DUST Search - Limit to tanks please...

Karl Koekwaus wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

You mean like when I was in Ambush and we saw the enemy roll up in 3 tanks, and I wasn't in a squad?

And we killed all 3, only one of which was a Militia tank?

I got 3 kills and over 300 WP for myself for blowing up a Madrugar with my Swarm Launcher. Also got several Assists and more WP for the Soma when a Forge Gunner finished it off. I'm having fun. I enjoy being useful to my team, and I enjoy seeing a "Victory" screen more than a "Defeat" one.

Good, so you happened to run into some noob tankers and you had Coordinated Fire on tanks.

I also have a nice story;
Once the enemy spawned 3 tanks (non militia) backed up by proper infantry and my team did all they could to kill them, but without communication the only thing that we saw was the low HP tanks driving off into the sunset, repairing somewhere and getting replaced by a full HP tank as they went along. After 5 minutes of accomplishing nothing I hid behind some wall with a spawn beacon out with a nanohive near it and changed the screen to my computer, and I played some EVE.
In the end we lost and I got my WP and Iskies, while doing something fun.

I don't care about winning or losing, as long as the game is fun. Tankspam leads to no fun gameplay more than it leads to something interesting.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1868	Posted - 2013.03.07 05:31:00 - [1] - Quote in Skirmish, calling in 5 tanks is legitimate, because the battlefield is large, and 5 tanks means at least 5 people NOT operating as infantry. That means almost a third of the enemy team are guaranteed to be in vehicles, and if all of them have a full crew, then the enemy team ONLY HAS ONE GUY FIGHTING ON FOOT. This means that whoever has the job of killing enemy infantry (Snipers and AR guys, and most Scouts) gets an easier time of it because they outnumber their preferred targets. If you have a competent AV squad (whether an actual squad or not), and they can be encouraged to work together, even high-tier HAVs can be torn apart really fast. In Ambush, calling in a tank is a huge risk, because a smart Forge Gunner will kill the RDV and destroy the vehicle before it even lands, and there's no redline in Ambush. If the tank DOES get onto the field, then the same rules may apply. Even if you can't kill the tank, you can often severely blunt its effectiveness by forcing it into cover. I've been in an Ambush match where my team got dug into a solid position that the enemy was having trouble dealing with, and had a couple of Logi players (and an Assault and a Scout with Repair Tools for a while) keeping people alive and/or getting them back up when they fell. The enemy team called in a Soma, a Madrugar and a Gunnlogi. Three players on our team made suicide charges so we could swap fittings. One Ishukone Forge Gun, one Militia Forge Gun and a Militia Swarm Launcher. At the end of the match, there were no more tanks. EDIT: And in a recent Skirmish, 2 guys with Militia Forge Guns kept a Madrugar and a Soma from coming into the major areas we were fighting over for 90% of the battle, and effectively eliminated those tanks from having any impact on the battle at all.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1868	Posted - 2013.03.07 05:52:00 - [2] - Quote JETSTORM1090 wrote: All tanks rolled in at the same time, so there was no second guessing, Me and others had av setups, damage a tank he would back off for a lil bit, then the other tank would fill in his spot, and rage quitting is just lame, I would rather saty in a might losing then quit in the middle, even though I may not be having fun. Coordinated tank charge? Nice tactic. If you had 3 or 4 guys running AV, and they weren't ALL top-tier tanks, you should have watched for the first enemy tank to start falling back, and preferentially targeted it to try and eliminate it before it got away. If that didn't work, Repeat the process on the others, coordinate with the other AV guys, shoot the same target, make sure the tanks are being hit HARD and FAST. If you're lucky/good, you kill 1 or 2 on their first attempt to rush into the fray. If you're not, you still force them to spend more time retreating than attacking. And if they WERE all top-tier tanks, then killing ONE of them - just one - will set the enemy team back by at least 2 milliion ISK. So yeah, I think they deserved that one.