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digi mech
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.03.01 13:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've played this for a while now. I've given it a good go. But IGÇÖve got to drop it and try it again in a few months because right now its so frustrating. Small things, but they all add up to make the game play experience tedious. So here's my feedback for now. Ill try again in a couple of months and hope some of it has changed for the better.
It feels like a game developed for PC gamers not console gamers.
for example. Comms.
comms are an integral part of working as a team, they should be always on, unless you opt out, not the other way around. And non of that crazy push to talk nonsense.
Guns.
you know as a console gamer, I just want to pick my class, pick a gun and jump in. I am happy to earn the guns, unlock them with my skills, unlock different sights and addons with skill points.. but currently, its like you have added numerous extra layers of complication just for the sake of it.. much of it is unnecessary and just complicates things.. but more than that it puts people off. you want people to play this long term, then you need people to stay. people need to feel part of it immediately. Right now half my friends who have tried it have given up on it, because its just too complicated to get started.. can you afford to lose4 of 5 players?
same as above with suits and vehicles, all of it. too many layers of complication and a lack of immediacy.
Im going to make a comparison with Killzone3. That's a game I still play every week even though its 2 years old. unlock classes gradually, unlock guns gradually.. but its simple to do, nothing complicated about it. you earn experience you spend experience.. and the weapons are obviously different, I mean they behave very differently.. I look at some of your apparently different assault rifles and wonder where the difference is..? most of the stats are so similar. and its impossible to tell in store if there is a sight on the gun? we are stuck with what ever sight it comes with, and we have no way to know before hand what that sight will be!
Battlefield 3. Ive logged over 400 hours on this on the ps3. Ive unlocked everything, on pretty much everything. and its simple. the game is complex and indepth, but its simple to get into. you gain experience, you unlock stuff, you use it and through using it you become more skilled and unlock other aspects of it. so if I want that gun I have to unlock it, and if I want a particular sight or extended barrel, I have to get a number of kills with that weapon in order to unlock those parts, for that gun.. its long term, extended, indepth, highly detailed.. but its just so simple to get into.
skill points are ok, but the way they are spent is just so laborious, and frankly makes little sense. I mean why is it that you have multipliers? why would some skills cost say 12000 x2? why not just call it 24000? it makes no sense to me.
much of what I see in the market place, looks like it was put in to block people from doing things they want to do, its so counter intuitive. examples:
skills. I look at my character skills and there are some there I am sure I have spent on. I go to the market place and sure enough, I spent many isk on skills. Particularly light weapon ones.. but none of them show in my skills list as having had anything spent on them.. so how does that work? Have I wasted my money on redundant items? I dont know, I cant work it out. But what it feels like is duplication.
I donGÇÖt want to buy this twice in two different places. I want one place, one cost.. isk or skill points or both combined.. but please for the love of gaming, in one place, one location, one transaction! Its so frustrating to have things duplicated needlessly.
It feels like someone has come in and said, GÇ£Right we need this to take a long time to do, we want people to take years to unlock everythingGÇ¥ and instead of just giving us lots of things to unlock in interesting ways, you just made its so hard to work out the menus that its going to take the average gamer years to work it out.. but they wont, they will give up, you will push them away.
Game play
so this is improving gradually, but its a far cry from AAA at the moment. Its lacks the graphical depth of games like KZ3, it lacks the atmosphere and intensity. Given the number of players involved, more than 3 main objectives are unnecessary. If you just have 3 it concentrates forces, 5 just spreads them out and disperses them, it makes for a dull game.
Partly this lack of intensity is because many of the maps are just too big, enormous. It takes so long to get across on foot. And it's too open, so you can spend 3-4 minutes running across the battle to get to an objective only to be snipped.
But if you shrink the maps how do you employ vehicles? Its an issue. On games like battlefield3 its not an issue because you dont have to buy your vehicles. So people use them. But in dust if no one buys a vehicle your left with empty maps that take ages to run across, and lets face it, few people bother to buy vehicles. Its just too complicated to buy and outfit vehicles, and so costly that the possibility of getting any kind of return is unlikely. they are used in small games like ambush, where they are used to provide certain victory. Its insane to allow them into what should be an infantry only environment. If its not infantry only the maps should be the same size as other game types. if there is a free vehicle or transport I havnt found it. Perhaps its hidden in another ream of dull menus and layers of unnecessary dross.
