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Grezkev
The Red Guards
103
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Posted - 2013.03.02 00:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I use a MD primarily and there is something that has bothered me heavily for the past few weeks.....and that is the failure of CCP to code properly a slash matrix where the damage is proportional to height as well as distance. Here's what I mean:
Basically the MD works on a horizontal damage frame, if you hit the player it's a clear hit, if you hit near the player on the ground it's splash damage. BUT....if the player happens to be at an elevation higher or lower than the hit point, there is literally zero damage done. Half Life 1 had this issue, where if you threw a grenade at an NPC...but the NPC happened to be on a stairway, or on some sort of canister that raised their "feet" to a different level....the grenade (explosive) did literally no damage. It's pretty much the exact same way in Dust 514.
Now don't get me wrong, I love the MD....and those who played against me in MAG remember how much I loved the noob tube. But even MAG, for all its coding failures, still was able to properly code a noob tube into gameplay. If I fire a shot at someone, and it lands near them...it should do an upward damage of AT LEAST 1 character height, and downward of AT LEAST 1 half a character's height.
Basically a shell should do damage downward, sideways, and upward...not just sideways horizontal to the specific horizontal coordinate that the shell landed on. In other words, the damage should be a reflective arc.
Am I wrong? Or does anyone else see the logic in this? |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
439
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Posted - 2013.03.02 00:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
I see the logic and it is really annoying watching people jump over the explosions so +1 |
Veritas Vitae
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
34
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Posted - 2013.03.02 00:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Is this why fighting on uneven ground randomly has my MD dealing no damage to someone I just planted a shot inches from their feet? It is damn annoying to be sure. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
305
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Posted - 2013.03.02 00:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sometims it does sometimes it doesnt...
I think their smay be some map texture issues more than height. |
Grezkev
The Red Guards
103
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Posted - 2013.03.02 00:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Veritas Vitae wrote:Is this why fighting on uneven ground randomly has my MD dealing no damage to someone I just planted a shot inches from their feet? It is damn annoying to be sure.
Yup, this is 100% *exactly* why.
I remember back in 1999 people flooded Steam with thousands of complaints about the damage arc of granade blasts. It was changed in the "Game of the Year" edition of the game (Half Life 1) |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
644
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Posted - 2013.03.02 00:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
I've brought this up a few times. It's not the mass driver, it's all explosions.
Explosions act like cylinders, not spheres, projecting out of the plane the radius creates, rather than projecting outward in all directions from the focal point. If the horizontal plane is impaired, the explosion doesn't extend beyond that point, even if there's a clear direct line from the center of the explosion to that (usually elevated) position. |
Grezkev
The Red Guards
104
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Posted - 2013.03.02 01:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:I've brought this up a few times. It's not the mass driver, it's all explosions.
Explosions act like cylinders, not spheres, projecting out of the plane the radius creates, rather than projecting outward in all directions from the focal point. If the horizontal plane is impaired, the explosion doesn't extend beyond that point, even if there's a clear direct line from the center of the explosion to that (usually elevated) position.
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one then. If it's all explosions, the MD is expressive of it the most, carrying the most splash damage modifier. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
461
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Posted - 2013.03.02 01:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah I've noticed a little of that too. There are these stairs in Skim Junction leading up to A and some on B as well that have always given reduced damage of my mass driver. |
Knight SoIaire
Better Hide R Die
46
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Posted - 2013.03.02 01:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
I noticed this, awfully annoying, means I have to try hit someone above me directly to do damage.
+1 |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
983
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Posted - 2013.03.02 01:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
So that would be why the dancing shotgun fairies can skip merrily over my MD rounds. |
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Grezkev
The Red Guards
106
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Posted - 2013.03.02 02:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Knight SoIaire wrote:I noticed this, awfully annoying, means I have to try hit someone above me directly to do damage.
+1
Exactly...drives me fuggin insane. |
Chances Ghost
Prototype Technology Corp.
