DUST Search - [Request/Feedback] Yanno what, let's fix ALL the guns

Atlas Exenthal wrote:

Jotun Hiem wrote:

Atlas Exenthal wrote:

Breach Rifle is fine.
The range/mag size of the standard ARs is what needs to be looked at.

I don't suppose you could elaborate? I don't understand what's wrong with the range and magazine size currently.

I said this in the GEK thread;

Quote:

I wouldn't say the gun is *overpowered* in a traditional sense.
I'd say it's a real shame that the generic staple of shooters (the assault rifle) is arguably the best weapon for the job.

- They have no penalizing drawbacks
- Theyre effective range overlaps lasers pretty hard
- Theyre pretty good from the hip during CQB
- They have relatively low fitting requirements
- Theyre extremely accurate at long range
- They have no penalizing drawbacks (ie: death by overheating)

I see a couple options that I would see as a fair change of pace.
1. Reduce their range to somewhere around the Breach Rifle, leaving the Tactical & Burst Variants as longer range types.
2. Reduce the magazine size of the base-line ARs

Those suggested changes could possibly differentiate the ARs a bit more, and perhaps folks would be less likely to rely on them as the default goto weapon. The Breach Rifle is less used because its range/rof is far inferior to the other ARs, and the *drawbacks* of the other ARs aren't great enough to make use of its low recoil and added damage.

Reduction of range/mag size would only be for the base ARs.
The Breach doesn't need more of a nerf, and the Burst does require a bit more finesse.
We all know the Tac needs less recoil

Since we've also got an issue with the ARs overlapping the range of Lasers, I feel that reducing the range slightly and/or shrinking their mag size would work better to balance the mid/long-range game.

Now it's entirely possible that the current maps' sizes and layouts are part of the problem and are hugely beneficial to ARs, but we don't really have much selection to go by.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:11:00 - [1] - Quote In alphabetical order. CCP YOU SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS. COMMUNITY YOU SHOULD BE CONTRIBUTING. Assault Rifle: Breach needs to be fixed by either increasing it's rate of fire or damage. Tactical needs to be fixed by reducing the recoil on the shots. Heavy Machine Gun: Not going to touch this one as there's already a pretty heated debate as to whether or not it's OP. Find one of those threads. Laser Rifle: Broken skills, neither actually apply to the weapon. Needs a greater range of difference between Standard/Advanced/Prototype besides heat reduction, which coincides with broken skills. Nova Knives: Still can't charge while sprinting, making them a circumstantial weapon. Melee should be diverted from using R3 to the R1 button when not held. Sniper Rifle: Again, not touching this one. Way too much back and forth going on with this weapon. Toss in your opinions.

CCP Eterne C C P C C P Alliance 761	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:46:00 - [2] - Quote We pay attention to all the posts in the Feedback/Requests forums.

G Torq ALTA B2O 88	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:14:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: We pay attention to all the posts in the Feedback/Requests forums. Obviously not, otherwise you'd have noticed another post specifically stating that people should not make lists, and pointed that out to/corrected the original poster.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:21:00 - [4] - Quote nova knifes should just replace the melee attack. take away the ultra damage they do and the charge attack and just replace the stupid elbow to the face attack as a superior melee attack.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.07 11:06:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: We pay attention to all the posts in the Feedback/Requests forums. And where, pray tell, are the fixes (or even a hint that they're being fixed) for the Laser Rifle skills???
Geth Massredux ZionTCD Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2013.02.07 11:49:00 - [6] - Quote Why are you idiots being so hostile towards ccp members, chill the **** out. Your lucky to actually be in the beta. They could've just released the game without a beta around the end of 2013 going into 2014.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2013.02.07 11:57:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: We pay attention to all the posts in the Feedback/Requests forums. If that's true then what is the general opinion among ye of this thread. Laser Rifles: Complaints of broken skill features https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=54264&find=unread
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.08 06:04:00 - [8] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: Why are you idiots being so hostile towards ccp members, chill the ** out. Your lucky to actually be in the beta. They could've just released the game without a beta around the end of 2013 going into 2014. Because there's a lot of ** that's broken and even more that they said that would be done (devblogs, specifically) but never actually was implemented. They're repeating every mistake that CCP Eve Online's development team did before the Jita Riots. If they DID release it without a beta, it's very likely that Heavies/Scouts would actually be properly balanced as well as a multitude of currently under utilized weapons. They nerfed things way too early and way too much; rather than taking it slow and carving the fat off with a scalpel they took a hatchet to everything. Now we're left with this generic match-maker FPS with the added detriment of having to rebuy all of the things you lose. It's Battlefield 3 with a non-player influenced Economy. A LOT of people are unsatisfied with the current outlook for Dust 514 and it's in OPEN BETA. We've still got a LONG way to go before this game is everything that we expected it to be, much less everything we want it to be.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 433	Posted - 2013.02.08 06:16:00 - [9] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=514547#post514547 Swarm Launcher Skill Doesn't Make Sense Also, don't direct hate towards CCP. Hate is destructive, we want constructive. We can redirect where the stream goes, but beating the stream with sticks won't change its direction. You have to build a levy.
Atlas Exenthal mnemonic. 30	Posted - 2013.02.08 06:35:00 - [10] - Quote Breach Rifle is fine. The range/mag size of the standard ARs is what needs to be looked at.

Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 413	Posted - 2013.02.08 07:03:00 - [11] - Quote Atlas Exenthal wrote: Breach Rifle is fine. The range/mag size of the standard ARs is what needs to be looked at. I don't suppose you could elaborate? I don't understand what's wrong with the range and magazine size currently.
Arron Rift Commando Perkone Caldari State 73	Posted - 2013.02.08 07:05:00 - [12] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: Why are you idiots being so hostile towards ccp members, chill the **** out. Your lucky to actually be in the beta. They could've just released the game without a beta around the end of 2013 going into 2014. Amen
Atlas Exenthal mnemonic. 30	Posted - 2013.02.08 07:48:00 - [13] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: Atlas Exenthal wrote: Breach Rifle is fine. The range/mag size of the standard ARs is what needs to be looked at. I don't suppose you could elaborate? I don't understand what's wrong with the range and magazine size currently. I said this in the GEK thread; Quote: I wouldn't say the gun is overpowered in a traditional sense. I'd say it's a real shame that the generic staple of shooters (the assault rifle) is arguably the best weapon for the job. - They have no penalizing drawbacks - Theyre effective range overlaps lasers pretty hard - Theyre pretty good from the hip during CQB - They have relatively low fitting requirements - Theyre extremely accurate at long range - They have no penalizing drawbacks (ie: death by overheating) I see a couple options that I would see as a fair change of pace. 1. Reduce their range to somewhere around the Breach Rifle, leaving the Tactical & Burst Variants as longer range types. 2. Reduce the magazine size of the base-line ARs Those suggested changes could possibly differentiate the ARs a bit more, and perhaps folks would be less likely to rely on them as the default goto weapon. The Breach Rifle is less used because its range/rof is far inferior to the other ARs, and the drawbacks of the other ARs aren't great enough to make use of its low recoil and added damage. Reduction of range/mag size would only be for the base ARs. The Breach doesn't need more of a nerf, and the Burst does require a bit more finesse. We all know the Tac needs less recoil Since we've also got an issue with the ARs overlapping the range of Lasers, I feel that reducing the range slightly and/or shrinking their mag size would work better to balance the mid/long-range game. Now it's entirely possible that the current maps' sizes and layouts are part of the problem and are hugely beneficial to ARs, but we don't really have much selection to go by.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2013.02.08 09:47:00 - [14] - Quote the laser and ar range overlap issue would be better fixed by upping laser range. Maybe keep the peak damage were it is and add a range with decreasing damage beyond it. Laser rifle skills, tiers would be fine if mechanics are fixed. Just needs overheat bugs fixed. Maybe enlarge clip at higher meta levels, so they still could be overheated.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.02.08 10:05:00 - [15] - Quote Atlas Exenthal wrote: Jotun Hiem wrote: Atlas Exenthal wrote: Breach Rifle is fine. The range/mag size of the standard ARs is what needs to be looked at. I don't suppose you could elaborate? I don't understand what's wrong with the range and magazine size currently. I said this in the GEK thread; Quote: I wouldn't say the gun is overpowered in a traditional sense. I'd say it's a real shame that the generic staple of shooters (the assault rifle) is arguably the best weapon for the job. - They have no penalizing drawbacks - Theyre effective range overlaps lasers pretty hard - Theyre pretty good from the hip during CQB - They have relatively low fitting requirements - Theyre extremely accurate at long range - They have no penalizing drawbacks (ie: death by overheating) I see a couple options that I would see as a fair change of pace. 1. Reduce their range to somewhere around the Breach Rifle, leaving the Tactical & Burst Variants as longer range types. 