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Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
207
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Posted - 2013.04.21 00:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
+1, tend to agree, and definitely spawning on CRUs makes far more sense than materializing at NCs. One thing I would add is that in this system, some of the CRUs would need to be placed such that it was between hard and impossible to blow them up with a HAV or Forge Gun. Otherwise one team could just blow up all the CRUs, and then even if one or two the other team breaks out of the redline to get a hack, they're still kittened without support. |
We are 138
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
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Posted - 2013.04.21 00:30:00 -
[62] - Quote
Spacetits CDXX wrote:+1, tend to agree, and definitely spawning on CRUs makes far more sense than materializing at NCs. One thing I would add is that in this system, some of the CRUs would need to be placed such that it was between hard and impossible to blow them up with a HAV or Forge Gun. Otherwise one team could just blow up all the CRUs, and then even if one or two the other team breaks out of the redline to get a hack, they're still kittened without support.
Indeed, putting the CRUs inside a small building, like a bunker (has been mentioned earlier) would keep them from being blown up. Also I agree that the current mechanics are a bit flawed and spawn on objective is not the way to go. |
Torr Wrath
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
174
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Posted - 2013.04.21 01:22:00 -
[63] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:Spawning on objecives is lame in every gameplay mechanic. In fact, I hate slawning c from thin air in general, especially in front of enemies. It is very immersiveness-breaking in general.
I have always liked protected spawn buildings or bunkers that allow you to spawn, get your bearings, and push out, protected at least inside the building from your enemies.
Planetside 2's spawn buildings are a great example. Multiple exits, but they keep the focus on controlling the objective because otherwise the protection and spawn point changes over.
Now, the spawn buildings are a little bit large for DUST's purposes, so I would instead propose that the spawning mechanism for CRUs is this:
Instead of appearing randomly outside the CRU, you spawn INTO the CRU viewing the surroundings through third person, much like the bunkers in MAG worked. Then, you spawn outside by pressing X and viewing a certain direction. (Almost entirely copied from MAG.)
I actually really like this idea. +1 |
Lynn Beck
Forsaken Legion-0
3
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Posted - 2013.04.21 01:26:00 -
[64] - Quote
+1 One guy noted spawning with RDV, i say why not just spawn with that pod in the opening video? |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
97
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Posted - 2013.04.21 01:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
Torr Wrath wrote:J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:Spawning on objecives is lame in every gameplay mechanic. In fact, I hate slawning c from thin air in general, especially in front of enemies. It is very immersiveness-breaking in general.
I have always liked protected spawn buildings or bunkers that allow you to spawn, get your bearings, and push out, protected at least inside the building from your enemies.
Planetside 2's spawn buildings are a great example. Multiple exits, but they keep the focus on controlling the objective because otherwise the protection and spawn point changes over.
Now, the spawn buildings are a little bit large for DUST's purposes, so I would instead propose that the spawning mechanism for CRUs is this:
Instead of appearing randomly outside the CRU, you spawn INTO the CRU viewing the surroundings through third person, much like the bunkers in MAG worked. Then, you spawn outside by pressing X and viewing a certain direction. (Almost entirely copied from MAG.) I actually really like this idea. +1 Agreed, except the third person part. We should spawn inside the CRU and have a 130 degree field of vision, through a small visor or something. Any enemies behind you should be highlighted on your map if anybody else spawns in the GÇ£opposite sideGÇ¥.
