|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 04:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Covert Clay wrote:pegasis prime wrote:Alright l thought I would help this thread out and give a good starting point for some of the aspiring tankers. I personally think there are two classes best suited to tanking - logi and heavy , simply because of the required skills in defence and tbh being a tanker is just as much about staying alive as it is dishing out damage. Most aspiring tankers wont have the skills to go above malitia tanks for a while but thats ok everyone starts somewere . So I thought id put up a list of mods that will seriously help the new tankers stay alive during battle
FOR THE SOMA Heavy ig polerized armour repair 180mm steal plates 1 power diognostic system 1 power expansion unit 1 light clarity shield repair And one periferal damage contoll system This is with a 80gj blaster turret also applies when fitting the rail turret .
FOR THE SICA 2 power diognostic systems 1 heavy shield extender 1 supplamental shield extender And 1 light clarity ward shield booster This applyscto fitting rail turrets when fitting the blaster replace one of the power diognostic units for a power expansion unit and the heavy shield for the heavy suplamental shield booster and swap the light clarity ward shield booster for the heavy clarity ward shield booster
I hope these loadout guidlines help the aspiring tanker as I said staying alive is just as important as getting the kills especially in your early tanking days . So your saying if you have the blaster equiped on the sica that you need 2 shield boosters and 1shield extender? Why 2 shield boosters? No you don't, but its important to have at least 1 shield booster in case your shields go down, having a blaster as a main cannon affects nothing but the damage given and the cpu/pg used. However you must have a shield extendor on your tank to give it more of a 1st layer of defense against attacks.
I would have to agree on the extender. Shield Boosters are not nearly as effective as Armour Repairers and you need to rely on taking damage over a longer period of time. Having that health buffer helps to survive that first wave of attacks and will give your booster more time to work. As for weapon choice, it's simply based on range. Railguns and Blasters do the same damage type so it's simply up to how close or far you wish to be. |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 18:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Covert Clay wrote:Void Echo wrote:Response to Covert Clay
Remove the small shield booster since you have a heavy shield booster already installed. Remove the missle turrets completely, so far due to their complete lack of accuracy since the winter updates, they are completely useless. Skill up in small blasters and railguns as your secondary turrets.
Replace the small shield booster with a shield resistance amplifier, another shield extender OR a shield hardener.
Skill up in small blaster turrets to level 4, then youl be able to upgrade to large blaster turret level 1 and have a better blaster as a main cannon.
Also skill up in vehicle command level 5 then go for Caldari or Gallente HAV level 1, militia tanks may be cheap and easy to replace, but there is a reason they are not standard issue. Go for the Gunnlogi or Madrugar as a first official tank. Thanks for getting back to me man. Right now I changed the small shield booster to a small shield extender. (I forgot the name) I believe it is the shield extender that takes 64 PG. I'm wondering if I should replace the small shield extender for one of the things you listed and get the extra PG back for the small turrets you suggested. I have about 200k SP right now. should I spend that towards a better cannon or a better tank first. Thanks again man
Assuming you have maxed circuitry and engineering because those are vital to fitting better modules, you should work on skills for those better modules. A properly skilled and fit soma or sica can be far more deadly then a gunloggi or madragaur with modules and turrets which are below grade. And with many modules such as armour plates and shield extenders for vehicles, the top tier module uses less fitting resources but provides a greater benefit. Turrets though will use more so plan your fits accordingly.
A common misconception is that you need to have a higher grade tank to do well when in fact it's more about the modules. I would focus on getting a good tank fitting scheme before dropping an easy 300k+ on a moderately fit tank. Also your support skills make a big difference such as field mechanics, shield control, shield boost systems and so on. |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 02:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Covert Clay wrote:Void Echo wrote:Covert Clay wrote:Alright thanks for the info guys . So based on what you said, i should spend all my SP on getting a better tank and then focus on turrets. When I do unlock the the gunnlogi/Madrugar. which 1 should I use and what types of moduels should I use as well. I'm pretty sure alot of people out there are wondering the same thing. Unlock either or, the only difference is that Claldari focus on shielding while Gallente focus on armor. When I had a madrugar before the reset, I had 9000 armor. Now I have a Gunnlogi with 6000 shields. It just depends on what type you want, shield railgun, shield blaster, shield missle or armor railgun, armor blaster or armor missle. Awesome, I guess I'll go with the gunnlogi because I already spent allot of SP on shielding. And I saw that shield hardeners decreased damage done to shields by like 30% isn't that equivalent to getting a shield extender that increases your shields by 30%?