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1868	Posted - 2013.03.07 05:57:00 - [3] - Quote JETSTORM1090 wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Not this crap again. Oh look your militia forgegun does nothing i wonder why? Seriously stop complaining the whole day about tanks. Ever tried to "FOCUS" av fire instead of everybody is shoting their AV weapons randomly? I highly doubt it. All what you need are 2 forgegunners and 2 swarm launchers shoting at the same time to cut down the tank drivers reaction time window. Its not a problem of droping X amount of tanks into a match. The problem is that mainly when 1 good tanker calls his tank the others will follow. This is a chain reaction and you dont even need a squad for this. Tanks are a essential part of the game and if infantry+vehicles work together you wont do much. Back in the closed beta tourny we had dedicated snipers which main role was to kill any AV on the field. And if you get facerolled by 7 tanks on the field you deserve it. Revenge for all the turret and resistance nerfs. Yet another idiot who cannot read, tanks are fine, 5 tanks at the same time are not, how many more times must I say this........read please. He was explaining EXACTLY how to deal with multiple tanks on the field though. If there are 3 tanks and 3 AV guys, you don't say "I'll take the one on the left, you take the one on the right, and the other guy can go for the one in the middle. FOCUS FIRE MEANS FOCUS FIRE. ALL OF YOU AV GUYS aim for one target. Kill it, then aim for the next one. If your teammates aren't doing this, then they're doing it wrong. Work with whichever one seems to be hitting their target hardest, and aim for the same tank. If you're lucky, the other guy will be NOT stupid, and will help out.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1868	Posted - 2013.03.07 06:07:00 - [4] - Quote JETSTORM1090 wrote: Ok I give up, you guys win, Raise the tank cap per team to 10 tanks, I AM GAME Nope. Player count is too low to support 10 fully-crewed tanks. When (if) we reach 32 vs. 32 matches, this sounds like a good plan.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1869	Posted - 2013.03.07 06:43:00 - [5] - Quote JETSTORM1090 wrote: Why do people think I am running solo?....but thanks for the help guys,even though I have been doing the majority of the stuff that has been said, I guess av stuff just must not be my thing, infantry vs infantry is my thing, and im good at it, so I guess I will stick with it.. Also I am aware of my corp name, we were against all the odds and we lost lol so be it, just thought i would mention a tank cap per team but I guess people get very defensive very easily over mentioning just ideas... but thanks again for suggestions for AV improvement. The argument we're making is that there's ALREADY a cap, and it's a fair one. With the right approach, and the right gear, even if you can't KILL the tanks (or at least not all of them), you can effectively remove them from the battle and turn things back in your team's favour.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1871	Posted - 2013.03.07 07:35:00 - [6] - Quote Karl Koekwaus wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: JETSTORM1090 wrote: Why do people think I am running solo?....but thanks for the help guys,even though I have been doing the majority of the stuff that has been said, I guess av stuff just must not be my thing, infantry vs infantry is my thing, and im good at it, so I guess I will stick with it.. Also I am aware of my corp name, we were against all the odds and we lost lol so be it, just thought i would mention a tank cap per team but I guess people get very defensive very easily over mentioning just ideas... but thanks again for suggestions for AV improvement. The argument we're making is that there's ALREADY a cap, and it's a fair one. With the right approach, and the right gear, even if you can't KILL the tanks (or at least not all of them), you can effectively remove them from the battle and turn things back in your team's favour. Because shooting at a tank for 15 minutes with a forge gun or swarm launcher to make them retreat since you aren't going to kill them is fun gameplay and gives you Warpoints? When it only takes 10 seconds or less of coordinated fire from two players to force even the most heavily-tanked HAV to run, then you get several minutes of hacking and either using your Forge to blow up infantry or switching to your sidearm, then yes it does get you plenty of warpoints, and more importantly, it gets your team control of the area, which is usually an objective, and it gets the enemy team on the defensive, and it gets more WP for your teammates, which brings you closer to that Orbital Strike you can use to finish the job when the tank comes back.