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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1871
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 07:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
Karl Koekwaus wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:JETSTORM1090 wrote:Why do people think I am running solo?....but thanks for the help guys,even though I have been doing the majority of the stuff that has been said, I guess av stuff just must not be my thing, infantry vs infantry is my thing, and im good at it, so I guess I will stick with it.. Also I am aware of my corp name, we were against all the odds and we lost lol so be it, just thought i would mention a tank cap per team but I guess people get very defensive very easily over mentioning just ideas... but thanks again for suggestions for AV improvement. The argument we're making is that there's ALREADY a cap, and it's a fair one. With the right approach, and the right gear, even if you can't KILL the tanks (or at least not all of them), you can effectively remove them from the battle and turn things back in your team's favour. Because shooting at a tank for 15 minutes with a forge gun or swarm launcher to make them retreat since you aren't going to kill them is fun gameplay and gives you Warpoints? When it only takes 10 seconds or less of coordinated fire from two players to force even the most heavily-tanked HAV to run, then you get several minutes of hacking and either using your Forge to blow up infantry or switching to your sidearm, then yes it does get you plenty of warpoints, and more importantly, it gets your team control of the area, which is usually an objective, and it gets the enemy team on the defensive, and it gets more WP for your teammates, which brings you closer to that Orbital Strike you can use to finish the job when the tank comes back. |
Karl Koekwaus
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2013.03.07 07:36:00 -
[62] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Karl Koekwaus wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:JETSTORM1090 wrote:Why do people think I am running solo?....but thanks for the help guys,even though I have been doing the majority of the stuff that has been said, I guess av stuff just must not be my thing, infantry vs infantry is my thing, and im good at it, so I guess I will stick with it.. Also I am aware of my corp name, we were against all the odds and we lost lol so be it, just thought i would mention a tank cap per team but I guess people get very defensive very easily over mentioning just ideas... but thanks again for suggestions for AV improvement. The argument we're making is that there's ALREADY a cap, and it's a fair one. With the right approach, and the right gear, even if you can't KILL the tanks (or at least not all of them), you can effectively remove them from the battle and turn things back in your team's favour. Because shooting at a tank for 15 minutes with a forge gun or swarm launcher to make them retreat since you aren't going to kill them is fun gameplay and gives you Warpoints? When it only takes 10 seconds or less of coordinated fire from two players to force even the most heavily-tanked HAV to run, then you get several minutes of hacking and either using your Forge to blow up infantry or switching to your sidearm, then yes it does get you plenty of warpoints, and more importantly, it gets your team control of the area, which is usually an objective, and it gets the enemy team on the defensive, and it gets more WP for your teammates, which brings you closer to that Orbital Strike you can use to finish the job when the tank comes back.
now try again for ambush and someone not in a squad. (like most of the players) |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1871
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 07:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Karl Koekwaus wrote:now try again for ambush and someone not in a squad. (like most of the players) Why should anyone care about their team if it doesn't provide fun gameplay for the player doing it? You mean like when I was in Ambush and we saw the enemy roll up in 3 tanks, and I wasn't in a squad?
And we killed all 3, only one of which was a Militia tank?
I got 3 kills and over 300 WP for myself for blowing up a Madrugar with my Swarm Launcher. Also got several Assists and more WP for the Soma when a Forge Gunner finished it off. I'm having fun. I enjoy being useful to my team, and I enjoy seeing a "Victory" screen more than a "Defeat" one. |
Karl Koekwaus
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2013.03.07 08:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: You mean like when I was in Ambush and we saw the enemy roll up in 3 tanks, and I wasn't in a squad?
And we killed all 3, only one of which was a Militia tank?
I got 3 kills and over 300 WP for myself for blowing up a Madrugar with my Swarm Launcher. Also got several Assists and more WP for the Soma when a Forge Gunner finished it off. I'm having fun. I enjoy being useful to my team, and I enjoy seeing a "Victory" screen more than a "Defeat" one.
Good, so you happened to run into some noob tankers and you had Coordinated Fire on tanks.
I also have a nice story; Once the enemy spawned 3 tanks (non militia) backed up by proper infantry and my team did all they could to kill them, but without communication the only thing that we saw was the low HP tanks driving off into the sunset, repairing somewhere and getting replaced by a full HP tank as they went along. After 5 minutes of accomplishing nothing I hid behind some wall with a spawn beacon out with a nanohive near it and changed the screen to my computer, and I played some EVE. In the end we lost and I got my WP and Iskies, while doing something fun.
