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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
312
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 11:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
So don't complain about snipers. Its really not thier fault.
Its CCPs game design. You can't blame people for choosing the path of least resistance.
With a sniper you can fight with almost no attrition(Death), which in turns saves you money, you always end up with a profit both in terms of Isk and the 'all important' K/D ratio. This means you can afford the best equipment and still project force across the battlefield without fear of losing too much 'pro gear' because you're way behind the action. Counter snipers? Please. A sniper dies once, then repositions themselves with view of the enemy while blocking the view of the enemy sniper.
There is a competative social aspect too, well e-peen really. Some players are capable of high kills and low deaths scores running and gunning about on the battlefield, these guys are the twitch super stars. Sniping gives this illusion of this leetness without actually needing the skill to back it up:
"Oh look I came second place after that guy with 34-1 running about in assault with his gek and an organised squad. I must be awesome"
Okay, yes being a good sniper does require some skill. But I'm not talking about that Im talking about joe average running to sniper after they realising they die a lot playing assault/heavy/cqc scout. And I would argue the skill required is much lower than required to be Mr John Q Kickass.
I'm not really sure how to counter the goto sniper culture. I've suggested doubling the cost of all sniper rifles. Removing the militia BPO might be a good idea (arbitors can still keep thiers - mainly because the suit sucks). It might be a non-issue once corporations become more than an intresting side note and we have district warfare.
Do you agree? Disagree? State why.
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Whiisper
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 12:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree on your main point somewhat.
Being a sniper can be a much safer proposition for your average G.I. Joe at first glance and for the most part it is. That is until they zone into a battle with a couple of really good snipers who actually communicate with each other. A point I would like to make is that your Average blueberry will not a lot of impact in the battle. Sure they will score some kills and high five each other but what are they really doing ?
1. They are not lining up fields of fire on two to three objectives so they can slow down enemy hackers. 2. They aren't moving with the squad in order to cover them as they take objectives . 3. They are not calling in enemy movements. 4. They won't come down and help hack objectives when action slows down.
Safe play ? Yeah probably.
Helpful play ? No, not really.
p.s. My points are for most snipers, not all. Their are some really good snipers out there, I've come across the a few who made me grit my teeth lol. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
200
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 13:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Agree on it being the non-resistance way on public, and a good isk generator. The risk is too low, and sniper gear should cost more to compensate.
Sniper skill cap is as high as anything, though. It's a game of target aquisition and precision, with battlefield awareness focus. To really matter, the sniper needs to kill way more than frontline soldiers, because on average he kills a lot of people where it doesn't really matter, as opposed to where the deciding fight is. |
Temujin Khasar
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 13:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
First off, I usually don't like being a sniper. But on these large maps, it is a necessary class. I find myself using it often even if I never do in other FPS's. The reason for that is that they are essential in this type of combat.
It takes a different kind of skill but not any less than an assaulter. How do I know? I play both roles in many FPS's. Those that say sniper is easy either do not try it, or are biased against snipers.
For one, if you rush a sniper, all he has to fall back on is a lame pistol. You at least had a full-auto glock in MOH. All you have to do to defeat a sniper is assault him, either on foot or by vehicle or Dropship. Or, out-snipe him.
He has no cloak or camouflage like in some other games. He is totally exposed once spotted. So there's no way to hide. A Good shiper knows to relocate after every shot or kill. That is just not possible a lot in this game. You are a usually red dot on the radar anyway, even if you move. This is probably one of the hardest classes to get the hang of.
I can't wait to see the complaints if they introduce gunships....
Snipers and other less used classes only seem overpowered because some snipers have become good. They can hit moving targets, which requires a certain "lead" depending on the speed of the target. This is tough if you're up on a mountain and the target is the size of the tiny dot that's supposed to be a crosshair. And people love to bunny hop and strafe like crazy in this game! A really good shot can hit a jumping, moving target.
