DUST Search - Thanks for the P2W proto suits.

Gunner Nightingale wrote:

Okay so its takes ~2.0M SP to get from level 3 suit to proto suit but instead now i can get to level 3 and for 160 AUR use proto dropsuit.

That is a HUGE time advantage for players. So thanks for that. Granted i was two weeks away anyway but this is going to be hilarious now. Prepare for LOGI GAWD to run around in his P2W suit.

Seriously this suit should not be available until level 4 as an AUR purchase. Level 3 is way too soon.

Or the AUR cost should be greater.

I mean ive made a comment about AUR items and their need to be balanced properly. Yes CCP needs to make money from these items. Personally im not against AUR proto suit it should either be at level 4 which is still a nice 1.2 M SP before unlocking proto suits.

Or they need to raise the cost to around 250 AUR or maybe or so, If not greater. The reason why is players who buy AUR gear especially proto gear are even more cautious and less likely to lose them by making sure they camp, get revived or whatever else they have to do to make sure the suit doesnt get consumed. So repeat purchase are less likey so CCP should consider trying to get as much money on them on initial purchase. It also serves as a financial check as players like me are less likely to call them on pubs and reserve them for CB, but again this doesnt affect me that much since im at level 4 suit and 2 weeks from getting ISK proto suits anyway.

Keep in mind many closed tester had access to merc packs that were on sale for $10 buck and each give 40,000 AUR.

I mean it isnt an enormous amount of money here that is being thrown around, but CCP has to realize that not everyone is in a position to buy AUR and its one thing for weapons, but we can all unequivocally agree that the dropsuit is the foundation of a players fitting that it has to be something people cant gain an advantage with through RL money.