Please forgive me Void but what I just added is very relevent here.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=56649&find=unread
What you'll want to see is in Chapter 3.
I just started to add module information for HAVs. You'll find that Shield Hardeners are very difficult to use on shield tanks. Mostly because they are only active for a very short period of time and the long cooldown means you'll be vulnerable for a much longer period of time. Plus if you're caught off guard you'll drop like a rock.
If you want to go shield hardeners, be very aware of thier weaknesses and plan accordingly.
EDIT: Also it's not entirely equivelant to getting just more shields. The problem of getting more shields is repairing any damage you take. So while you'll have this massive HP buffer, once you take heavy damage and retreat, you'll be down for an extended period of time trying to recover. Resistances increase your effective HP but do not increase your actual health. This means that any repairing and shield recharge will be even more effective because you're repairing the same amount of health but taking less damage, thus repairing more effective HP.
EDIT 2: In summery, getting more resistance is better but you need to combine that with more health for optimal effectiveness. Effective HP (EHP) is the true measure of how much damage you can really take. |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 12:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Covert Clay wrote:Void Echo wrote:Covert Clay wrote:Alright thanks for the info guys . So based on what you said, i should spend all my SP on getting a better tank and then focus on turrets. When I do unlock the the gunnlogi/Madrugar. which 1 should I use and what types of moduels should I use as well. I'm pretty sure alot of people out there are wondering the same thing. Unlock either or, the only difference is that Claldari focus on shielding while Gallente focus on armor. When I had a madrugar before the reset, I had 9000 armor. Now I have a Gunnlogi with 6000 shields. It just depends on what type you want, shield railgun, shield blaster, shield missle or armor railgun, armor blaster or armor missle. I would be very interested in exactly what types of modules you used to get your gunnlogi up to 6k shields. One thing I noticed is that the gunnlogi doesn't offer any more max PG than the Sica offers. Why is the gunnlogi so much better? By the way man, keep up the good work!
It's not. Atleast not by wide sweeping margins. I've taken down plenty a Gunloggi and Madragaur with Somas and Sicas.
The devil is in the details. It's a habit from EVE but small changes are what make big differances. Between the 2 tanks, the Gunloggi gets 2 more mid slots, more CPU, and a higher base shields. This helps in several ways as Shield Control only effects base shield health so you get more out of it. The more mid slots and CPU allow better shield tanks since shield tanking modules require a lot of CPU useage. So the end result is a tougher (or more flexable depending on fit) tank.
As for getting the Gunloggi to 6k shields? That's easy to do. I've seen higher then that. Really it comes down to Shield Control skills and Shield Extenders. I'm not going to give away all my fitting secrets but if you manage your PG/CPU well and have a set fitting goal in mind it's possible. For the record I have a Sica that is over 6k shields :P
Just be sure to match Defence with Offence. You don't want to go in being a super tough tank and realize you died simply because the other tank can just output a ton of damage. I'm not going to say how but much later on you'll see Railguns doing over 2000 per shot so defences won't last forever. |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 10:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Covert Clay wrote:Tac Com wrote:Covert Clay wrote:Void Echo wrote:Covert Clay wrote:Alright thanks for the info guys . So based on what you said, i should spend all my SP on getting a better tank and then focus on turrets. When I do unlock the the gunnlogi/Madrugar. which 1 should I use and what types of moduels should I use as well. I'm pretty sure alot of people out there are wondering the same thing. Unlock either or, the only difference is that Claldari focus on shielding while Gallente focus on armor. When I had a madrugar before the reset, I had 9000 armor. Now I have a Gunnlogi with 6000 shields. It just depends on what type you want, shield railgun, shield blaster, shield missle or armor railgun, armor blaster or armor missle. I would be very interested in exactly what types of modules you used to get your gunnlogi up to 6k shields. One thing I noticed is that the gunnlogi doesn't offer any more max PG than the Sica offers. Why is the gunnlogi so much better? By the way man, keep up the good work! It's not. Atleast not by wide sweeping margins. I've taken down plenty a Gunloggi and Madragaur with Somas and Sicas. The devil is in the details. It's a habit from EVE but small changes are what make big differances. Between the 2 tanks, the Gunloggi gets 2 more mid slots, more CPU, and a higher base shields. This helps in several ways as Shield Control only effects base shield health so you get more out of it. The more mid slots and CPU allow better shield tanks since shield tanking modules require a lot of CPU useage. So the end result is a tougher (or more flexable depending on fit) tank. As for getting the Gunloggi to 6k shields? That's easy to do. I've seen higher then that. Really it comes down to Shield Control skills and Shield Extenders. I'm not going to give away all my fitting secrets but if you manage your PG/CPU well and have a set fitting goal in mind it's possible. For the record I have a Sica that is over 6k shields :P Just be sure to match Defence with Offence. You don't want to go in being a super tough tank and realize you died simply because the other tank can just output a ton of damage. I'm not going to say how but much later on you'll see Railguns doing over 2000 per shot so defences won't last forever. That's the thing. I can only get my Sica to 4k shield because of the PG cap and the fact that I don't have my skills maxed in (whatever gives more max PG to vehicles). I only have a limited amount of SP too so its hard to decide between maxing those skills, investing SP into skills to get a better tank, investing SP into skills for shield resisters, or investing SP into getting a better blaster. SP is tight right now, only got about 225k and there are so many angles and routes to decide from.