Those that may argue that snipers ruin this game forget one thing: The whole point of being a sniper or sharpshooter is to kill in one shot, and that is why they are so effective in real life. After that, your target is alerted and your position is blown. While this may seem overpowered, it's the entire point of the sniper class. Just be happy it usually takes more than one shot in DUST, unless you have a nice rifle and fitting. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
312
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 13:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Some really good points raised so far.
Being a sniper is definately too easy, and as a result its impacting on the way others play the game. There is a danger public games will reach a critical mass of snipers. As more new players die to sniper there going to think "why should I die here when I can snipe too".
On reflection and reading the three posts above I think the issue is with the game as it stands at the moment is three things:
1: Sniping is too isk safe, sniper rfiles definately need a cost increase, so a death is worth the same as 5 deaths as any other class.
2: Its too easy to get kills as a result of the environment. Lots od wide open spaces anf the fish bowl valley maps favour sniping. LAVs are too fragile to be the go to personell carrier, that and you can't fit a full squad in one. We need a better tranport veicle.
3: Again environmental; I played the orginal planetside for years. Sniper were there and even the solo sniper was useful, but never seemed unbalanced because if you gave away your position you where instantly close air support bait. This coupled with the fact that there were decent indoor spaces meant snipers had a use but if you wanted to take objective you had to get dirtty with the rest of the grunts. In short: we need better indoor spaces, beyound the one room at CP A or B depending on which map you play.
Disclaimer: I know its still a beta, and I know environments will be iterated upon. But I think its good to get discussions like these out in the open do help steer direction. If someone thinks there is no issue with the sniping class in general, they are not playing the game enough to have experienced the "one man standing phenomenon" when you die to a hail of fire from an organised squad and then you realise the reason you don't have any back up is everyone else is on a mountain taking inadiquate potshots at tanked heavys.
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Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1090
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 14:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
The OP is correct. Sniper fits can be powerful yet inexpensive, die rarely once you get the hang of it, and rack up kills. Decent snipers will easily place highly in matches, and sit atop piles of ISK at the end of it.
This obviously needs to change. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
484
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 14:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:The OP is correct. Sniper fits can be powerful yet inexpensive, die rarely once you get the hang of it, and rack up kills. Decent snipers will easily place highly in matches, and sit atop piles of ISK at the end of it.
So true~
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:This obviously needs to change.
Errr... Why? |
2100 Angels
The Southern Legion
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 14:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
snipers are adequately priced. Running a proto sniper in pub matches becomes very difficult to remain profitable ISK wise. I think the problem is that the basic and militia snipers are slightly too strong. There needs to be more disparity between the rifles. If there was a nerf to the basic/militia rifle of say 10-20 damage, it would be less effective and make it more difficult for the average joe to fall back on it. |
Firestorm Zulu
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
170
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 15:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't have a problem with the nature of snipers. People prefer not to stick their necks out because they tend to get slaughtered on the regular battlefield. This behavior is not specific to Dust. Every FPS has sniper issues and every game has a way of balancing them out so its not so frustrating for people in the trenches.
Dust has yet to balance the sniper in my opinion. Why is every other gun limited by a hard range cap except for the sniper rifle? No reduced damage, no sharpshooter, no bullet drop. Additionally, there is no effective way to drop a sniper outside of your range outside of an orbital strike.
Dying by an unknown sniper in an unknown direction is extremely frustrating. Revealing a location of sniper is important via a mechanic like a kill cam (probably not suitable for dust) or a scope glint like how battlefield 3 approaches it. Additionally, once a sniper is found, I should have some sort of capacity to kill the sniper with the gun I wield and DUST does not provide that unless I walk around with a forge or another sniper rifle (which ultimate contributes to the problem)
The hard range on the assault rifle has eliminate the ability to fight back. That's why bullet drop is the best way to handle range issues, they ability to pull off a long range shot with bullet drop is challenging but not impossible. The better a player is at shooting and playing an FPS (skill) the more chance he/she should have at pulling off long range kill shots with an AR. |
Draykaden
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 15:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
I personally think they are fine the way they are. I would say the problem lies in there being no real incentive of winning the match so it makes since to sit back, get kills and reap a good SP and ISK profit. In terms of sniper hunting the LAV's do a decent job, considering they are free they can get you across the map with no real danger and up the hills where u can hunt them down.