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dullrust Beta Hell 4	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:36:00 - [31] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: dullrust wrote: It's fine with me IF they bring back the ability to shoot a downed enemy to finish them off. I thought you could. Will need to double check but im pretty sure you can. Don't seem to work anymore. I do it all the time and someone revives them.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:41:00 - [32] - Quote trololol to nightingale for his saying its p2w then changing back to a p4a (pay for advantage) first off let me state that i am not trolling your views quite the contrary i feel that there is some validity to your statement and position on the issue. however you said it yourself that it is still a p4a setup, as much as gear gives an advantage thats exactly the way it should be if two guys of equal skill go up versus eachother then the one putting more isk sp and time into his toon should 9.9/10 get the kill. this game is still primarily gun game/gear game i use a type 1 raven suit with a gek and a few undisclosed mods (need to keep some suprises ) and i was able to succesfully beat an opposing player a minimum of 3 times during the course of a match when he was in a VK.0 suit and wielding a 'kill-switch'. proto doesnt mean squat if you dont have the skills to back up your suits (not theones bought with sp ya trolls ) raising the req for buying a proto aur suit to level four or raising the cost per suit could definitley be valid solutions but look at it this way, whats it going to matter if people are buying tech 1 proto suits when were all running around in tech 2 std,adv or proto wielding our fancy toys in the arena while the new guys will be proud of getting proto and then realize that theyve just cracked the tip of the ice berg.
Israckcatarac Opus Arcana Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:41:00 - [33] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Okay so its takes ~2.0M SP to get from level 3 suit to proto suit but instead now i can get to level 3 and for 160 AUR use proto dropsuit. That is a HUGE time advantage for players. So thanks for that. Granted i was two weeks away anyway but this is going to be hilarious now. Prepare for LOGI GAWD to run around in his P2W suit. Seriously this suit should not be available until level 4 as an AUR purchase. Level 3 is way too soon. Or the AUR cost should be greater. I mean ive made a comment about AUR items and their need to be balanced properly. Yes CCP needs to make money from these items. Personally im not against AUR proto suit it should either be at level 4 which is still a nice 1.2 M SP before unlocking proto suits. Or they need to raise the cost to around 250 AUR or maybe or so, If not greater. The reason why is players who buy AUR gear especially proto gear are even more cautious and less likely to lose them by making sure they camp, get revived or whatever else they have to do to make sure the suit doesnt get consumed. So repeat purchase are less likey so CCP should consider trying to get as much money on them on initial purchase. It also serves as a financial check as players like me are less likely to call them on pubs and reserve them for CB, but again this doesnt affect me that much since im at level 4 suit and 2 weeks from getting ISK proto suits anyway. Keep in mind many closed tester had access to merc packs that were on sale for $10 buck and each give 40,000 AUR. I mean it isnt an enormous amount of money here that is being thrown around, but CCP has to realize that not everyone is in a position to buy AUR and its one thing for weapons, but we can all unequivocally agree that the dropsuit is the foundation of a players fitting that it has to be something people cant gain an advantage with through RL money. Notice that it is set up across the board this way weapons, mods, dropsuits. At level 2 we use level 2 till we reach level 3 at level 4 we use level 3 till level 5. The weapons, Mods, and Drop suits suck at level 2 and 4 so they offer an AUR upgrade to maximize proffit. Same with the level 3 offering it's about maximizing proffit there will be way more people running in level 3 suits then level 4 or even level 5 ever. And they do realize that not everyone has the money to be throwing around that is why they offer it at level 3.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 96	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:42:00 - [34] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: More like a giant bull's eye Can't wait to T-bag my first proto suit user Indeed. Asia Game Show proved the suit does not make the merc. Every time you mow down someone in an AUR suit, just think of it as doing fundraising for CCP! IMO: This is no different at all from the Broadside HMG or Killswitch GEK. It's just another way to waste AUR that you should have spent on passive boosters.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1907	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:45:00 - [35] - Quote Awww....apparently I'm not allowed to facepalm It's getting hard to be a fanboy, so far DUST is reminding me of "Greed is Good"