Rain, snow, fog, dust.. there is a distinct lack of all these, so it all feels very sterile.
Clearly I find this game a frustrating overcomplicated mess. But it has potential, and I want it to succeed. If I didnt I wouldnt take the time to write this tome.
Overall.. too complicated, too sterile, lacks immediacy.
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Qubot Sendai
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.03.01 14:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
potential it has.. but sadly, 'potential' is a fallacy of sorts. whether it will get better is pretty subjective at the moment.
there will be the ones that will come about raising fists against your candidness, mostly the same ones that are experts at roaming the forums for this sort of comments to tell you how wrong you are. but, am one of those who prefer objectivity and therefore here i am agreeing with this..
it seems to me there are lots of forum sharks who think this game was made for just a handful of 'elite' guys 'who know how to play' too. good luck with that then. surely won't help CCP make a dime, but you will be 40-0 all day .. by yourself. |
semperfi1999
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
318
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Posted - 2013.03.01 14:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
FYI you can turn off push to talk and yes we have mentioned issue with comms being off by default but the PTT can be corrected by turning it off.
Also you cant compare this game to KZ3....actually in comparison KZ3 was aweful. The gameplay was completely unbalanced for the longest time (may still be I dont know I left because of their class imbalances that broke the game).
You dont purchase skills you purchase skill books then you have to use SP to learn those books. I highly suggest that you do not try to purcahse skill books in the market area just purchase them straight from the SP training area. |
digi mech
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.03.01 15:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:
Also you cant compare this game to KZ3....actually in comparison KZ3 was aweful. The gameplay was completely unbalanced for the longest time (may still be I dont know I left because of their class imbalances that broke the game).
You dont purchase skills you purchase skill books then you have to use SP to learn those books. I highly suggest that you do not try to purcahse skill books in the market area just purchase them straight from the SP training area.
CCP gave you a free vehicle.....yes its easy to destroy but its still free if you want more survivability you have to pay ISK for it.
I can and did make the comparisson. simply because its a superb game that is very successful, which 2 years after release still has full servers and still delivers excellant game play. its not ont the same scale for sure, but I hoped that Dust would deliver the kind of intense game play KZ3 does.
look you dont have to agree with me, thats fine, it dosent make my observations any less valid.
as to the skill books.. that is exactly my point.. its too convoluted. you dont need skill books that can be bought in the store.. you just need one location where the skills can be developed, no overlap, no confusing duplication. Why have the books in the store when skills are developed elsewhere?, its unnecessary clutter, why not just sell them in the same area you develop the skills?
and again. the free vehicle. great, Im delighted, because its sorely needed, but where is it, how does one deploy it. if its not obvious then its too well hidden. if there is a free vehicle to use why is it not simple to find and deploy? I suspect like many things in this game its hidden under layers of menus that arnt needed.
I know its a beta, and Ive tried to be constructive, I havnt said I hate it, Ive just said that its overly complicated in too many ways, and it would be better if it were simpler. |
RoundEy3
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.03.01 15:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
digi mech wrote:
I can and did make the comparisson. simply because its a superb game that is very successful, which 2 years after release still has full servers and still delivers excellant game play. its not ont the same scale for sure, but I hoped that Dust would deliver the kind of intense game play KZ3 does.
look you dont have to agree with me, thats fine, it dosent make my observations any less valid.
as to the skill books.. that is exactly my point.. its too convoluted. you dont need skill books that can be bought in the store.. you just need one location where the skills can be developed, no overlap, no confusing duplication. Why have the books in the store when skills are developed elsewhere?, its unnecessary clutter, why not just sell them in the same area you develop the skills?
and again. the free vehicle. great, Im delighted, because its sorely needed, but where is it, how does one deploy it. if its not obvious then its too well hidden. if there is a free vehicle to use why is it not simple to find and deploy? I suspect like many things in this game its hidden under layers of menus that arnt needed.
I know its a beta, and Ive tried to be constructive, I havnt said I hate it, Ive just said that its overly complicated in too many ways, and it would be better if it were simpler.
I can agree with your critiques, and that KZ3 is a superb game. I play it, Dust, RTS games, EVE, and it is a great game amongst games.