In regards to damage, I have shot assaults, logi's, and heavies(no surprise here) three times and they still didn't go down. I understand that they prolly had shield and armor upgrades but I think it is a relevant point. Could you imagine someone sniping you six times and you still being alive if they nerfed damage? The state in which the game is in does not bode well IMO for a new player starting out if they nerfed Dmg or increased ISK on rifles. You are thrown into matches with people that have 2M + in SP, that know the mechanics of the game better than you, that know more of the sniper spots than you, that are putting vehicles on ridges and sniper hunting or shooting from stationary turrets.
I think they are in a good place, with a team they can support an assault and aid in the capturing of points, as a lone wolf random some of them just care about their k/d. As stated before, the problem lies in the fact that in both scenarios it's possible for the sniper to accrue the same SP and ISK payout in the same match, on opposite sides.
Just my thoughts
Dray~ |
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Jeremiah ambromot
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
8
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 15:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
First I want to say thank you guys for the civil discussion on the topic using actual points.
Now as a self proclaimed "good sniper"(as far as that goes) I can tell you that there is a range on snipers but once you hit sharp shooter iv it includes from one redline halfway into the next on manus peak with the average sniper rifle. The farsight goes further. Before sharpshooter it goes quite a bit shorter. Now sniping has become increasingly boring so I have started messing with the mass driver, tanks, and my militia fits more often than sniping. I believe that most snipers who stick with the game will end up playing other classes more and more often because a team 4-5 snipers just does not get the job done and hopefully they will realize they are not contributing. I think as it is though snipers are fine they just need to work on opening the maps a bit so that you can come up behind the snipers on the mountains not just from their fronts and sides. They also need to fix the sniper rifle saying you are lined up and you hit the ground in front without any damage to the sniper allowing better counter sniping. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2079
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 16:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Sniper skill cap is as high as anything, though. It's a game of target aquisition and precision, with battlefield awareness focus. And don't forget mind reading, you have to pick up and memorize as many different habits and strafe styles as you can. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
294
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 17:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Sniper skill cap is as high as anything, though. It's a game of target aquisition and precision, with battlefield awareness focus. And don't forget mind reading, you have to pick up and memorize as many different habits and strafe styles as you can. Indeed, but... wait... omg... OMG.... Sleepy's Back?! I must have missed your return announcement! Welcome back man, are you planning to start in on Dust again or are you just policing the forums for easy trolls? |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2079
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 17:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Sniper skill cap is as high as anything, though. It's a game of target aquisition and precision, with battlefield awareness focus. And don't forget mind reading, you have to pick up and memorize as many different habits and strafe styles as you can. Indeed, but... wait... omg... OMG.... Sleepy's Back?! I must have missed your return announcement! Welcome back man, are you planning to start in on Dust again or are you just policing the forums for easy trolls? I'm just a warrior of the forums atm.
And I'm not important enough for a return announcement the only reason why I made it public I wasn't going to be playing dust for awhile is because I had no access to my corp chat. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2079
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 17:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:The OP is correct. Sniper fits can be powerful yet inexpensive, die rarely once you get the hang of it, and rack up kills. Decent snipers will easily place highly in matches, and sit atop piles of ISK at the end of it. So true~ Fivetimes Infinity wrote:This obviously needs to change. Errr... Why? Easy exploitable way to gain large sums of isk in matches while padding stats, I can't imagine how that could ever be a problem |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
294
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 17:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Sniper skill cap is as high as anything, though. It's a game of target aquisition and precision, with battlefield awareness focus. And don't forget mind reading, you have to pick up and memorize as many different habits and strafe styles as you can. Indeed, but... wait... omg... OMG.... Sleepy's Back?! I must have missed your return announcement! Welcome back man, are you planning to start in on Dust again or are you just policing the forums for easy trolls? I'm just a warrior of the forums atm. And I'm not important enough for a return announcement the only reason why I made it public I wasn't going to be playing dust for awhile is because I had no access to my corp chat. Well either way, it's nice to know your around. You always manage to spice up a conversation. |
Chojine Dentetsu
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 18:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
People always complain about something they cannot 'seem' to defeat.