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 226	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:46:00 - [36] - Quote [quote=theschizogenious]trololol to nightingale for his saying its p2w then changing back to a p4a (pay for advantage) first off let me state that i am not trolling your views quite the contrary i feel that there is some validity to your statement and position on the issue. however you said it yourself that it is still a p4a setup, as much as gear gives an advantage thats exactly the way it should be if two guys of equal skill go up versus eachother then the one putting more isk sp and time into his toon should 9.9/10 get the kill. this game is still primarily gun game/gear game i use a type 1 raven suit with a gek and a few undisclosed mods (need to keep some suprises ) and i was able to succesfully beat an opposing player a minimum of 3 times during the course of a match when he was in a VK.0 suit and wielding a 'kill-switch'. proto doesnt mean squat if you dont have the skills to back up your suits (not theones bought with sp ya trolls ) raising the req for buying a proto aur suit to level four or raising the cost per suit could definitley be valid solutions but look at it this way, whats it going to matter if people are buying tech 1 proto suits when were all running around in tech 2 std,adv or proto wielding our fancy toys in the arena while the new guys will be proud of getting proto and then realize that theyve just cracked the tip of the ice berg.[/quote] but thats how it works in a market economy, right now Proto is the high end luxury item it should cost more or be more difficult to obtain, as tech 2 and higher gear comes out the old standard of high end drops in price and moves closer to basic stuff since it is no longer the higher tier and the in demand item it once was. Why does the market have to be a set fixed thing and not a fluid economy that changes dynamically based on where the majority of player gear resides. I could explain this point better and i will if it doesnt come across clearly what i mean by this.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:54:00 - [37] - Quote were in locked market right now as im sure you know already. when (SOONtm) we get to the point where we see the next major update that is when the market will be opened up for us loyal mercs to blow all our isk on whatever catches our fancy. the laws of supply and demand will become very obvious to those who dont understand it when the people who wanted to sit in low level gear and save some isk relize that they will end up paying 150% more for their fittings because every other tom&nancy decided to do the same thing while those in the higher suits will either see a decrease in prices for their suits or watch them steadly increase in price as more of the penny pinchers surge for the stronger cheaper suits. tldr the market will soon become a cesspool of inflation & deflation so get your accounting caps on
James Thraxton The Exemplars 75	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:55:00 - [38] - Quote aur proto suits mean a bunch of people running them without the skills to, so easier kills on them, BUT negate a large amount of skills vs them, ie the sp i just spent going from smg 3 to 5 is now wasted, as all the AUR runners (and there is alot, as in all the good players already) just made my proto smg equivalent to a standard model btw, casual gamers are far less inclined to pay than hardcore. and the gap widens
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 226	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:56:00 - [39] - Quote Also to requote myself this is my primary concern i can care less about the impact on pubs. Gunner Nightingale wrote: Look i dont care either way, this isnt an issue that really effects me since ill be at this point in terms of my options with ISK in 2 weeks. But it is a significant leapfrog in terms of SP. Maybe it isn't P2W per se, and still really just Pay to get ahead, but this is a HUGE pay to get ahead, Consder it take 3-4weeks to get from level 3 to level 5 dropsuit WITH ACTIVE AND PASSIVE BOOSTER(ALSO AUR ITEMS) so for the AUR-FREE purist its more like 4.5-6 weeks to get there. Yea how about CB, not a bit P2W there. What if all the FW stuff is implemented now all the rich boys can flip REAL EVE PLANETS usuing REAL MONEY. Is that fair. This isn't something that impacts our game but can potentially impact EVE side as well. It just takes too long for me to draw out the roadmap. At the end of the day a tank > proto logi anyday so its not like there arent plenty of counters to it. And yes its pay to get ahead but this is a far larger time advantage than most other AUR items in the game. Now if when they come out with Tech 2 gear and other stuff that is even higher end than proto suits it wont matter as much, moreover it wont matter because so many will have proto by then.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 887	Posted - 2013.02.26 23:00:00 - [40] - Quote Its pay to win 160 aur of new advanced suits saves you about 60,000 isk, 160 for a single proto suit saves you 300,000 , and that player gains an isk advantage on top of the suit advantage. Ayr should never generate isk free high level suits, or weapons. What happen to cash fir sidegrades ?