13
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Posted - 2013.03.02 02:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dear CCP please code AOE damage as a sphere instead of a 2D surface map
One thing i cant help but wonder is weather the flux granades suffer the same problem or weather they are coded spherical like everything should be
Does anyone have any insight into the coding of flux granades? |
Grezkev
The Red Guards
107
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Posted - 2013.03.02 02:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:Dear CCP please code AOE damage as a sphere instead of a 2D surface map
One thing i cant help but wonder is weather the flux granades suffer the same problem or weather they are coded spherical like everything should be
Does anyone have any insight into the coding of flux granades?
According to Seraphim's representative, it is all explosives.
|
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
288
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Posted - 2013.03.02 02:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wierd. Ive used the mass driver and Ive noticed this issue.
Im not a programmer but how hard can it be to code a area of effect sphere?
Point of impact generate a sphere, everyone inside takes the splash damage.
I don't undertsand why this is so hard. Maybe because of complications as a result of it being multiplayer or something.
Or maybe it is a sphere and somethings broken. Ah who knows.
/beta. |
Chances Ghost
Prototype Technology Corp.
14
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Posted - 2013.03.02 02:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Grezkev wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Dear CCP please code AOE damage as a sphere instead of a 2D surface map
One thing i cant help but wonder is weather the flux granades suffer the same problem or weather they are coded spherical like everything should be
Does anyone have any insight into the coding of flux granades? According to Seraphim's representative, it is all explosives.
Its wierd because the flux granade projects a spherical graphic when it goes off.
It shouldnt be too hard to program.
step one create 3D sphere upon explosion that does not interfear with player movement
step two detect player presence within said sphere
setp three ????
step four proft? |
Grezkev
The Red Guards
108
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Posted - 2013.03.02 02:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Honestly all CCP would have to do is get the source from Steam. Or they can just do some test and failure to see what works. But from what I can tell, the current damage sphere is completely inaccurate. |
IR Scifi
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.03.02 04:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Man I'd really hoped they'd fixed this. I love the MD but it's damn near useless because of faulty explosion logic. |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
460
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Posted - 2013.03.02 05:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
This has been a problem since the closed beta.
It happened when missiles were OP, too. The explosion would go off inches from someone's feet, but instead of one-shotting the hapless blueberry, nothing would happen.
I actually posted a thread about this way back when. |
Jack Of Evermore
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
3
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Posted - 2013.03.02 05:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
I always wondered when using the MD why they kept trying to hop over the round, I don't think I ever questioned if I was hitting them. I thought they where just trying to throw off my aim.
Maybe they will come up with some way to fix them sooner.
Till then catch them flat footed and aim for the walls boys. |
AnerexiaAnna
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.03.02 05:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
ya, but u MD users also kill everything in ur path..no matter the distance... |
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Ganton Kable
Reaper Galactic
2
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Posted - 2013.03.02 05:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mass drivers are cool weapons but they have a ridiculous AOE range. They have twice the blast range of a frag missile and can waste squads easily in cqb without hurting your own team. I think these issues need to be looked at as well. |
Sontie
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
117
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Posted - 2013.03.02 11:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
To OP, yea, this kinda sucks. makes attacking up and sometimes down stairs a pain in the booty. Or if they are running up stairs and your perpendicular to them tracking their assent . |
Tiluvo
Digital Mercs
17
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Posted - 2013.03.02 11:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ganton Kable wrote:Mass drivers are cool weapons but they have a ridiculous AOE range. They have twice the blast range of a frag missile and can waste squads easily in cqb without hurting your own team. I think these issues need to be looked at as well.
Once friendly fire goes live no more mass driving into CQC, not unless you want your team to hate you. And that blast radius is a two-edged sword. I killed myself plenty of times when I first switched from the SMG to MD. D**n you, muscle memory! |
Sobriety Denied
Universal Allies Inc.