Objective spawning isn't the problem with skirmish IMO, I think the fact that a smart or experienced team can wipe you out when you're trying to just get out of your ground spawn or MCC is the problem. On many occasions I've been dropped into a match where the enemy has nearly full shields on the MCC and our team has had nearly no armour, with three enemy tanks patrolling the front of our ground spawn and MCC. THIS is the problem. |
Ellithana Mori
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
26
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Posted - 2013.04.21 04:19:00 -
[66] - Quote
The other good part, is it could easily reduce or eliminate the need for an arbitrary spawn timer that is as long as it is (especially not one that is as long as it is). The only real reason we need a spawn timer is so that we can't just continuously respawn on an objective that's in the middle of being hacked. If we can't spawn there anyway, then it doesn't really matter, and the point is moot. Especially since CRUs don't flash when they're getting hacked, so even if you're losing one, you have no idea which one until it's too late. Further if we have to sit through a little animation when coming out the CRU, then there's really no need for a spawn timer, which is a super arbitrary and immersion breaking mechanic.... |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
429
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Posted - 2013.04.21 17:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
I agree that spawning on objectives is problematic both gameplay and lore wise.
The main problem I see with this would be that it would likely increase redline outcomes (at least in pub matches). Also there would be a severe equipment balance shift towards uplinks. Almost to the point where "the team with the most uplinks on the map wins".
What if all spawns at objectives were changed to orbital drop spawns? Essentially inertia dampened drops like from the MCC (but maybe with extra flair). This would fix a lot of issues. 1. Lore friendly (we come from somewhere) 2. There would be a visible and audible sign that a player spawned in. 3. There would be a delay from the kneeling position to standing and fighting. 4. Players would get a brief view of the area while falling to reduce "where am I?" effect.
One problem to solve with this would be handling objectives under cover. Do you spawn further away? On the roof? A mix? |
Jathniel
G I A N T EoN.
172
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Posted - 2013.04.21 17:38:00 -
[68] - Quote
I don't actually mind the objective spawning. You hack the objectives, and you better have a squadmate covering your back. Or you can use your head. If you just killed someone, you know it's going to be between 8-15 seconds before they respawn. During this time, do not attempt to hack if you are alone. Kill them when they respawn, THEN hack.
But barring that...
How about a mobile backpack drop uplink module only useable by squad leaders?
As long as the squad leader is alive at an objective, his uplink module will carry at least 1 additional spawn per squad member at his position.
This enables both a persistant attack and defense, without having lore-violating spawns, or objective spawning. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
886
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ellithana Mori wrote:The other good part, is it could easily reduce or eliminate the need for an arbitrary spawn timer that is as long as it is (especially not one that is as long as it is). The only real reason we need a spawn timer is so that we can't just continuously respawn on an objective that's in the middle of being hacked. If we can't spawn there anyway, then it doesn't really matter, and the point is moot. Especially since CRUs don't flash when they're getting hacked, so even if you're losing one, you have no idea which one until it's too late. Further if we have to sit through a little animation when coming out the CRU, then there's really no need for a spawn timer, which is a super arbitrary and immersion breaking mechanic....
I really have to disagree here, elimination of the spawn timer (all possible mechanical implications which there may or may not be aside) would require a total overhaul of the Dropuplinks stats and lore. One of the key aspects many offer is a reduced spawn timer which this would invalidate completely thus reducing the diversity of equipment options in game. Also the spawn timer is only 2-3 sec when someone holds rather than bleeds out instantly thus allowing time to be revived and saving clones (valuable in both Ambush and Skirmish) and saving ISK in PC where clones will have a buy price.
Moving back to lore there's no reason instant transfer of consciousness and physical form holds to the present lore more fully. A space side transfer takes 24 hours to move into a Jump Clone. Obviously this is totally untenable for Dust and I wouldn't want that mechanic transferred however "spawning out of thin air" simply isn't as far as lore is concerned. Uplinks have wormhole/blackhole tech in them which creates the spawn location, if such tech can be deployed in a small mobile disc then it can certainly be included in larger ground based infrastructure like the Null Cannons.
I'm not saying that lore can/should invalidate the point of this thread but if we're going with lore/immersion in game then the fixes called for are pretty much the opposite of this threads proposals. Personally while I do think lore is important I also think mechanical balance trumps lore.