I had a really well explained post detailing everything but it didn't post and the draft didn't save... Oh well.
Combat Engineering is what gets you more PG and make sure that's at 5, same with Circuitry. You can get away with lower levels on dropsuits but for tanks, make sure that's at 5.
As for the tank, a Gunloggi won't solve your problem. Since it only gives more CPU, it will cause you even more headache because you'll have more slots and it will still be hard to fit. Focus on getting those 2 skills mentioned to 5.
As for getting a Sica to over 6k shields, it's quite doable but requires a tight fit and maxing those 2 skills. I have Shield Control lvl 3 so that is probably what is just getting me over 6k since I have 6099 on this Sica but it's very much doable. Even if you use twin militia Heavy Extenders then you'll still get almost 5k
Here is the fitting just to give you an example. But remember this fitting does not work without Circuitry and Engineering at 5. (Ok, maybe not Circuitry, the CPU is alright, but get it anyways since the Soma/Madragaur is tight on CPU and the Sica/Gunloggi like more CPU for better shield mods)
Sica Heavy Duty:
Weapons: 80GJ Railgun 2x 20GJ Blaster
High Slot: 2x Heavy Shield Extender 1 Any Shield Resistance Amp (currently I'm using Militia to keep costs down and since I don't have Shield Adaptation to 3 yet)
Low Slot: Powergrid Expansion I (Whatever you want, I'd recommend a damage mod, heat sink, or torque mod but feel free to experiment)
This is meant to hit hard and take hits. Mind you though this fitting will still set you back a pretty penny due to the Shield Extenders costing so much. Often I find myself taking my cheaper, militia fit Sica since if I loose it I can still profit from the game. :P |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 06:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Harv Arkham wrote:yay more advice \o/ keep it coming ;) yep i found the approach for me is to get the best dang modules i can get to stick on my sica, that way i can beat all the other militia tankers who put minimal stuff on to thier tanks, whilehave a fair shot at the standard tanks.
That's usually the way to go. And after you get wicked modules, you can then migrate to a better tank and you'll have an edge on those better tanks with your upgraded modules. Plus by then you'll have gotten used to how to use and fit those tanks so it works out well. |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 04:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
DigiOps wrote:While a blaster for my main weapon would be the way I'd go, are railguns for my gunners viable options for long range AV?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: No because the range on small railguns isn't that much better then a stabilized blaster and it still isn't that much of a heavy hitter. The small railguns do well vs LAVs but more often then not most people will do better with a blaster turret.
What I do like the small railgun for though is light AV. With a good gunner that small railgun can do a ton of damage to smaller vehicles and aid fairly well in larger battles but it would not be a replacement for your large turret. If I'm in a blaster tank I'd likely do with blasters but in a railgun tank I might put one blaster and 1 railgun as the small railgun's better tracking can better deal with smaller targets over the main gun. Often though a single gunner can handle both turrets on such a vehicle.
So really, when using a blaster tank, don't expect your small railguns to make up any range disadvantage vs another tank. Your main gun is really what you need to take a vehicle down. If you find yourself up against a rail tank at range, then try and move between cover and avoid it's fire until you can get close enough to put down effective fire.
DigiOps wrote:If I hadn't recently shaved, I'd be stroking my beard. Since the battlefield is far from static, how do you tank drivers handle different situations? I'm sure there wouldn't be much point in keeping different fittings for different situations since you can't change your loadout once you call your tank (unless it gets popped, anyway).