I don't care about winning or losing, as long as the game is fun. Tankspam leads to no fun gameplay more than it leads to something interesting. |
Herrick Arcos
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
74
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Posted - 2013.03.07 09:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
TankSpam goes well on eggs and hash... just saying. Also TankSpam can lead to TankSpam which is the best Spam in the game. Nothing screams joy like a field of tanks shooting another field of tanks. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1871
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Posted - 2013.03.07 09:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Karl Koekwaus wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: You mean like when I was in Ambush and we saw the enemy roll up in 3 tanks, and I wasn't in a squad?
And we killed all 3, only one of which was a Militia tank?
I got 3 kills and over 300 WP for myself for blowing up a Madrugar with my Swarm Launcher. Also got several Assists and more WP for the Soma when a Forge Gunner finished it off. I'm having fun. I enjoy being useful to my team, and I enjoy seeing a "Victory" screen more than a "Defeat" one.
Good, so you happened to run into some noob tankers and you had Coordinated Fire on tanks. I also have a nice story; Once the enemy spawned 3 tanks (non militia) backed up by proper infantry and my team did all they could to kill them, but without communication the only thing that we saw was the low HP tanks driving off into the sunset, repairing somewhere and getting replaced by a full HP tank as they went along. After 5 minutes of accomplishing nothing I hid behind some wall with a spawn beacon out with a nanohive near it and changed the screen to my computer, and I played some EVE. In the end we lost and I got my WP and Iskies, while doing something fun. I don't care about winning or losing, as long as the game is fun. Tankspam leads to no fun gameplay more than it leads to something interesting. You should probably put more emphasis on how your example couldn't possibly have worked without the "backed up by proper infantry" part.
My team had 3 good AV guys and we were supported by more effective infantry than the enemy. The non-AV members of our team were mostly focused on suppressing the (outnmbered) enemy infantry who were trying to support the enemy tanks. When infantry fails, the tanks aren't far behind. If the enemy infantry can't suppress our AV guys, their tanks have to spend all their time running instead of fighting. If both teams have 16 people, and you assume only 2 in each tank, that means there are 10 infantry on the enemy team, and after counting our 3 AV guys, that gives us a 30% manpower advantage in the infantry vs. infantry battles.
And they weren't noob tankers. The Madrugar survived 2 coordinated attacks from our AV guys before we finally got rid of him, and I know for a fact that the Soma was being driven by someone whose tanks are some of the few that I normally fear instead of merely respecting.
As for "interesting" situations with TankSpam, I have a tendency to almost always create such situations when there's TankSpam. I find that it livens up the battlefield more than pure infantry battles. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
923
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 10:04:00 -
[67] - Quote
Moving from General Discussions to Feedback/Requests. |
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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
188
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Posted - 2013.03.07 10:14:00 -
[68] - Quote
Public games could have the limit IMHO. They are for getting exp and loot, which you can get afk for all it matters. Isk wise its not prolly efficient to bring tanks except for railgun ones that can pop stuff for more exp and isk.
Id limit it to 3 on field. |
Niccolo deLuce
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.03.07 11:43:00 -
[69] - Quote
First off, I've never played in anything but pub matches, and frankly I don't care about your supposed hero stories of taking out maps full of nothing but enemy tanks. Out of the last 100 pub games I've played in, if a team brought in more than one tank they never lost. I just spent 10 minutes in a Line Harvest skirmish that finished up 0 to 70 clones. Why? Because the reds brought two Suryas in within the first 10 seconds and proceeded to kill everyone without ever taking more than about 15% dmg. I'm glad all of you have level 5 weapon profs and proto forges, I've yet to see anybody in one of the pubs use them. I used my T1 Forge multiple times, but it's pretty disheartening to go through the effort only to watch your Forge do all of about 5% dmg to the shields on a Surya, which is roughly the same as what my packed AV grenades were doing. The map before being Line Harvest was Skim Junction. I killed somebody who called in a tank as he was trying to get into it. I hacked it and hopped in and drove it to the outside of one of the entrances where they were being halfheartedly spawn camped. I sat there never moving more than 2 meters for a solid 8 minutes before they could kill me, and I never repped myself once (couldn't figure out how to on my keyboard, and I was busy overheating the turret constantly). I was almost constantly under attack from swarms and av or flux grenades. The flux grenades luckily don't do anything, and against shield the av grenades did less dmg than was being passively recharged. No new player or even groups of new players are going to be able to do anything to stop an older player that decides to bring a tank into a pub, and honestly they're not prohibitively expensive. It makes me remember the old commercials on tv where the school kids are choosing teams for baseball or basketball and some sports star like Michael Jordan shows up to play, except in Dust nobody cares who you are, and it's an artificial skill gap not an innate or practiced one. At the end of the day I think this is one of those things that will drive away new players. Call it QQ'ing or what, I don't really care. The game is a Beta and the point is that CCP wants feedback. This is just my opinion, and I'll probably keep playing regardless of what they change. I've got a lot of faith in CCP, I've been playing EVE since 2006 and I bite my tongue whenever I see upcoming changes that I'm not happy about because I'm pretty sure it will all work out in the end. This however is a Beta, and we're not supposed to just shut up and play. We're supposed to whine, constructively. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
233
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 12:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
If you lost a skirmish where the other side were all in tanks, you're entire team must've just been hiding scared. At the point when most of the other team are in tanks, you get a scout suit on and run round the several back routes to hack the objectives that they're not covering because they're busy red-lining you. As soon as you take one point, the tanks will split up and you can try to take one or two of them out or you can run around to the other points and hack them too.