Jariel Manton SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 210	Posted - 2013.02.26 23:01:00 - [41] - Quote https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSd18iCLePHKT2KKlRrzhhXGyx4JfHjr4YvMckmF8xPBQMyXFmt Whoooooo cares?? You can get to level 5 with like 2 weeks of saving SP. In a month or two EVERYONE will have a proto suit whether it was bought with AUR or ISK is irrelevant. You all flip out so easy! Think about it!
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 253	Posted - 2013.02.26 23:03:00 - [42] - Quote Jariel Manton wrote: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSd18iCLePHKT2KKlRrzhhXGyx4JfHjr4YvMckmF8xPBQMyXFmt Whoooooo cares?? You can get to level 5 with like 2 weeks of saving SP. In a month or two EVERYONE will have a proto suit whether it was bought with AUR or ISK is irrelevant. You all flip out so easy! Think about it! Think? You ask too much of people. I for one find all the QQing highly entertaining.
Knight SoIaire Better Hide R Die 32	Posted - 2013.02.26 23:03:00 - [43] - Quote I dont care, my MD doesn't care wheter you're running a Proto or MLT, it will still chew them up
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.02.26 23:09:00 - [44] - Quote I agree, how can you unlock a proto suit before a Bseries??? AUR proto suits should be unlocked at level 5 like before!!!
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 435	Posted - 2013.02.26 23:10:00 - [45] - Quote this "p2W" proto suit is not the best one, there are 2 proto suits for isk and this AUR suit is the lesser suit....
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 253	Posted - 2013.02.26 23:11:00 - [46] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I agree, how can you unlock a proto suit before a Bseries??? AUR proto suits should be unlocked at level 5 like before!!! Then what's the point? Make them better than ISK variants and then it will definitely be P2W. The only benefit would be if they're cheaper, but then your just trading real time for real money.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 228	Posted - 2013.02.27 00:06:00 - [47] - Quote ZOMG, not every vk.0 is the lesser of the two suits, Logis would definitely be one area that is the case, depending on playstyle. Also it doesnt take 2 weeks to get from Level 3 to Level 5 dont care how much you're playing you aint getting 2M SP in 2 weeks. Does it matter, meh not really considering right now as far as vets like me are concerned this isnt even pay to get ahead, its pay to be even as most of the vets have are within 1-2 weeks away from proto suit. That said new players are effed. But im done arguing about this P2W, i regret using that word and perhaps threw it out too easily, but to say that this isnt an issue and cant create an imbalance in Corp Warfare is really mindboggling. Oh well. whatever i have disposable income in RL and in game so im not the one who gets hurt by this. Done trying to be the fair guy who DOESNT WANT UNEEDED UNFAIR ADVANTAGES for myself, but if you want to give them to me then efff ill take it, abuse the crap out of it and enjoy it till the QQ comes back and i can say well i told you so.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 254	Posted - 2013.02.27 00:16:00 - [48] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: That said new players are effed. But im done arguing about this P2W, i regret using that word and perhaps threw it out too easily, but to say that this isnt an issue and cant create an imbalance in Corp Warfare is really mindboggling. Oh well. whatever i have disposable income in RL and in game so im not the one who gets hurt by this. Done trying to be the fair guy who DOESNT WANT UNEEDED UNFAIR ADVANTAGES for myself, but if you want to give them to me then efff ill take it, abuse the crap out of it and enjoy it till the QQ comes back and i can say well i told you so. I have yet to spend a single cent on this game and even though I suck, I honestly don't see the problem.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 96	Posted - 2013.02.27 01:08:00 - [49] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: At this point a smart player doesnt lose proto suits and certainly if they do go down they damn well make sure they get revived so the suit doesnt get consumed so they dont buy more and CCP get less AUR in the long run. Not if you kill 'em with a grenade, shotgun, mass driver, or more often than not HMG. Whole lotta ways for that suit to get mulched to pieces.
Deadeyes Anterie Crimson Ravens Talons RISE of LEGION 273	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:11:00 - [50] - Quote Tested out the proto suit and It basically makes me feel god like. Coming from ~600 EHP in my assault type II, to my now ~880HP in my proto, not to mention the crazy power and CPU grid, I can use whatever I want and the extra equipment. It's a massive advantage that will not be so bad in a few months once people get the VK. 1 which is a much better suit.

crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 887	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:17:00 - [51] - Quote 2 million sp so level 3 to 4 takes with hitting the active cap, 400,000 a week, 5 weeks.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 230	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:20:00 - [52] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: 2 million sp so level 3 to 4 takes with hitting the active cap, 400,000 a week, 5 weeks. Level 3 to 4 takes 696Kish SP so thats a one and half weeks more.
Sylvana Nightwind Expert Intervention Caldari State 60	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:28:00 - [53] - Quote BGoat wrote: I can't believe they did this. What a terrible idea... Making certain weapons purchasable with AUR is one thing, making the dropsuits that should be a big reward for anyone committing a couple million SP to unlocking them is quite another. Certain items should be ISK only. At least that way, usage would be limited somewhat. Now, people can just buy as many of these suits as they want and they don't have to worry about running out of ISK. So much for the Market... Those people that have so much money will start selling aur items on market when that arrives, and you still don't have to pay anything to get exact same suits with isk, just have to wait tiny bit longer to get SP. What's the problem? Pay to win would be if that suit had any kind of advantage over the isk variant of the same suit. AND IT DOES NOT.
FIRECRACKER your moma OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 0	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:30:00 - [54] - Quote thank you for taking my 2mil. sp = level 3-4 ,4-5 drop suite. i had 30mil isk level 5 drop suit,advanced plate,complex dam., exile. i had a blast. blood and death lol. i earnd this skin . day cap save all.. i have mixed feelings on this . 2,000,000 mil. sp = what 25 cents . i spent 15 mil over 40 vko , 40 vk1 give me bigger give me new eden
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 255	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:35:00 - [55] - Quote FIRECRACKER your moma wrote: thank you for taking my 2mil. sp = level 3-4 ,4-5 drop suite. i had 30mil isk level 5 drop suit,advanced plate,complex dam., exile. i had a blast. blood and death lol. i earnd this skin . day cap save all.. i have mixed feelings on this . 2,000,000 mil. sp = what 25 cents . 8 cents bro....
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1061	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:52:00 - [56] - Quote Does somebody thought on the other side of the medal? I highly doubt it. Set yourself into the situation of a player that just started out and has to face the experienced players with high end proto stuff. Now from the newbie's perspective you who allready spent alot of time to unlock the regular proto suits have a far bigger advantage against him. In reality you cant say its p2w or p4a. I would say its p2kup (pay to keep up), you aint angry cause somebody had to put less SP into it to use it. No you are mad cause you lost your advantage against a new player. Yeah you could say p2w in the beginning month of this game but that time has passed on by far now and most of the players have advanced/proto gear. Just get over it you Eve crybabys. The only case of p2w at the moment are fused locus grenades cause they just doesnt exist on the marketplace for ISK. And sure why no AUR vehicles? I would love some fresh meat that i can 1 shot with my sagaris railgun and knowing that the other guy payd hard money for it.
FIRECRACKER your moma OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 0	Posted - 2013.02.27 02:57:00 - [57] - Quote not mad , just a lot of time. this is new eden the grownd be shaking
The2 Holgg BetaMax Beta 47	Posted - 2013.02.27 04:16:00 - [58] - Quote Now lets say you die on average twice per game. You play 3 games a day. How you die can be anything from Tactical strikes, shotgun to the face, Remote explosive, you get the drift. what you get is: 2(you die)3(number of games)7(one week)4(month)+2(the days you miss in a full month) = 170(Proto's)160(AUR price) Total of 27200 AUR per month. I am more happy to put my points in to boosters. Am here for the long run.
Morathi III Rebelles A Quebec 58	Posted - 2013.02.27 04:30:00 - [59] - Quote I just cant believe some in the community disagree this, you want better gameplay? You want this game goes on PS4? You want this game goes on district mechanic? All answer is yes. Myself i just bought my 7th mercenary pack because of this suit even if i still have a lot of AUR, im interested in this scout suit and the other AUR gear are just useless so nobody use AUR except booster. I want a better game and this game need money, the real big winner with this suit is all the community because the money spend for the new suit are put in this game! Yes perhaps you lose a very small KDR because some get stronger with this advantage but honestly all player write on this treat are good player, i just cant believe you dont see the benefit for this investment in the game... Come on plz like you all said new eden is a dangerous place yes and this new stuff prove it ( and you can have it in isk with the same stats!)
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 232	Posted - 2013.02.27 04:43:00 - [60] - Quote After further discussion with some of my peers and some of the posts ive read im inclined to agree that i was mistaken about my stance on this issue. I did mention earlier that from a vets point of view this is actually a pay to keep up feature for a very low cost that can be a good bridge until SP rollover comes through. But my main concern was new players who get AUR gear like this compared to new players who stick only F2P then thats is at least one month disparity for them. It was this concept in mind that drove the idea to make the suit more expensive or unlockable at level 4 until such a time as tech 2 or higher end gear becomes avaliable and then just like any "luxury" item depreciation it becomes cheaper and available at a lower SP level as its inherent "value" will have decreased in time compared to the veteran playerbase. This concept is something i think CCP should consider long term in terms of their AUR item pricing and availability plan. For me personally the AUR proto is a bridge for the next 2 weeks, but AUR priority for me will always be boosters. Fortunately rebate money from corsair came in and thats another merc pack for me. And also Corp Battles were a concern which will eventually decide FW sov but there was flaw in my logic in that veteran players would have a potential time advantage and that could be more detrimental in corps fighting over sov and i didnt fully consider that aspect of the argument that could also be equalized by newer corp with AUR. But in the end i never claimed AUR proto suits should not exist in the game only that they should either cost higher or be available slightly later, then again if this is the model CCP projects will earn them the best revenue stream than im all for it because i do want this game to survive and CCP to make a profit. In conclusion currently much of AUR gear is pay to get ahead but as the community gets more time in game these items will become pay to keep up and CCP will need to release new AUR items to get ahead and then reduce the cost and SP requirements to use these current AUR items as they will have less value compared to what veteran players will have access to.



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