Teamwork = dead snipers.
Dust is all about the teamwork.
If you're not prepared to work together, play CoD, and that isn't a trolling comment, it's my honest opinion.
Yes, hill camping snipers are an annoyance, but they are also predictable.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
The real problem is the fact that players refuse to focus their efforts on killing snipers and instead focus all efforts onto objectives.
While this will win the match, it will not kill the camping snipers.
The phrase, I believe, is that you cannot have your cake and eat it.
Put time into actually practicing sniper hunting, instead of constantly running across the same open ground from the same spawn points and dying, then venting on the forums.
My two cents.
Again, my comment is in no way meant to anger anyone, it's just a point of view from playing Dust. |
Heimo Vesa
PERKELE Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 19:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Chojine Dentetsu wrote:...
The real problem is the fact that players refuse to focus their efforts on killing snipers and instead focus all efforts onto objectives.
While this will win the match, it will not kill the camping snipers.
The phrase, I believe, is that you cannot have your cake and eat it.
Put time into actually practicing sniper hunting, instead of constantly running across the same open ground from the same spawn points and dying, then venting on the forums. ...
And that is why I started to improve my sniping skills. I try to hunt down enemy snipers whose are killing my teammates. I can't care less of my K/D ratio. If I can help my team by taking down few snipers and clear the way for my "people", that's more important.
These are all my thoughts. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
315
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 20:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Chojine Dentetsu wrote:People always complain about something they cannot 'seem' to defeat.
Teamwork = dead snipers.
Dust is all about the teamwork.
If you're not prepared to work together, play CoD, and that isn't a trolling comment, it's my honest opinion.
Yes, hill camping snipers are an annoyance, but they are also predictable.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
The real problem is the fact that players refuse to focus their efforts on killing snipers and instead focus all efforts onto objectives.
While this will win the match, it will not kill the camping snipers.
The phrase, I believe, is that you cannot have your cake and eat it.
Put time into actually practicing sniper hunting, instead of constantly running across the same open ground from the same spawn points and dying, then venting on the forums.
My two cents.
Again, my comment is in no way meant to anger anyone, it's just a point of view from playing Dust.
You seemed to have missed the whole point of this thread.
This thread isn't "OMG snipers are overpowered" QQ, "they win all the time because they are so leet and untouchable"
The thread was created to address 2 main issues:
a) Most new players are running to sniper because its heavily incentivised in this game, with little cost and great rewards.
b) A team with half the players hanging out at spawn trying to take potshots and people out of range isn't fun to play with.
Its not really about 'hunting snipers' its about snipers being the perfect way to play dust. And by perfect I mean, score high with little risk. Teamwork isn't an issue, infact its only ever been mentioned in a positive context. And you say people don't want to focus on killing snipers, what? The point is to win the match, what do you expect people to do?
I think you might be on drugs.
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Philipp Achtel
Immobile Infantry
13
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 20:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Its CCPs game design. You can't blame people for choosing the path of least resistance.
With a sniper you can fight with almost no attrition(Death), which in turns saves you money, you always end up with a profit both in terms of Isk and the 'all important' K/D ratio. This means you can afford the best equipment and still project force across the battlefield without fear of losing too much 'pro gear' because you're way behind the action. Counter snipers? Please. A sniper dies once, then repositions themselves with view of the enemy while blocking the view of the enemy sniper.
...
I'm not really sure how to counter the goto sniper culture. I've suggested doubling the cost of all sniper rifles. Removing the militia BPO might be a good idea (arbitors can still keep thiers - mainly because the suit sucks). It might be a non-issue once corporations become more than an intresting side note and we have district warfare.
Do you agree? Disagree? State why.
Your solution to the problem of people sniping to maximize their income is to remove free suits? That makes no sense to me. We want new players to have free suits so they can ease into the game with low financial risk. Remove those suits and you will see more snipers, not less. Removing the sniper BPO in particular might be a good idea, though.
