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Grief PK
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
13
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Posted - 2013.02.25 23:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
CPL Bloodstone wrote:interesting posts.
btw, PK does stand for Player Killer, however it came from MUDS (multi-user dungeon), PRE mmo's. Now i'm showing my age.
I am a casual gamer and believe there shouldn't be a SP cap either. You should be rewarded for your time.
However, I believe there could be a bonus SP in place to assist the casual gamer maybe that changes on play style based on weekly sp gain.
The power gamer will always have the upper hand as they put in the time. This game, like eve, will allow you to specialize quickly and learn alot of things slowly. I dont believe there will be that much of a drawback from someone who has 3 mil sp vs someone who has 10 mil sp. Just 10 mil sp guy has more options and can generalize.
My 2 isk.
... precisely sir! Great post, and thank you for the history on PK, its exciting to know it goes all the way back to MUDs! |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.25 23:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Man, I can't imagine having the type of free time you guys have. I feel guilty allowing myself the four or five hours a week I do now. |
Dr Debo Galaxy
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
201
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Posted - 2013.02.25 23:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Remember golden eye? There was no progression, there was no leveling. There was only the fun of playing a game. Personally i don't get the arguement of the game is not rewarding me. Isn't playing the game the reward. If I tell you every time you email me you get 2 xp would you do that just because I give you fake points? The fun is the game not the SP. IMO |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2013.02.26 00:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Gunner Niv wrote:Wanted to add some info to show people exactly what the cap means.
Lets say the average player participates in battle for say 4hrs at 20mins per game while the cap is in place:
3000sp per hour
12000sp per day
84000sp per week
336000sp per month
OH NUMBERS! I like me some numbers. Are ppl without boosters also hitting the cap in a couple of days? Assuming each game is 20 Minutes then we have 1500sp (Active Booster) per 20Min Let a day be 4 hours of play
4500 per hour
18000sp per day (4 hours)
126000 per 7 days (28 hours)
556000 per 31 days (124 hours)
However, 4 hours a day is pretty light for a grinder. It would be more likely that they are playing 8 hours a day and maybe 16 hours on non work days or school days. Yes, I know thats virtually no life outside of the game, and they usually only keep that up for a couple weeks before taking a break. But lets say they hit the sp cap on friday night and started grinding again on saturday (beginning of their 2 days off from work)
4500 per hour 36000 per 8 hours 72000 per 16 hours Saturday-Sunday 144000 sp Monday-Tuesday 72000 sp Total grind with sp cap 216000 sp This is what a power grinder would be likely to make in a week. I sometimes follow this pattern when I have nothing else going on, so lets say I had alot of stamina with no life and kept this up for a 4 week month. 864000 sp per month |
Grief PK
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
13
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Posted - 2013.02.26 00:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Pent'noir wrote:Gunner Niv wrote:Wanted to add some info to show people exactly what the cap means.
Lets say the average player participates in battle for say 4hrs at 20mins per game while the cap is in place:
3000sp per hour
12000sp per day
84000sp per week
336000sp per month
OH NUMBERS! I like me some numbers. Are ppl without boosters also hitting the cap in a couple of days? Assuming each game is 20 Minutes then we have 1500sp (Active Booster) per 20Min Let a day be 4 hours of play 4500 per hour 18000sp per day (4 hours) 126000 per 7 days (28 hours) 556000 per 31 days (124 hours) However, 4 hours a day is pretty light for a grinder. It would be more likely that they are playing 8 hours a day and maybe 16 hours on non work days or school days. Yes, I know thats virtually no life outside of the game, and they usually only keep that up for a couple weeks before taking a break. But lets say they hit the sp cap on friday night and started grinding again on saturday (beginning of their 2 days off from work) 4500 per hour 36000 per 8 hours 72000 per 16 hours Saturday-Sunday 144000 sp Monday-Tuesday 72000 sp Total grind with sp cap 216000 sp This is what a power grinder would be likely to make in a week. I sometimes follow this pattern when I have nothing else going on, so lets say I had alot of stamina with no life and kept this up for a 4 week month. 864000 sp per month
Good Breakdown sir. I would say I fall into the 4hr category on my sprints. You are correct it only lasts a week or two then you take a break and come back refreshed after a bit. I am glad we are looking at numbers, it gives really good perspective. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
4
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Posted - 2013.02.26 08:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Well the numbers count for Skirmish, this is not optimal for grinding. I would give Ambush a shot. On average my ambush matches lasts for 7 min with, restocking and searching lets say 10 min per match. Assuming you are a halfway decent player and get 1000WP per match.
