stopping your attacks. My gunners would be focused on it as well. I wouldn't be able to try to come after you, I wouldn't be able to kill infantry, I wouldn't be able to look around for an escape route, I wouldn't be able to keep an eye out for people sneaking up on me with AV grenades or kill installations or watch for forge gunners or other tanks or railgun installations or other swarmers, I'd be focused entirely on stopping your volley.
Or I could take the hit and continue what I was doing and try to make a quick getaway. It's risk vs reward. By focusing on taking out your swarms, I'm leaving myself open to MANY more things. If I'm about to loose my tank and I'm running away, my gunners can support me by taking out one or two of those swarms before they hit, but since blasters can only hit them once the swarms get in range (small blasters have a very limited range) they will almost never get all 4~6 of them. Also, 3/4 of the time the front gunner will not be able to see the swarms coming since he sits so low and is unable to get a proper side view, so the only real threats are the top and main turrets.
It makes the swarm more of a support weapon, but it does not negate it. Especially if you buff them to compensate. Also, if you read up through the thread a bit, it's mentioned that you could double the missile count and half the damage of each missile, thus making it harder to hit them all.
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
458
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Posted - 2013.03.13 22:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
The fact that it doesn't have to be you who takes their time to save themselves, all of my potential damage can be negated, and you sacrifice only a bit of time makes this a bad idea |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
252
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Posted - 2013.03.13 23:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:The fact that it doesn't have to be you who takes their time to save themselves, all of my potential damage can be negated, and you sacrifice only a bit of time makes this a bad idea
In Baal's proposal his team can take out your swarms but it's going to be nigh on impossible to take out all of them. Yes it is possible but could be made difficult to extremes. Make each missile 100hp and that's 3 or 4 hits to take each missile down. That makes it an absolute minimum of 12 hits to stop an entire militia swarm just once, increasing to possibly 24 hits for proto swarms depending on what weapon you're using.
Keep in mind that these are rapidly moving tiny projectiles that are swerving all over the place and a sensible team will have more than one person playing AV, so even more swarms to try to shoot down. All the while the tanker is constantly looking over his shoulder to make sure the swarms are still being taken care of and therefore not really performing very well at his role of killing stuff.
You'd get a few seconds to take aim and fire enough shots to land even just a few hits to take out one or two swarms. You're going to be very lucky to take out those two missiles, let alone an entire swarm, unless you have half the team helping out, in which case fantastic diversion and job done. |
trollface dot jpg
Destined 4 Biomass
58
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Posted - 2013.03.14 19:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:The fact that it doesn't have to be you who takes their time to save themselves, all of my potential damage can be negated, and you sacrifice only a bit of time makes this a bad idea
or they could take the extra time to roll behind a hill and negate the damage AND the risk. The chance to shoot them down for points gives them a reason to try to stay in the line of fire when they see swarms coming instead of bolting.
I like this idea. |
2100 Angels
The Southern Legion
17
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
A launcher that could be fit to vehicles that would activate automatically to mitigate swarm damage? FoF/Defender missles? sounds like a great idea to me. |
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
467
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Posted - 2013.03.14 21:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
I still don't like having them all be destroyable by every means, that's why i main a specialized module should just negate some, with the prototype only makind standard swarms useless |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2013.03.14 23:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:It makes the swarm more of a support weapon, but it does not negate it. Especially if you buff them to compensate. Also, if you read up through the thread a bit, it's mentioned that you could double the missile count and half the damage of each missile, thus making it harder to hit them all.
I like the idea of having specialized weapons or weapon modes that focus on anti-missile.
Specifically, in terms of it being done by infantry support, you could have a specialized swarm launcher that is low-damage, high-speed, and fires a lot of missiles, that can be used to lock onto enemy swarm missiles. You'd have to sweep the reticule over each of the missiles in flight, and if you don't get a lock the missile will still get through. So it would be a race to catch all the missiles in flight and shoot them down before they hit the target.
Similarly with vehicles, it will be a trade-off to decide whether you want a defensive turret that does lower damage but is better at defending from swarms and missiles, or an offensive turret that makes it nearly impossible to hit missiles but is much more effective in combat.
It would be great to see an ability to switch modes, if you buy more expensive weapons with that capability. So I'd see an incoming swarm and switch my missile launcher's mode to "flack." Then my missiles will explode in mid-air, sending out shrapnel that will detonate nearby enemy missiles. Blasters could also have a similar slow-firing "flack" mode. Similarly, you could get a swarm launcher that can be switched between anti-vehicle and anti-missile. |
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