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Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1035
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote:Free Beers wrote:A couple of facts to add doc
1 Laser has no recoil - AR does and also has build up recoil the longer you hold R1 2 Laser has 100% accuracy - AR has accuracy and bullet spread 3 Laser takes advantage of the broken damage mods (ccp always takes like 5 months to fix anything) 4 Lasers increase damage over time of holding R1 - AR has consistant damage (holding R1 just increases recoil) 5 Movement while firing a laser doesn't decrease its accuracy - Moving while using an AR decreases its accuracy and increaes bullet spread.
To add to the discussion
Laser has an optimal range with fall off on either side. It was never intended to be a close range weapon. Trying to say that its bad at close range so its already nerfed is lame. No on argues that snipers at close range are really hard to use so the damage/sway/ROF should be uber good.
Back to the damage mod issue. Lasers are like snipers as they are normally not in the direct line of fire. To be specific when on my laser alt I use an A series assualt with damage mods in highs and smg. I will use smg (notice i could give a **** that laser is weak up close) till i get to my spot and drop hives. Then switch to laser and melt face. Since I dont have to worry about moving around and engaging players in CQC I can always go gank fit suits. The amount of damage and accuracy a laser can do is devastating.
I have been on the other side of this last build. I was in fully buffed b series assualt suits with close to 760 ehp. I watch an imperfect alt with laser pick off 2 people and thought I could sneak out and take him down. I got a laser accross my head and was dead instantly. Whoops.
I would like the laser mechanics to be reworked especialy the lame skill bonuses. Is a laser OP? Yes it is to me. 1. concede...no recoil. 2. lasers do shoot where you aim but #1 already covered this... a weakness the laser has though is in a fight your advantage is to keep the beam on...making tracking an enemy a lot harder. Scouts are wicked annoying to zap down. 3. All guns gets this advantage? 4. this is its strength and weakness. I do 15-20 damage...we think with my first bullet. The AR does it's 30-36 something. As soon as I let cool down occur to adjust the shot I lose my "advantage". The last bullet in my clip does?200? we do not know but it is mean. But that is my heated up clip. I have to fire for a given amount of time to get there. AR is consistently given what you ask for damage wise. That is one reason I rather "depend" on the AR. 5. There is no laser that can really move and shoot and hit there target. (I sure can not and have not seen any) Watch any laser...we are only effective standing still. "That is why snipers love us...here am I free headshot!" The stories of light sabering and killing players in one "swipe" I believe to be exaggerated or maybe someone got an assist or something. With the clip of 100 and heat build where it is I have swiped players with the hot lasers and it does little damage. More then a swipe...then I get deadly but it is not a magic wand.
2. dust is not a twitch shooter is a consistant/tracking shooter. So every gun including lasers have to track. What i said is when swiping with a laser its 100% accurate. When swiping with a AR its much less. Since you have to track your target this gives big advantage to laser.
3. The reason laser like sniper get a bigger advantage is its not a line of fire role. If the user players properly to a lasers optimal they can stack damage mods. Same can be said of camping MD users.
4. The first seconds of a laser are worse then AR. when I use laser all i do is shoot down at ground in front of me to hide the beam or drop the beam in front of a red dot and swipe. Most of the time there is little to no warning to the victim. As long has I am standing on nanohive there is no issue. When I am moving around with a squad the tactics are completely different. I am more anti camper/sniper and run smg first. I do see players run around with lasers and kill while moving I just haven't played it enough yet.
5. As I said there are players that run around and move with lasers I have played with SGT Nova Star and Moe Joe to name a few. Yes they run smgs for close range. I haven't gotten the hang of moving with lasers as primary weapon yet.
My thing is I dont want lasers nerfed at all. I just think there is something broken about them but can't put my finger on it.
For the record most of my deaths that involve lasers is me trying to kill them and someone else shoots me or finishes me off. I have only be "lightsabered" a few times so far with high end suits. runing my 379 shield 187 armor suit the other day I got swiped once by MR turtle and left with 10 armor. Wasn't a head shot and he wasn't using a viz in the pub match. So by my math that was about 560~ damage.
Once more i love lasers just the mechanics need to be looked at and for petes sake ccp fix the skill bonuses |
Cody Sietz
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
63
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Posted - 2013.02.12 20:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
AR ONLY user here, and approve this topic.
Leave the laser alone.
Works at long range, sucks at short range.
If a AR user complains about, he is a secret sniper rifle user. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
165
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 20:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
I think the Laser Riffle is not seen as much because it is harder to learn to use it effectively than any other weapon.
- If you carefully line up a shot like you would with a sniper riffle you will do only a small amount of damage initially. If your target is not paying attention or if AFK and stays still long enough you will get the kill, but usually your target will start to run, and then you are left trying to hit a moving target before you overheat.