In any case, the solution is to tie income even more directly to the outcome of the match and the warpoints system, so as to make it more profitable to take risks on the front line than to go 4-0 with 200 WP by sniping.
That, and sometimes blueberries need a little "push" from an elder brother in an LAV to get them moving in the right direction. |
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Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
484
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 21:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Rasatsu wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:The OP is correct. Sniper fits can be powerful yet inexpensive, die rarely once you get the hang of it, and rack up kills. Decent snipers will easily place highly in matches, and sit atop piles of ISK at the end of it. So true~ Fivetimes Infinity wrote:This obviously needs to change. Errr... Why? Easy exploitable way to gain large sums of isk in matches while padding stats, I can't imagine how that could ever be a problem Problem... for who? |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 21:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dislike button
Snipers are fine stop trying to funnel the game so everyone just ends up playing front line roles |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 21:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
There are two issues here that immediately come to my mind:
Firstly, because winning the match is of no value, the player-skill to ingame-power ratio of sniping is completely wrong. Snipers can't hack objectives, but since those are useless in skirmish this disadvantage doesn't harm the snipers and thus there's no reason for those players to leave their comfort zone of playing "Dust514 the point-and-click-adventure".
Secondly, getting shot at by a sniper is no fun at all. When getting shot at by a sniper you either drop dead immediately or get into cover and wait 10 seconds for your shields to recharge. Both scenarios aren't fun. If at least snipers had any strategic role in battles that'd be fine, but in the current state of the map design snipers just pop up from random directions with no further meaning to their shots than attempted improvement of the shooter's kdr.
There are a number of ways to fix this. It really depends on which direction CCP wants to take this game. |
Philipp Achtel
Immobile Infantry
14
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 21:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:Dislike button
Snipers are fine stop trying to funnel the game so everyone just ends up playing frontline roles
In an ambush, where the only objective is to win on clones, I would agree. But in skirmish, frontline roles are by far the most important, and players shouldn't be discouraged from pursuing what, in theory, is the objective of the engagement. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 21:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:Dislike button
Snipers are fine stop trying to funnel the game so everyone just ends up playing frontline roles this. i snipe and not to help my K/d right now it 1.4 but i don't always snipe because it gets boring up on that hill top/building. i run the free assault and still top on the wp most of the time. i never understand why people hate snipers, they do a role and the role is based on how good the player is not how the role is op or useless. snniping isn't as easy as it seems more so when all the supply depots are up and someone switch up real quick to take shoots at you. btw the gear is reasonable priced for what it does |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
317
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 21:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:Dislike button
Snipers are fine stop trying to funnel the game so everyone just ends up playing frontline roles
Snipers are fine. Nobody is saying they arn't but there is a logistical unbalance that needs to be addressed.
In my opinion though it's the same as people who sit at the back and do nothing for SP and isk. Only they have a dropsuit and weapon designed to occassionally get some extra cash.
And thats fine.
Only the game encourages EVERYONE to do this, at least in instant battle. Everything should have consiquences, sniping has the least attritional consiquences of all the classes.
At the very least sniper rifles should have thier costs increased to counter balance thier relatively low risk. You can still snipe, it should just cost you more to do so, in terms of isk. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 22:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Johnny Guilt wrote:Dislike button
Snipers are fine stop trying to funnel the game so everyone just ends up playing frontline roles Snipers are fine. Nobody is saying they arn't but there is a logistical unbalance that needs to be addressed. In my opinion though it's the same as people who sit at the back and do nothing for SP and isk. Only they have a dropsuit and weapon designed to occassionally get some extra cash. And thats fine. Only the game encourages EVERYONE to do this, at least in instant battle. Everything should have consiquences, sniping has the least attritional consiquences of all the classes. At the very least sniper rifles should have thier costs increased to counter balance thier relatively low risk. You can still snipe, it should just cost you more to do so, in terms of isk.
then fix the rewards systems not the snipers cost |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 22:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
the reward system does need fixing... darn afk farmers |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
905
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 22:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
My problem isn't that snipers exist, but rather that they are pussies.