5 tanks is too many for one team because it leaves them all stuck in tanks not hacking objectives and that's not bad game mechanics - that bad tactics. |
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Phoenix Arakyd
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
7
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Posted - 2013.03.07 21:21:00 -
[71] - Quote
JETSTORM1090 wrote:Phoenix Arakyd wrote:Fail. proto tanks arnt even available. When I say prototank, I basically mean powerful tank, I know they werent protos, but they were skilled drivers, all of them, we tried taking them out but we could only get 1....
So you want a tool that was used against you to be nerfed. Guess what, something else will be exploited to its fullest potential. Get good with forgeguns or get lost. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
226
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Posted - 2013.03.07 21:35:00 -
[72] - Quote
What a derp derp thread.
Dear CCP
Please limit number to guns allow for field at battle. Merc is kill. No.
#1 game balancer |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
130
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 21:46:00 -
[73] - Quote
It's amazing how many stories people have of the enemy team using a wide array of tactical resources and good teamwork, and then complain that their disorganized team can't beat them. But it's probably just because of the HAVs, because all these guys have such perfect AR game that they would've taken down the team that works together all by themselves.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
173
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Posted - 2013.03.09 01:56:00 -
[74] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:It's amazing how many stories people have of the enemy team using a wide array of tactical resources and good teamwork, and then complain that their disorganized team can't beat them. But it's probably just because of the HAVs, because all these guys have such perfect AR game that they would've taken down the team that works together all by themselves.
I know right? It's almost as bad as when someone whined that they couldn't kill a tank with nothing but their AR. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1229
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 07:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
JETSTORM1090 wrote:Im sorry to make another tank thread but I just got out of a match that had 5 good tanks on a single team...Please just limit the amount of tanks per team, I know some idiots will come inhere and say "Just destroy the tanks with your{insert crappy av weapon here}", well its hard enough to kill 1 or 2 tanks, impossible to kill 5 unless they group together and you hit em with an OB.... I dont mind a few tanks but 5 proto tanks is just not right, please limit this 6 vehicle cap for each team. Once the player count goes up to 48 that'll be expanded to 12 per team, but there is a hard limit. |
Thrillhouse Van Houten
DIOS EX.
18
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Posted - 2013.03.09 08:21:00 -
[76] - Quote
I can see the OPs point. I'm not a tanker and I am regular infantry, so there is my clear bias. There are a few very small ambush maps that 4 tanks rolling around gets to be a little ridiculous. I don't think a hard limit change across all maps is appropriate and there isn't a single skirmish map that needs a limit below 5.
That being said, I have rolled a militia forge launcher and AV nades in multi tank situations. Applying blundering personal skill with the FG, I have still managed to back off a tank completely SOLO. Not destroy, certainly not. It was probably a Gunlogi if I recall correctly but I know nothing of such things. I doubt it was some extra mustard fit, but the point is a relative newcomer to the FG and AV in general was able to keep a tank entirely engaged for the last 2 minutes of a match. I actually found it fun, especially since the cost to me was a mere 8k per death in my militia everything (except AV nades). The driver was no pro, mind you...
For the record, there wasn't a chance in space hell I would have ever killed it on my own, but I was instrumental in the taking down of several low-ball tanks in earlier matches. It can be fun if you aren't utterly consumed with victory OR losing your heavy militia FG suit (which you bloody well shouldn't be). Roll a militia heavy FG...you WILL die but you might make a tanker sweat and THAT is worth much ISK in my little infantry world (just like popping snipers). |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1910
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 11:18:00 -
[77] - Quote
Niccolo deLuce wrote:they're not prohibitively expensive. A well-fitted Surya or Sagaris easily costs over 2 million ISK.
