your logic is no match for the emotional dispositions of the non-experts

Yea...getting my white flag now.

Laser rifle is OP

We do need to test the damage and rate of increase.

All laser rifles have the same range. The only way to change the range is with sharpshooter. This is the same for the AR. Basic and miltia have the same range so we speculate that all meta levels have the same range.

All stats are +- 1m with sharpshooter skill of 0 so no bonus range is applied.
Laser Rifle
Max Range: 81m
Optimal Range: 61 - 78m
Meta Level: 1

Elm-7 Laser Rifle
Max Range: 84m
Optimal Range: 62 - 79m
Meta Level: 4

Viziam Laser Rifle
Max Range: 84m
Optimal Range: 62 - 79m
Meta Level: 8

TL:DR
Lasers are broke and when numbers are put side by side with the AR...AR dominates. In fact they are close to area of effect opposites. But the AR doesn't get punished for an upgrade in sharpshooter and has a much greater area of effect. As well the AR gets damage buffs in proficiency.
I will concede the build up damage the laser has is very hard to measure and gauge. But no one takes in account of how quickly an AR slaughters a target when they don't "get out of the line of fire"...or of the "laser beam".

Thanks to William HBonney for the testing time and math. Thanks for all other players trying to bring attention to this erroneous weapon.

Only way I could think of doing this would be to use a shield tank and different lengths of firing time to try to approximate the relative increase in dmg for the duration of firing.

It's an interesting observation, but the argument that the AR is actually MORE effective in the laser's optimal range includes more variables than pure damage.

Assault rifles might have the POTENTIAL to do a little bit more damage at laser distances than lasers do at AR distances, but there are critical differences. One mentioned was the damage buildup effect, which is really significant. The other, more readily recognizable variable, is the amount of recoil. Even though the AR might technically "do" a particular amount of damage at range, the farther out from optimal you go with an AR the less the base damage statistic actually reflects the output in a real life scenario. Recoil throws off your aim relative to a target's distance, so at laser ranges every player will suffer an additional number of missed bullets while using an AR, purely because of recoil.



This is pretty much the "problem" with lasers rifles right now. They fill their niche really nicely, which is great! But the lack of recoil and the absurdly long heat build up time (it goes up to more than 10 seconds, folks) allows laser a huge window of time in which they can miss, and miss, and miss while still managing to kill a target. No other gun has this luxury; you're going to have to curb your fire rate by burst firing in order to bring recoil down on any other weapon.

P.S.: Yes, except for HMG's. They're a bit of an oddity, but they also have a heat buildup mechanic to emulate recoil. It's also not that great at it.

Recoil definitely isn't something that lasers need, but the heat buildup time could stand some tweaking to actually more faithfully emulate the issues that every other gunner in the game faces.



This sharpshooter thing could definitely be rectified though, along with a fix to heat buildup time.

You open this thread with the promise of facts and then jump straight into speculation... which the testing done by Musta Tornius would suggest to be incorrect.



Check the link to see that the ranges on ARs differ as well.

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusions... but I'm curious which of the claims regarding the laser range is correct.

A couple of facts to add doc

1 Laser has no recoil - AR does and also has build up recoil the longer you hold R1
2 Laser has 100% accuracy - AR has accuracy and bullet spread
3 Laser takes advantage of the broken damage mods (ccp always takes like 5 months to fix anything)
4 Lasers increase damage over time of holding R1 - AR has consistant damage (holding R1 just increases recoil)
5 Movement while firing a laser doesn't decrease its accuracy - Moving while using an AR decreases its accuracy and increaes bullet spread.

To add to the discussion

Laser has an optimal range with fall off on either side. It was never intended to be a close range weapon. Trying to say that its bad at close range so its already nerfed is lame. No on argues that snipers at close range are really hard to use so the damage/sway/ROF should be uber good.

Back to the damage mod issue. Lasers are like snipers as they are normally not in the direct line of fire. To be specific when on my laser alt I use an A series assualt with damage mods in highs and smg. I will use smg (notice i could give a **** that laser is weak up close) till i get to my spot and drop hives. Then switch to laser and melt face. Since I dont have to worry about moving around and engaging players in CQC I can always go gank fit suits. The amount of damage and accuracy a laser can do is devastating.

I have been on the other side of this last build. I was in fully buffed b series assualt suits with close to 760 ehp. I watch an imperfect alt with laser pick off 2 people and thought I could sneak out and take him down. I got a laser accross my head and was dead instantly. Whoops.

I would like the laser mechanics to be reworked especialy the lame skill bonuses. Is a laser OP? Yes it is to me.

I did not see this thread... I wish I did. Our numbers are the same for lasers. I did not test the AR on the high end because I have not skilled into them that high. It very well could be that the Duvoulle will have a 4 meter buff. I can check against the Gek now. Once again thanks to everyone who is trying to show the laser's handicap.

TL:DR
Lasers are broke and when numbers are put side by side with the AR...AR dominates. In fact they are close to area of effect opposites. But the AR doesn't get punished for an upgrade in sharpshooter and has a much greater area of effect. As well the AR gets damage buffs in proficiency.
Thanks for all other players trying to bring attention to this erroneous weapon.

i skimmed over most other people's posts so this may have been asked alread; but judging from your first post, you sound really PRO-AR.. and if that's the case, why do you use the LR in pub matches? -a weapon you say is so erroneous. (i've played against you and a squad of other imps several times before) just curious. if i knew a weapon was flawed so hard, i wouldn't continue to use it.


edit; i guess you've probably skilled into LR and are waiting for CCP to fix it?

Green Living states it well... not OP from the conclusion it is not in heavy use.

If war were arithmetic, the mathematicians would rule the world.

The reason the LR is so good is because it does huge damage at ranges the AR struggles to do damage at. It's also far easier to aim than an AR, both due to the zoom, and due to it having no kick/dispersion, which further moves the balance in its favour. The reality of the situation is that, when someone who knows how to use a LR gets to using one, he can kill an AR user in seconds without any serious threat to himself.

Green Living states it well... not OP from the conclusion it is not in heavy use.

If war were arithmetic, the mathematicians would rule the world.

The reason the LR is so good is because it does huge damage at ranges the AR struggles to do damage at. It's also far easier to aim than an AR, both due to the zoom, and due to it having no kick/dispersion, which further moves the balance in its favour. The reality of the situation is that, when someone who knows how to use a LR gets to using one, he can kill an AR user in seconds without any serious threat to himself.



It isn't in heavy use because it's situational. You can't use it effectively at close ranges, which limits your ability to fight in certain areas. It absolutely destroys people in the areas it's useful in, but kinda sucks if you're running around amidst buildings or rough terrain or whatever. Most people clearly prefer to use the AR, as it's a gun that is useful pretty much all the time. Doesn't mean it's balanced, just means that the still very respectable power of ARs and their versatility is more attractive than the higher power but less versatility of LRs.