And I think that I CAN blame them for that. |
2100 Angels
The Southern Legion
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 00:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Firestorm Zulu wrote: Dust has yet to balance the sniper in my opinion. Why is every other gun limited by a hard range cap except for the sniper rifle? No reduced damage, no sharpshooter, no bullet drop. Additionally, there is no effective way to drop a sniper outside of your range outside of an orbital strike.
Dying by an unknown sniper in an unknown direction is extremely frustrating. Revealing a location of sniper is important via a mechanic like a kill cam (probably not suitable for dust) or a scope glint like how battlefield 3 approaches it. Additionally, once a sniper is found, I should have some sort of capacity to kill the sniper with the gun I wield and DUST does not provide that unless I walk around with a forge or another sniper rifle (which ultimate contributes to the problem)
The hard range cap for a sniper rifle is 599m without any sharpshooting skills, which IS limiting.. it means shooting from point D to point E is not possible on some of the 5 point maps. The optimal range is also 599m which does mean that there is no reduced damage the further a target is.
In regards to knowing where you've been shot from.. I'm ambivalent about changing this. currently there seems to be an inconsistent damage indication from the direction in which the shot came from. I've noticed that sometimes when you get OHKd it does not show up, which should be fixed.. but I feel like adding another method of location would make the profile dampening, profile analysis and general sensor upgrade related skills redundant. |
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DAMIOS82
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 21:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
I personally snipe alott, either that or a logi with mass, sometimes even heavy but there to underpowered atm in my oppinion. anyways cost wise there fine. If i get shot ones with an advanced or proto suit, strapped with a ishukone or kalakiota rifle. then cost wise i would just break even, based on an average of 20 kills. So if i loose 2 or more, what sometimes does happen, from countersniping. that i'm allready loosing isk. if i switch to something lower, then i would be making profit. Most snipers you see only use lower tier weapons, after all why bother if a militia does the same as a proto. But that not only effects sniper rifles, it apply's to all weapons. Atm AR are the go to weapon, since they are very powerfull. to powerfull in my oppinion. but atleast when i get shot by a gek or duvolle, i think ok its an advanced/proto weapon so ok. but a lower AR has nearly the same effect kill wise. Same goes for a normal hmg, it will take you down just as easy as a boundless or six-kin. shotguns the same, etc. So the reall problem is not so much what you get shot with, but more what you get shot with. As long as militia and lower tier weapons have the same fast death effect as advanced or proto gear. then nothing changes. Offcourse one could argue that there is a difference and yes there is, but it's minimal. However as long as that does not change, then no one will want to go for better gear, so that they could actually make an impact. Offcourse then the nerfers will cry that rifle is to powerfull or that one. But then CCP should make sure that either people get put in the right battle based on gear or SP level or that they can choose there difficulty level so to speak, a sort of training ground for newbies. Atleast that way if there is a difference and someone decides to use for instance a militia sniper rifle, it would take many shots before someone goes down, instead of someone using an ishukone and a two shot death. Same goes for AR, HMG, etc.
There is btw a rifle that i personally believe is in the wrong skill level and that is the Charge sniper rifle, allthough it a very slow shooting rifle, the damage it does is comparable with prototype weapons and therefore should only be available to skill level 4 or 5 in sniping, in my oppinion and not level 1 or 2.
So my point beeing People can whine as much as they want about snipers, but they are doing exactly what they are meant to do, which is kill from a distance. just like each and every other class is just as OP in whatever it is that they like to do. And each and every class requires it's own tactics to deall with. If people choose not to addept to that, then they have only them selfs to blame. But like i said above, the main problem lies in the weapons tiers and the damage they apply.
As for rewards they should be based on ones effort for contributing. If i kill 20 with a sniper rifle, i'm contributing just like anybody else, atleast for depleting there clonevat. If i choose to just run objectives and hacking, the same apply's. The more one does the better the rewards should be. But there is no difference between 20 kills with an AR or 20 kills with a Sniper. 20 kills is 20 kills. |
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