The best approach in theory is to start firing somewhere else and then swing your beam onto the target once you have heated up. However that is more easily said than done. Unless you have really good aim you are likely to overshoot your mark, slashing briefly across your target doing just enough damage to get your target running for cover. I had one guy conveniently run toward me and I swung my beam back and forth across him 5 times before he went down.
I get the impression while using the Laser Riffle that in the hands of a very skilled player this weapon could be deadly. In my hands... not so much.
- I have never run out of ammunition as much with any other weapon as I have with the Laser Riffle. Having a Nanohive is almost mandatory with that thing.
- Firing at someone just out of range is very frustrating. You line up the perfect shot, get your beam right on them, and do no damage what-so-ever.
- If someone gets close to you, you got to run like hell or switch to you SMG. The first few matches I did with a laser I spent a lot of time running.
- If someone uses cover and only exposes themselves long enough to fire a bursts at a time they will force me to let my Laser cool off each time so that I can only do my much reduced cold damage on them while they do full damage on me. (At least I know how to fight lasers now.)
The affect of Sharpshooter on minimum should be fixed, but otherwise I donGÇÖt think the laser riffle warrants either a buff nor a nerf. I still like my sniper riffle better, but running laser is an interesting challenge, and the chance of getting multiple kills if you find a group of reds huddled together is very appealing. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 20:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:A couple of facts to add doc
1 Laser has no recoil - AR does and also has build up recoil the longer you hold R1 2 Laser has 100% accuracy - AR has accuracy and bullet spread 3 Laser takes advantage of the broken damage mods (ccp always takes like 5 months to fix anything) 4 Lasers increase damage over time of holding R1 - AR has consistant damage (holding R1 just increases recoil) 5 Movement while firing a laser doesn't decrease its accuracy - Moving while using an AR decreases its accuracy and increaes bullet spread.
To add to the discussion
Laser has an optimal range with fall off on either side. It was never intended to be a close range weapon. Trying to say that its bad at close range so its already nerfed is lame. No on argues that snipers at close range are really hard to use so the damage/sway/ROF should be uber good.
Back to the damage mod issue. Lasers are like snipers as they are normally not in the direct line of fire. To be specific when on my laser alt I use an A series assualt with damage mods in highs and smg. I will use smg (notice i could give a **** that laser is weak up close) till i get to my spot and drop hives. Then switch to laser and melt face. Since I dont have to worry about moving around and engaging players in CQC I can always go gank fit suits. The amount of damage and accuracy a laser can do is devastating.
I have been on the other side of this last build. I was in fully buffed b series assualt suits with close to 760 ehp. I watch an imperfect alt with laser pick off 2 people and thought I could sneak out and take him down. I got a laser accross my head and was dead instantly. Whoops.
I would like the laser mechanics to be reworked especialy the lame skill bonuses. Is a laser OP? Yes it is to me.
the lazer is fine, where is the tac rifle?
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Daxos Cavaletto
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
74
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Posted - 2013.02.12 21:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:Free Beers wrote:A couple of facts to add doc
1 Laser has no recoil - AR does and also has build up recoil the longer you hold R1 2 Laser has 100% accuracy - AR has accuracy and bullet spread 3 Laser takes advantage of the broken damage mods (ccp always takes like 5 months to fix anything) 4 Lasers increase damage over time of holding R1 - AR has consistant damage (holding R1 just increases recoil) 5 Movement while firing a laser doesn't decrease its accuracy - Moving while using an AR decreases its accuracy and increaes bullet spread.
To add to the discussion
Laser has an optimal range with fall off on either side. It was never intended to be a close range weapon. Trying to say that its bad at close range so its already nerfed is lame. No on argues that snipers at close range are really hard to use so the damage/sway/ROF should be uber good.
Back to the damage mod issue. Lasers are like snipers as they are normally not in the direct line of fire. To be specific when on my laser alt I use an A series assualt with damage mods in highs and smg. I will use smg (notice i could give a **** that laser is weak up close) till i get to my spot and drop hives. Then switch to laser and melt face. Since I dont have to worry about moving around and engaging players in CQC I can always go gank fit suits. The amount of damage and accuracy a laser can do is devastating.
I have been on the other side of this last build. I was in fully buffed b series assualt suits with close to 760 ehp. I watch an imperfect alt with laser pick off 2 people and thought I could sneak out and take him down. I got a laser accross my head and was dead instantly. Whoops.
I would like the laser mechanics to be reworked especialy the lame skill bonuses. Is a laser OP? Yes it is to me. the lazer is fine, where is the tac rifle?