0.02 ISK Cross
ps ~ one more thing, more related to the OP, the worst situation for removing tactical game play from a match is redline camping (and I don't mean camping within the red zone, that's second place) I mean red lining a team in the first place. Earnings in WP/ISK/SP are higher for longer matches and matches were one team isn't camped in leaving the opposing team at least one objective is more rewarding both from the stand point of all in game earnings and from the standpoint of basic entertainment value of the match. Furthermore when PC comes out there will be times (depending on side) when you want to clone a team not destroy their MCC, in which case red lining them becomes bad tactical play on a whole new level. We need to be very careful not to add any new mechanics that can encourage this non-tactical redline centric "rinse and repeat" quick match style play, it's less fun, less rewarding and requires less ability. The practice of "redlining" should be discouraged and any new mechanics should at minimum avoid making it any easier/more likely.
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I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
240
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Posted - 2013.05.19 22:42:00 -
[70] - Quote
+1 |
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Absolute Idiom II
Amarr Immortal Volunteers
129
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Posted - 2013.06.27 15:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
+1. I too would like to see skirmish control point spawning removed. This is one thing that Domination mode does right! |
major faux-pas
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
30
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:34:00 -
[72] - Quote
+1
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2013.06.27 21:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
+1
I'd also like for there to NOT be any CRUs at objectives for the same reason. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
163
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Posted - 2013.06.27 22:13:00 -
[74] - Quote
Why not remove all crus and objective spawning altogether and return the mccs to cruising across the battlefield? Realistically this would raise the value of proper tactical planning when using uplinks and allow for a breather for those that can capture both an objective and kill the team guarding it. The CRUs were not in the initial design and were added to provide a new place to spawn from but don't actually add any value to having them that the Uplinks don't already provide. This would remove 50wp from capturing an objective with a cru and allow people a chance to take a walk and enjoy the scenery or go for a ride. Mobile CRUs would then have some value as well and could maybe start generating WP for pilots. CRUs could be replaced by a shield generation station which when hacked would allow safe spawning within the shield via drop uplink. The shield would replenish shields so merc spawning into gunfire would have a sizable boost to their shields after taking damage and still allowing the shield generation station to be hacked. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1001
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Posted - 2013.06.27 22:24:00 -
[75] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Why not remove all crus and objective spawning altogether and return the mccs to cruising across the battlefield? Realistically this would raise the value of proper tactical planning when using uplinks and allow for a breather for those that can capture both an objective and kill the team guarding it. The CRUs were not in the initial design and were added to provide a new place to spawn from but don't actually add any value to having them that the Uplinks don't already provide. This would remove 50wp from capturing an objective with a cru and allow people a chance to take a walk and enjoy the scenery or go for a ride. Mobile CRUs would then have some value as well and could maybe start generating WP for pilots. CRUs could be replaced by a shield generation station which when hacked would allow safe spawning within the shield via drop uplink. The shield would replenish shields so merc spawning into gunfire would have a sizable boost to their shields after taking damage and still allowing the shield generation station to be hacked.
that isnt a bad idea at all. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4608
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Posted - 2013.06.28 23:23:00 -
[76] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=980280#post980280 CCP LogicLoop wants to hear your opinions on objective spawning, click the link and give him your feedback. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
849
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Posted - 2013.07.13 23:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
Bump because this needs noticed by CCP. |
Lightning Bolt2
DUST University Ivy League
50
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Posted - 2013.07.14 03:44:00 -
[78] - Quote
I haven't read the thread past the OP.
I agree also wheres the RPG part of this? how is this the only unexplained place to spawn? its undervaluing CRU's Drop uplinks and mobile CRU vehicles. promoting the simple zerg rush over tactics! remove objective spawning, add APC's built for mobile spawning. extra CRU on maps? (not one for every objective, like one on tabletop in line harvest) removing objective spawn will make tactical gameplay a viable option other than zerg rush.
unfortunately this will also add a bigger prob of uplink spam this can be fixed by only allowing 1 type of uplink to be placed at a time (keep nanohives the same so a logi can use a triage and a ammo one at the same time depending on situation) |
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