2. Reduce the magazine size of the base-line ARs Those suggested changes could possibly differentiate the ARs a bit more, and perhaps folks would be less likely to rely on them as the default goto weapon. The Breach Rifle is less used because its range/rof is far inferior to the other ARs, and the drawbacks of the other ARs aren't great enough to make use of its low recoil and added damage. Reduction of range/mag size would only be for the base ARs. The Breach doesn't need more of a nerf, and the Burst does require a bit more finesse. We all know the Tac needs less recoil Since we've also got an issue with the ARs overlapping the range of Lasers, I feel that reducing the range slightly and/or shrinking their mag size would work better to balance the mid/long-range game. Now it's entirely possible that the current maps' sizes and layouts are part of the problem and are hugely beneficial to ARs, but we don't really have much selection to go by. I hope you aint serious. AR are versatile but way less efficient than any niche weapon used in the right conditions. I suspect you dont play much corp battles........ Nobody should be allowed to say anything about weapon balance without having experience of those games. - No penalizing drawbacks ? well duh, they're rifles. - Overlapping distance of lasers ? Absolutely irrelevant. At 78m an AR barely scratches the ennemy. What matters is the optimal range which is way shorter than laser's one. Duvolle Assault Rifle Max Range: 87m Optimal Range: 1 - 39m Meta Level: 8 Viziam Laser Rifle Max Range: 84m Optimal Range: 62 - 79m Meta Level: 8 - Good hip fire at CQC. I could agree with you there. But there are so many weapons that are way better (even my basic SMG rules out an AR dude, and SG or HMG i wont even mention). An AR is VERSATILE. that's the main thing about it. - Low fitting requirement. Hmm compared to what exactly ? Laser rifle dont use any PG if i remember correctly when a proto AR will take out 11 PG and 90 CPU and an advanced will take 47 CPU et 6 PG. And that's low ? not imo - Too Accurate at long range ? As long as you're in the weapons range, why should it be inaccurate ? And what do you call long range exactly ? Reducing clip size or range like you suggest are among the worst idea i ever heard. Funny you dont mention anything about HMG range that overlaps AR's optimal range and has pretty much the same max range as a viziam. Assault Heavy Machine Gun Max Range: 80m Optimal Range: 1 - 49m Meta Level: 2 And clip size, if you take it lower than 60 bullets, how many will be left in the breach AR ? 20 ? And the militia ones ? 30 ? Let's be serious.... People ***** about AR coz they get killed by them all the time. But they just dont understand it's because there are 10 guys with an AR for any other guy with a different weapon. Play corp games and you'll see AR will be the least of your worries.
Atlas Exenthal mnemonic. 30	Posted - 2013.02.08 12:03:00 - [16] - Quote First things first, I said I was referring to the base ARs, not the variants. Meaning the Breach wouldn't be nerfed again. As far as close quarters go, anyone who can aim with an AR will take down an SMG. Shotguns don't even compare since they're extremely limited in range, and people aren't getting picked off by half a map (lol bfbc2) The overlapping distances is extremely relevant. If the size/composition of maps we are currently getting is all we should come to expect, then AR are at an extreme advantage. Yes lasers have more range overall, but currently they can't be used anywhere near as effectively at the ranges we have to work with. I don't think lasers need a boost because (skill errors aside) they're pretty great. Comparing AR to a HMG isn't a fair comparison either. HMG are limited to slow brutes that are easily cut down by anything beyond 20m. The HMG May have range on paper, but the damage falloff is sharp, and accuracy is spotty at best. AR are accurate across the board.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.02.08 12:22:00 - [17] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Eterne wrote: We pay attention to all the posts in the Feedback/Requests forums. And where, pray tell, are the fixes (or even a hint that they're being fixed) for the Laser Rifle skills??? They never said they would do what You wanted. He only said they pay attention to the posts. You might need to pay better attention yourself it would appear. It is possible that Aeon's Most Important Things In DUST List does not match CCPs list. You know, those who are paying the bills. Now, go press your Internet Screaming Key about some other entitlement and let us get on with Beta testing DUST.


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