That's TEN well-fitted Proto Heavy suits.
If the enemy team brings ten Proto Heavies, they can just march through 90% of what you throw at them, but every time someone drops, they're going to feel it. If someone brings a single item that costs as much as those TEN Heavies, that's going to hurt anything that gets in the way, but it's also going to hurt the guy who loses it... and it's going to hurt BAD.
A well-fitted (insert anything in the game here) should be reasonably expected to make a profit in skilled hands.
Give that tank to someone BAD at driving a tank, and they're still using OVER TWO MILLIION ISK WORTH OF EQUIPMENT. That can make a difference. Most players who use even Advanced tanks stop using anything worth any ISK at all after losing one. You steal that tank, and you're up against at least one player running Starter Fits with maybe a few Aurum Blueprints... meaning Militia gear. Usually that player will avoid using tanks at all for several matches after that as well, to avoid the same problem happening again. |
Charlotte O'Dell
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 01:52:00 -
[78] - Quote
JETSTORM1090 wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:I dont have tanks and i say if they bought them they are able to use them in the fashion they want , they ARE risking Loosing lots of ISK if they FAce a decent Squad with mic and some AV equipment.
The thing is, Going solo vs a Tank or 5 is never a good idea. I wasnt solo, and that isnt the point, I think there should be a limit to 2 tanks maximum on a single side.
New Eden isn't supposed to be fair, you CoD prick. If you don't like it, get your own damn tanks bc we earned those. They take MILLIONS of skills points and 10's of millions to deploy (5 lvl 3 tanks, im assuming). Deal with it and kill them or stop playing the game. |
Charlotte O'Dell
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 01:57:00 -
[79] - Quote
Niccolo deLuce wrote:First off, I've never played in anything but pub matches, and frankly I don't care about your supposed hero stories of taking out maps full of nothing but enemy tanks. Out of the last 100 pub games I've played in, if a team brought in more than one tank they never lost. I just spent 10 minutes in a Line Harvest ambush that finished up 0 to 70 clones. Why? Because the reds brought two Suryas in within the first 10 seconds and proceeded to kill everyone without ever taking more than about 15% dmg. I'm glad all of you have level 5 weapon profs and proto forges, I've yet to see anybody in one of the pubs use them. I used my T1 Forge multiple times, but it's pretty disheartening to go through the effort only to watch your Forge do all of about 5% dmg to the shields on a Surya, which is roughly the same as what my packed AV grenades were doing.
The map before being wiped on Line Harvest was Skim Junction. I killed somebody who called in a tank as he was trying to get into it. I hacked it and hopped in and drove it to the outside of one of the entrances where they were being halfheartedly spawn camped. I sat there never moving more than 2 meters for a solid 8 minutes before they could kill me, and I never repped myself once (couldn't figure out how to on my keyboard, and I was busy overheating the turret constantly). I was almost constantly under attack from swarms and av or flux grenades. The flux grenades luckily don't do anything, and against shield the av grenades did less dmg than was being passively recharged.
No new player or even groups of new players are going to be able to do anything to stop an older player that decides to bring a tank into a pub, and honestly they're not prohibitively expensive. It makes me remember the old commercials on tv where the school kids are choosing teams for baseball or basketball and some sports star like Michael Jordan shows up to play, except in Dust nobody cares who you are, and it's an artificial skill gap not an innate or practiced one.
At the end of the day I think this is one of those things that will drive away new players. Call it QQ'ing or what, I don't really care. The game is a Beta and the point is that CCP wants feedback. This is just my opinion, and I'll probably keep playing regardless of what they change. I've got a lot of faith in CCP, I've been playing EVE since 2006 and I bite my tongue whenever I see upcoming changes that I'm not happy about because I'm pretty sure it will all work out in the end. This however is a Beta, and we're not supposed to just shut up and play. We're supposed to whine, constructively.
Edit: I take that part about more than one tank back. For the first time my team had two tanks and we lost, because they drove to the edge of the Skim Junction map and sat there all game.
Then stop playing or figure out a way to kill my Sagaris that will one shot anything of lesser value. |
Charlotte O'Dell
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
30
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Posted - 2013.03.11 02:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
Green Living wrote:Solution? Boundless Proximity Mines. those killed my 1,000,000 isk gunlogi in 1 hit... :/ |
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