In light of the interfaces and info. I'd say you're right. This is coming from someone who has taken the time to learn the T2 invention, PI, and T3 reverse engineering processes in Eve. None of that is fun interfacing (rewarding to do though).
That is where a generalized flaw maybe though. Just because I have learned how to trudge through all of the clicks and menus, does it make it the best way it could be? No, of course not. It can be easy for Eve people and others who have learned the system to pass little thought onto it and just say it's perfectly ok.
I myself am double edged about it. I believe if you want to play the game but aren't ambitious enough to read and learn a few things then that's your problem. However I don't believe the way menus and relative information is presented is done in an intuitive way.
They want this game to be similar to Eve, understood, but they should take this game as a chance to start with Eve references and similarities, without it's flaws. In short, don't make the same mistake twice.
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semperfi1999
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
320
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Posted - 2013.03.01 18:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
digi mech wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:
Also you cant compare this game to KZ3....actually in comparison KZ3 was aweful. The gameplay was completely unbalanced for the longest time (may still be I dont know I left because of their class imbalances that broke the game).
You dont purchase skills you purchase skill books then you have to use SP to learn those books. I highly suggest that you do not try to purcahse skill books in the market area just purchase them straight from the SP training area.
CCP gave you a free vehicle.....yes its easy to destroy but its still free if you want more survivability you have to pay ISK for it.
I can and did make the comparisson. simply because its a superb game that is very successful, which 2 years after release still has full servers and still delivers excellant game play. its not ont the same scale for sure, but I hoped that Dust would deliver the kind of intense game play KZ3 does. look you dont have to agree with me, thats fine, it dosent make my observations any less valid. as to the skill books.. that is exactly my point.. its too convoluted. you dont need skill books that can be bought in the store.. you just need one location where the skills can be developed, no overlap, no confusing duplication. Why have the books in the store when skills are developed elsewhere?, its unnecessary clutter, why not just sell them in the same area you develop the skills? and again. the free vehicle. great, Im delighted, because its sorely needed, but where is it, how does one deploy it. if its not obvious then its too well hidden. if there is a free vehicle to use why is it not simple to find and deploy? I suspect like many things in this game its hidden under layers of menus that arnt needed. I know its a beta, and Ive tried to be constructive, I havnt said I hate it, Ive just said that its overly complicated in too many ways, and it would be better if it were simpler.
Its done the same way you call in any vehicle for the game. Right Dpad and then select your options...you have a free vehicle fitting there. Use it...or dont its your choice but its a weak fitting so dont expect to be able to take much dmg. Its actually pretty obvious if you go through the selections on your Dpad.
The skill points and suit customizations are the complicated parts and if you arent willing to do alot of reading or go through their tutorials then you should ask someone to go through it with you. I spent the first week of playing Dust going through the entire market and the whole SP system while I was waiting for the next game to queue up. The reason you can purcahse skill books from the market is because they were always purchased from the market....they just have it set up so that you can quickly purchase them from the skill point distribution area (just like in fittings how you can go into market from fittings and purchase additional or new items directly from fittings).
I dont have a problem with you liking KZ3 but pretending that it was balanced (at least for the first several months) shows that either A) you didnt play it during that time or B) you have a nostalgic view of the game because the first several months it was so horribly unbalanced that they were having troubles keeping player numbers up as alot of people were leaving in huge waves. I am assuming that if its still going strong then they fixed this issue eventually (or the fact that they made it free to play online for the first several lvls). |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
135
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Posted - 2013.03.01 18:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
actually PTT is the only reason most of these folks don't hear me cursing them out.
it's a godsend.
Peace
B |
CYRAX SERVIUS
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
27
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Posted - 2013.03.02 00:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
played KZ3 for awhile at first, it was horrible! skill books in the market make sense cause if you go to purchase a weapon or such and check prerequisites and find you need to buy a skill or upgrade, your'e already there, i find it convienient. this game is very deep and has multiple mech's behind it, i am personally glad it's set up that way, i enjoy the challenge and love the rpg style of having to figure out how to get to the next level to be competitive. i'm not the best player by far but understand the skill tree and how to use it. look me up in game, send me an e mail i'll help you out if you want. |
digi mech
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
cyrax,, thanks, Ill try to find you.
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