As for the changing situations, you're right, you don't call in new tanks for each one, but often if you're in a poor situation you'll loose your tank and can then change up accordingly. If the situation isn't bad enough then you'll probably not loose your vehicle. For example if the enemy starts to deploy a lot of AV against you, yes you will no longer be as effective but thier concentration is on you and usually it's more then 1 soldier. This can leave them open to your own infantry to effectively deal with them. Sometimes staying alive even when not fighting at full effectiveness can still aid your team by keeping thier attention on AV. Just don't hide all game doing nothing, you still need to seem like a threat.
Usually what I like to do is keep cheap militia fit tanks to lure out the enemy to use AV or tanks, and if they manage to take me out I'll take out something more specialized to respond to what they are fielding. That or I'll fight it out on foot for a time and get a read before fielding my tank. |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 20:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Covert Clay wrote:0 Try Harder wrote:I believe armor is better for anti-infantry because it is PG heavy. It is also able to repair its armor much faster than a shield tank can rep its shield. Armor tanks also have better damage reduction mods and great low slots, which allow you to have more EHP than a shield tank.
PG is good for an AI tank because blaster is much better than a railgun for mowing down enemy infantry. Blaster uses more PG and less CPU. Railguns use more CPU and have less PG. If you want to AI on a shield tank, you'll have some serious PG problems if you want to keep your tank alive. Again, the slow shield recharge will not allow you to tank enemy AV. You'll have to use the shield booster twice times to recharge your shields from even 50% to full.
edit: I wouldn't start over if you put points into shield. Eventually (if you're going all tank) you'll probably want to have the option of going shield tank too. You can't have spent too many points on shield tanks alone because armor tanks use shields too. I'm 100% shield tank atm, but once I finish my shield tank I'm getting my armor tanking skills up.
I think I'm the loudest proponent of specialization on these forums lol. I see tanking as a specialization in itself. Turrets are one of the most important things to a tank, and fortunately blaster and railguns are both hybrid and require the same skills to level up. The amount of points you spend on shields or armor can easily be done in a few weeks at most. If you started with the arbiter class it's much easier to go from shield tank to armor than it is to go from armor to shield. Armor skills don't have the expensive prerequisites that the shields do. It's just one more reason why the arbiter class is pretty much the best class for almost every role. Thanks man. Well since I just started playing this game like 2 or 3 weeks ago and I've never played eve before so just went with the Amarr bloodline and enforcer class. So different classes do influence more than I thought. I'll have to look into that. Do you think its worth making a whole new character just to get the advantages of the arbitor class? I meen, you can't switch classes, can you? Sorry for so many questions, I'm such a noob
There is no point choosing a new class or bloodline. It has no effect other then starting skills and since you're 2-3 weeks in, you'll just be farther behind. There is a saying in EVE that "no skill goes wasted" to mean as things change with patches what is best will change. One day it's shields, next day it's armour.
You are better off just skilling into the stuff you need now rather then restarting since you'll have skills now that can still be useful rather then have to get them again. You also have to remember there is no limit on the SP your character can have. So eventually you could get everything. (But new content usually prevents that as there is always something new to skill into :D) |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
41
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 21:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Covert Clay wrote:Tac Com wrote:Covert Clay wrote:[quote=0 Try Harder] Thanks man. Well since I just started playing this game like 2 or 3 weeks ago and I've never played eve before so just went with the Amarr bloodline and enforcer class. So different classes do influence more than I thought. I'll have to look into that. Do you think its worth making a whole new character just to get the advantages of the arbitor class? I meen, you can't switch classes, can you? Sorry for so many questions, I'm such a noob There is no point choosing a new class or bloodline. It has no effect other then starting skills and since you're 2-3 weeks in, you'll just be farther behind. There is a saying in EVE that "no skill goes wasted" to mean as things change with patches what is best will change. One day it's shields, next day it's armour. You are better off just skilling into the stuff you need now rather then restarting since you'll have skills now that can still be useful rather then have to get them again. You also have to remember there is no limit on the SP your character can have. So eventually you could get everything. (But new content usually prevents that as there is always something new to skill into :D) Haha ok. Thanks man for the advice I'll look into armor tanks and see if I can throw a few SP that way and experiment. I guess it just comes down to personnel preference at this point. That being said, almost every game,e comes down to personnel preference at some point and time. The only real way to find out what's "best" is to experiment. Thanks everyone for your help
Absolutely. That's the attitude to have :D
Send me a mail in game. We should have a few games together :)
But really it doesn't take much SP to get into armour tanking. Field mechanics to 5, repair systems and armour upgrades to 3, and adaptation to 1 for starters gets you everything you need to build a good, strong armour tank. Even just getting lvl 4 mechanics and 1 in each is a good start to expand from. |
|
|
|