461
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Posted - 2013.03.02 13:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
as mainly MD user i'm going to have to disagree. this "bug" is the MDs only weakness, and needs to remain, hell they already want to nerf us, i dont think we need a buff. just accept it as the MDs weakness when someone elevates to you. also saying that when they jump over our blasts they recieve no damage, that is not true, i've helped them jump further and higher (ragdoll) on many occasions. the MDs fine, leave it alone. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
984
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Posted - 2013.03.02 15:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
It's not fine. The AR users and snipers get to complain about hit detection, so why not us?
You are kidding yourself if you think they won't continue to call for MD nerfs until it is a direct hit weapon.
Typical AR CoD scrub:
"The MD would be fine if it only had a 6" splash radius, a clip size of one round, a total capacity of two, took half a minute to reload, and depleted a nano hive when replenishing those two rounds." |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
273
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Posted - 2013.03.02 16:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ill test flux nades but im pretty sure its effect is spherical.
If you throw a flux in the air after cooking it you can the flux is a giant sphere.
The best way to test is to hover a dropship and have an enemy throw a flux into the air just enough to get the top of the sphere to hit and see if damage in the vertical.
If it doesnt then yes explosion needs fixing. Its not just MD, flux, av, locus all these things should work as intended, not say well it will effect the balance so we should leave it alone even though it functions in a nonsensical manner. |
Pro'fane
The Generals
0
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Posted - 2013.03.09 10:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Skihids wrote:It's not fine. The AR users and snipers get to complain about hit detection, so why not us?
You are kidding yourself if you think they won't continue to call for MD nerfs until it is a direct hit weapon.
I don't really care about the damage. It's a grenade, ain't it? My issue with the MD is the fact that users can point-blank you without taking a single tiny hit to their shield. Yet if I throw a grenade and I'm too close when it goes off, I not only lose my shield, I usually just die. I've never seen a grenade launcher in a game that didn't inflict damage on the wielder if they used it stupidly. |
Quill Killian
Better Hide R Die
116
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Posted - 2013.03.09 11:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pro'fane wrote:Skihids wrote:It's not fine. The AR users and snipers get to complain about hit detection, so why not us?
You are kidding yourself if you think they won't continue to call for MD nerfs until it is a direct hit weapon.
I don't really care about the damage. It's a grenade, ain't it? My issue with the MD is the fact that users can point-blank you without taking a single tiny hit to their shield. Yet if I throw a grenade and I'm too close when it goes off, I not only lose my shield, I usually just die. I've never seen a grenade launcher in a game that didn't inflict damage on the wielder if they used it stupidly.
Good God. You're not very observant then, are you? I've lost track of the times I've been firing away at a red dot rushing me with my MD, and I've suffered damage from my own weapon if it detonated too close and caught me its splash damage radius.
I've also been known to attempt to take leaping shots over obstacles, only to have the shell bounce off said obstacle and blow up in my face, killing me instantly. "Quill Killian committed suicide" has been seen on more than one ambush and skirmish match, that's for darn sure. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
236
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Posted - 2013.03.09 11:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
This affects many things even beyond explosions in this game. Fluxes suffer too as I have many times thrown fluxes on the ground right next to a tank but done zero damage because of a tiny dip in the terrain.
This may also be the reason you can't detect nanohives and uplinks that are hidden behind tiny bumps in the ground. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
236
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Posted - 2013.03.09 11:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sobriety Denied wrote:as mainly MD user i'm going to have to disagree. this "bug" is the MDs only weakness, and needs to remain, hell they already want to nerf us, i dont think we need a buff. just accept it as the MDs weakness when someone elevates to you. also saying that when they jump over our blasts they recieve no damage, that is not true, i've helped them jump further and higher (ragdoll) on many occasions. the MDs fine, leave it alone.
Keeping something broken for balance purposes is counter intuitive - you fix things that are broken and then re-balance it based on the fixed version.
Also, something does seem to have changed with self-damage since I used MDs back in the codex build. I am told by current users that you do get self-damage but I can't count the number of times I've been MDd at point blank range and the firer has taken no damage at all. Especially in the indoor areas using a MD should be basically insta-suicide. |
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