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1871	Posted - 2013.03.07 07:46:00 - [7] - Quote Karl Koekwaus wrote: now try again for ambush and someone not in a squad. (like most of the players) Why should anyone care about their team if it doesn't provide fun gameplay for the player doing it? You mean like when I was in Ambush and we saw the enemy roll up in 3 tanks, and I wasn't in a squad? And we killed all 3, only one of which was a Militia tank? I got 3 kills and over 300 WP for myself for blowing up a Madrugar with my Swarm Launcher. Also got several Assists and more WP for the Soma when a Forge Gunner finished it off. I'm having fun. I enjoy being useful to my team, and I enjoy seeing a "Victory" screen more than a "Defeat" one.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1871	Posted - 2013.03.07 09:52:00 - [8] - Quote Karl Koekwaus wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: You mean like when I was in Ambush and we saw the enemy roll up in 3 tanks, and I wasn't in a squad? And we killed all 3, only one of which was a Militia tank? I got 3 kills and over 300 WP for myself for blowing up a Madrugar with my Swarm Launcher. Also got several Assists and more WP for the Soma when a Forge Gunner finished it off. I'm having fun. I enjoy being useful to my team, and I enjoy seeing a "Victory" screen more than a "Defeat" one. Good, so you happened to run into some noob tankers and you had Coordinated Fire on tanks. I also have a nice story; Once the enemy spawned 3 tanks (non militia) backed up by proper infantry and my team did all they could to kill them, but without communication the only thing that we saw was the low HP tanks driving off into the sunset, repairing somewhere and getting replaced by a full HP tank as they went along. After 5 minutes of accomplishing nothing I hid behind some wall with a spawn beacon out with a nanohive near it and changed the screen to my computer, and I played some EVE. In the end we lost and I got my WP and Iskies, while doing something fun. I don't care about winning or losing, as long as the game is fun. Tankspam leads to no fun gameplay more than it leads to something interesting. You should probably put more emphasis on how your example couldn't possibly have worked without the "backed up by proper infantry" part. My team had 3 good AV guys and we were supported by more effective infantry than the enemy. The non-AV members of our team were mostly focused on suppressing the (outnmbered) enemy infantry who were trying to support the enemy tanks. When infantry fails, the tanks aren't far behind. If the enemy infantry can't suppress our AV guys, their tanks have to spend all their time running instead of fighting. If both teams have 16 people, and you assume only 2 in each tank, that means there are 10 infantry on the enemy team, and after counting our 3 AV guys, that gives us a 30% manpower advantage in the infantry vs. infantry battles. And they weren't noob tankers. The Madrugar survived 2 coordinated attacks from our AV guys before we finally got rid of him, and I know for a fact that the Soma was being driven by someone whose tanks are some of the few that I normally fear instead of merely respecting. As for "interesting" situations with TankSpam, I have a tendency to almost always create such situations when there's TankSpam. I find that it livens up the battlefield more than pure infantry battles.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1910	Posted - 2013.03.09 11:18:00 - [9] - Quote Niccolo deLuce wrote: they're not prohibitively expensive. A well-fitted Surya or Sagaris easily costs over 2 million ISK. That's TEN well-fitted Proto Heavy suits. If the enemy team brings ten Proto Heavies, they can just march through 90% of what you throw at them, but every time someone drops, they're going to feel it. If someone brings a single item that costs as much as those TEN Heavies, that's going to hurt anything that gets in the way, but it's also going to hurt the guy who loses it... and it's going to hurt BAD. A well-fitted (insert anything in the game here) should be reasonably expected to make a profit in skilled hands. Give that tank to someone BAD at driving a tank, and they're still using OVER TWO MILLIION ISK WORTH OF EQUIPMENT. That can make a difference. Most players who use even Advanced tanks stop using anything worth any ISK at all after losing one. You steal that tank, and you're up against at least one player running Starter Fits with maybe a few Aurum Blueprints... meaning Militia gear. Usually that player will avoid using tanks at all for several matches after that as well, to avoid the same problem happening again.