Without Booster 6000 / h 24000 per 4 hrs 168000 per Week (4hrs)
with booster 9000 per hour 36000 per 4 hrs 252000 per week (7 Days, 4 hrs)
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Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2013.02.26 08:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'd say 9k/hr is really good for grinding if you just want to grind sp. Although, my hat tips to you because I can't stand ambush. I need an objective. A 20 min skirmish match is pretty conservative, but the ambush would still be the way to go. So I guess there is the answer. If you think the 4.5k/hr is too small, then try the ambush 9k/hr. It is double the sp rate. |
Gunner Niv
Playstation Soldiers
2
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Posted - 2013.02.26 10:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dr Debo Galaxy wrote:Remember golden eye? There was no progression, there was no leveling. There was only the fun of playing a game. Personally i don't get the arguement of the game is not rewarding me. Isn't playing the game the reward. If I tell you every time you email me you get 2 xp would you do that just because I give you fake points? The fun is the game not the SP. IMO
The thing with Golden Eye is there was a story, you wanted to get to the end of it as completing the game was what you were working towards, however.......
Lets go back to a time before widespread use of home consoles and talk about the arcade era. What you wanted to achieve was a higher score than everyone else, you wanted your name on the leaderboard for all to see. The driving force was the prestige of knowing you were better than most if not all who used the machine.
The driving force behind Dust is gaining skills, there is no ranking system as such which leaves you striving to unlock and earn more equipment to use in game. Capping the SP points is counter productive given the fact you're on one hand saying "look at all this stuff you can earn", whilst also saying "you can only unlock it all if you dedicate a couple of years of your life."
To me it's like passing your driving test, taking to the motorway and getting part of the way through your journey then a speed restriction kicks in slowing you to 20mph, what's the point in the motorway if you cannot do 70mph?
The fact that SP was included in the game and then limited is what bugs me, the game itself is enjoyable but I want the ability to upgrade skills at a rate that is quicker than one or two every other week.
I understand some casual gamers will cry and moan because other people have better stuff due to having free time, but it's no different to most other online games. Call of duty for example (which I have little interest in) has a system where "hardcore" gamers can strive for prestige whereas casual gamers can jump right in and enjoy a battle while trying to unlock a new weapon or perk. This keeps people interested.
Socom however went another way, everyone started with the same weapons and played either for a clan or to get their rank or kdr up. The way Socom was set up meant it had a dedicated following throughout the series, the same players were always there every time a new game came out. As it turns out it was the social aspect of the game that kept people coming back. To this day I maintain real friendships which were born out of clan battles and endless hours playing along side each other.
I enjoy gaming for it's various rewards, both social (creating friendships) and virtual (SP or Unlocks), but I feel that when adding one of these features it's insane to limit their capabilities. Would you be just as content to accept everything the devs decided if when you got chatting to someone on Dust a little voice came over the comms saying "you''ve been chatting for an hour, for the rest of the day you may only contact each other in text format"? Or if you were in a gun fight you were met with a message saying due to the fact you've fired 500 bullets today your clip size will now be reduced to 5?