CCP fixed it already which is what I hope they DON'T do to lasers
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
373
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:I think the Laser Riffle is not seen as much because it is harder to learn to use it effectively than any other weapon.
- If you carefully line up a shot like you would with a sniper riffle you will do only a small amount of damage initially. If your target is not paying attention or if AFK and stays still long enough you will get the kill, but usually your target will start to run, and then you are left trying to hit a moving target before you overheat.
The best approach in theory is to start firing somewhere else and then swing your beam onto the target once you have heated up. However that is more easily said than done. Unless you have really good aim you are likely to overshoot your mark, slashing briefly across your target doing just enough damage to get your target running for cover. I had one guy conveniently run toward me and I swung my beam back and forth across him 5 times before he went down.
I get the impression while using the Laser Riffle that in the hands of a very skilled player this weapon could be deadly. In my hands... not so much.
- I have never run out of ammunition as much with any other weapon as I have with the Laser Riffle. Having a Nanohive is almost mandatory with that thing.
- Firing at someone just out of range is very frustrating. You line up the perfect shot, get your beam right on them, and do no damage what-so-ever.
- If someone gets close to you, you got to run like hell or switch to you SMG. The first few matches I did with a laser I spent a lot of time running.
- If someone uses cover and only exposes themselves long enough to fire a bursts at a time they will force me to let my Laser cool off each time so that I can only do my much reduced cold damage on them while they do full damage on me. (At least I know how to fight lasers now.)
The affect of Sharpshooter on minimum should be fixed, but otherwise I donGÇÖt think the laser riffle warrants either a buff nor a nerf. I still like my sniper riffle better, but running laser is an interesting challenge, and the chance of getting multiple kills if you find a group of reds huddled together is very appealing. I agree with you about the minimum range, its actually stopping me from levelling it up at this point and that puts me at a disadvantage. i agree with most of your other points as well, but in my experience shooting at someone with a LR is enough to make sure they stay in cover till my team mates flush them out |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
92
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Posted - 2013.02.13 00:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
you pulled a viziam out on me weeks ago and i was like "wtf is he doing with a viziam in a type II suit?"
plus 1 to this thread, nothing like good testing being done |
William HBonney
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
318
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 01:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Indeed, hard to run the viziam in a type 2. He must not be good up close. :) |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
165
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:As Beers said, the laser has INSANE damage once heated up. Supposedly, it's more effective against shields, not necessarily all that effective against armor. Problem is, that by the time you've easily gone through an opponents shields, the heat build-up is enough to EASILY melt their armor too. Even with an armor-tanked Heavy, you just have to spend a few tenths of a second pre-heating the laser and it melts armor effortlessly. Again, as Beers stated, lasers almost instantaneously melt through 7-800 HP.
I agree though, the nerf hammer would probably completely ruin this gun. My only suggestion would be to not change the laser, but change armor's resistance level to lasers. They need DOUBLE the resistance they currently have to lasers.
This would still allow laser user to almost instantly drop an opponents shields, but would require an extra second or so to take down armor. This would "balance" not only the weapon, but balance the issue with shields and armor as well. (as we all know, there is practically no reason to be armor-tanked in this game, right now it's all about shields) Giving armor more resistance would make armor-tanking a little more desirable since it would be you sturdy against lasers.
I agree that if they decide that the Laser Riffle needs a nerf, they should do it by buffing Armour resistance to the Laser. However I think doubling the resistance Armour has to the Laser would have a much greater effect than you suspect. Better to increase Armour resistance by 50% first and see how that pans out.
Also, if it is true that the Laser Riffle skill does not do anything, then perhaps the Laser should overhead more quickly if you have low skills, and get back to where it is now when you skill up. That would further reduce the number of casual users, and might reduce the complaining without ruining it for people who want to specialise in it. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
164
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 21:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Why is it that many people's answer to these things is to make niche weapons more inaccessible or even more useless? |
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Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 10:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Much like what the Sniper, Laser, Mass Driver, and Assault Rifle can do to the HMG, Scrambler, SMG, Shotgun, and Nova Knife. Well actually everything outranges the Nova Knife. LOL
If you want to be kind of dumb and oversimplify things, then sure, every weapon in the game is equal and CCP has achieved perfect balance except for the nova knife, el oh el. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
164
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 19:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Much like what the Sniper, Laser, Mass Driver, and Assault Rifle can do to the HMG, Scrambler, SMG, Shotgun, and Nova Knife. Well actually everything outranges the Nova Knife. LOL If you want to be kind of dumb and oversimplify things, then sure, every weapon in the game is equal and CCP has achieved perfect balance except for the nova knife, el oh el.
Over simplifying things would be making it so that the person who won was the first person to pull the trigger and keep their weapon on target regardless of weapon and dropsuit. There are other games that do that. |
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