DUST Search - [feedback] piloting the nonprofession

knight of 6 wrote:

[soma, sica, gunnogi, madragar, Myron, militia caldari dropship]

i've been on about vehicles needing work since august. some get op, some get nerf but they all still suck.

the problem: people don't see good pilots go down but they see insane K/D's at the end of the match. they see pilots dominating and turning the tides of battles from match to match and come to the conclusion (reasonably) that vehicles must be overpowered/ AV must be underpowered. who wouldn't see it that way when all you see is the tank?

why it's wrong: they don't see all the matches pilots spend as infantry paying for their losses. a well fit vehicle cost 5 to 6 times the cost of a well fit dropsuit. thus they should last 6 times as long. with the plethora of AV available vehicles don't last that well. secondly you absolutely cannot cross train a vehicle. pilots trade their ability to fight as infantry for the ability to drive. infantry can always fall back on their starter fits and have them but with the advantage that they get 5% here and 10% because of various skills that they have for their more expensive suits. pilots have no such luxury when we aren't in our element we're no better than first day players.

all opinions are welcome simply put what vehicles you have driven (i mean really driven like when out of your way to fit well) at the top in brackets if you haven't simply put [none].

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knight of 6 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 66	Posted - 2013.02.20 02:08:00 - [1] - Quote [soma, sica, gunnogi, madragar, Myron, militia caldari dropship] i've been on about vehicles needing work since august. some get op, some get nerf but they all still suck. the problem: people don't see good pilots go down but they see insane K/D's at the end of the match. they see pilots dominating and turning the tides of battles from match to match and come to the conclusion (reasonably) that vehicles must be overpowered/ AV must be underpowered. who wouldn't see it that way when all you see is the tank? why it's wrong: they don't see all the matches pilots spend as infantry paying for their losses. a well fit vehicle cost 5 to 6 times the cost of a well fit dropsuit. thus they should last 6 times as long. with the plethora of AV available vehicles don't last that well. secondly you absolutely cannot cross train a vehicle. pilots trade their ability to fight as infantry for the ability to drive. infantry can always fall back on their starter fits and have them but with the advantage that they get 5% here and 10% because of various skills that they have for their more expensive suits. pilots have no such luxury when we aren't in our element we're no better than first day players. all opinions are welcome simply put what vehicles you have driven (i mean really driven like when out of your way to fit well) at the top in brackets if you haven't simply put [none].
Meeko Fent Kinsho Swords Caldari State 12	Posted - 2013.02.20 03:06:00 - [2] - Quote Honestly, I don't Much care about the Vehicle v. Infantry Play Rule # 1 When Fightingg with Vehicles as Infantry? Don't Fight Vehicles as Infantry You Know, you could train your Assault Dropsuit to 1 and you Preferred Tanking style to 1 and your AR Op to 1 so when you have to Bail, you can at least get to a safe Vehicle spawning point W/O Getting Butcher'd My Vehicle? Oh thats just My Feet.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 384	Posted - 2013.02.20 12:46:00 - [3] - Quote In my experience a lot of the passive skills you train up for vehicles crossover's to your suit's and vice versa. I've been speccing into DS for 2 weeks now and already have myrons and access to advanced turrets, and my logi hasn't really suffered, but then again we can't compete 1 on 1 with the dedicated infantry
Eris Ernaga Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety 26	Posted - 2013.02.20 12:51:00 - [4] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: [soma, sica, gunnogi, madragar, Myron, militia caldari dropship] i've been on about vehicles needing work since august. some get op, some get nerf but they all still suck. the problem: people don't see good pilots go down but they see insane K/D's at the end of the match. they see pilots dominating and turning the tides of battles from match to match and come to the conclusion (reasonably) that vehicles must be overpowered/ AV must be underpowered. who wouldn't see it that way when all you see is the tank? why it's wrong: they don't see all the matches pilots spend as infantry paying for their losses. a well fit vehicle cost 5 to 6 times the cost of a well fit dropsuit. thus they should last 6 times as long. with the plethora of AV available vehicles don't last that well. secondly you absolutely cannot cross train a vehicle. pilots trade their ability to fight as infantry for the ability to drive. infantry can always fall back on their starter fits and have them but with the advantage that they get 5% here and 10% because of various skills that they have for their more expensive suits. pilots have no such luxury when we aren't in our element we're no better than first day players. all opinions are welcome simply put what vehicles you have driven (i mean really driven like when out of your way to fit well) at the top in brackets if you haven't simply put [none]. My drop suits cost around 40 - 50 thousand isk that's actually 13 to 14 times less then my tanks worth. Also some skills are cross trained like tank modules also train dropsuit shield modules.
J Lav Lost-Legion 28	Posted - 2013.02.20 14:00:00 - [5] - Quote [Soma, Sica, Viper, Myron] People who haven't tried it don't know the cost of running a decent vehicle. It's risky, and costs a lot of ISK. My 400,000 ISK drop ship randomly detonated while playing yesterday. My Sica bumped a rock and blew up. My Soma can't maneuver very well with a controller, so without people clearing out the swarm launchers with infinite range, I'm toast and out another 300-400,000. Unless I last the whole round, it's totally not profitable to bring one in. Dropships are even worse, since you can't even get any WP for what you do. My feeling is that due to the structure of the game, there is a massive difference between an entry level tank and a super high powered tank. There is also a massive disparity between the basic AV and the advanced AV. I've designed and released a few board games, and though I'm not the best designer out there, I am aware of some of the principles. In game design, we often consider this as potential swing. It's like bowling gutters, you can't control what the player does in the alley, but you can control the gutters. The farther apart the gutters, the further potential swing. If the swing is too large, then you end up with tanks that cannot be killed, and AV weapons that cannot be stopped when facing someone on the other edge of the gutter. This boils down to a chance element, offset by player skill. So bringing in a tank to a match without a squad is like rolling dice. The result is not a reflection of the dice themselves, (the tanks or the AV). Therefore the only good chance you can give yourself is to save up and only bring in super powerful vehicles and hope they don't blow up when you hit the repair module or bump something.
Panther Alpha Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 44	Posted - 2013.02.20 15:04:00 - [6] - Quote I'm an infantry guy my self, and what you say is true. I can make a 1,000,000 isk very quick, because the reasons you just explained. I also hear the problems that my corp leader have maintaining his tanks and dropships, the other day. So i decided to try to donate 1,000,000 isk to my corp every couple of days, to help with this issue. I guess is up to the infantry players, to help their corp both in battle, and outside the battlefield.


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