I really don't understand the logic behind a dev limiting a players potential based purely on the fact they wish to succeed in the game the devs created, surely the whole point of the game is for people to play and succeed while having fun? By limiting the SP you limit the number of players willing to dedicate their time to the game and if the feedback from my friends is anything to go by, the devs have already shot themselves in the foot as almost unanimously they agree the game is pointless as they cannot unlock anything useful. |
Fremder V1
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.26 15:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
I too doubt the cap existst mainly to protect the fun of casual gamers, since (like mentioned by others) they will fall behind anyway. There are more clever ways to deal with that. For example an entertaining gamemode where everyone starts with standard-gear, so one can have a fair fight while gathering some exp.
To me it seems this SP-cap-thingy was either not well thought through, or planned as a temporary measure/some test in the first place.
Thus far, the game strongly focuses on gaining SP/skills as a main motivator. The things you can buy with real money are a clear indicator for that... Which also might be part of the problem: There isn't much else to buy yet. If powergamer can get their advantage by playing alone, they won't feel the desire to spend much money on the current offerings... I wouldn't.
I say to counter that, bring us hats instead! ...Or rather an equivalent. Especially badass looking high-tier armor, some shiny energy cannons, a demonic face one can paint on their dropship and whatnot. As long as stats and skill requirements are the same as those of their counterparts, no one has a real reason to complain, and i am sure people would by it. People love to brag! Powergamer probably even more than casuals.
What the game needs, might just be more variety in game-modes and marketplace offerings. Different stuff for different crowds. And maybe that's allready planned. I hope so. A SP-cap would be obselete than. It mostly repells possible customers. |
Gunner Niv
Playstation Soldiers
2
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Posted - 2013.02.26 15:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Fremder V1 wrote:I too doubt the cap existst mainly to protect the fun of casual gamers, since (like mentioned by others) they will fall behind anyway. There are more clever ways to deal with that. For example an entertaining gamemode where everyone starts with standard-gear, so one can have a fair fight while gathering some exp.
To me it seems this SP-cap-thingy was either not well thought through, or planned as a temporary measure/some test in the first place.
Thus far, the game strongly focuses on gaining SP/skills as a main motivator. The things you can buy with real money are a clear indicator for that... Which also might be part of the problem: There isn't much else to buy yet. If powergamer can get their advantage by playing alone, they won't feel the desire to spend much money on the current offerings... I wouldn't.
I say to counter that, bring us hats instead! ...Or rather an equivalent. Especially badass looking high-tier armor, some shiny energy cannons, a demonic face one can paint on their dropship and whatnot. As long as stats and skill requirements are the same as those of their counterparts, no one has a real reason to complain, and i am sure people would by it. People love to brag! Powergamer probably even more than casuals.
What the game needs might just be more variety in gamemodes and marketplace offerings. Different stuff for different crowds. And maybe that's allready planned. I hope so. A SP-cap would be obsolete than. It mostly repells possible customers.
Simple idea for the casual gamers to get started, add an in game system where new players earn say 50% more SP up until 1m or 1.5m, then the bonus drops off and they earn what the rest get. Means they get a decent start to catch up a little and if they feel like hanging around they should be a decent enough standard to hold their own against most. |
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Severus Smith
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
163
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Posted - 2013.02.26 16:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
I just wish they did all passive, like EVE, so that people wouldn't focus on SP but on ISK (which is what matters). With SP as a reward it will skew everything because people will pay exuberant amounts of ISK for a few more skill points. SP will always be king if Active rewards remain.
They should just implement Passive at 1000 SP an hour with a special Booster that costs roughly $15 USD for 30 days that doubles it. That gives us 168,000 a week (336,000 boosted) and 720,000 a month (1,440,000 boosted) which is in line with EVE SP gains (~ 1,000,000 a month). There, no more problems with people trying to exploit systems, or go play crazy amounts to farm 1,000 SP a match, or be stuck playing hours of pointless PUB matches to get SP. Simple, easy, and New Eden style. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2013.02.27 00:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
passive works in eve because it is a subscription game. It would have a hard time in a f2p model because it promotes creating an account and letting it sit for a year, so no booster money for ccp. While we do have passive and that is always an option, since there is active sp, it gives an incentive to play and buy boosters. It's all about the boosters and which method will make ppl buy more of them. |
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