Not more milita stuff since milita stuff is as good as basic

Take the milita forge gun 1200 damage and can easily destroy a gunlogi because ive done it

Milita weapons basically stop players from skilling up into the proper varients because they are very good as they are, espc with AV no need to skill up past basic or if your super lazy stick with milita and just hammer away at it and you will get it anyways

I think this would defeat the purpose of buying guns. Maybe i would only like this idea if ccp added more guns that you need to buy with ISK and AUR. For example, they should start you out with the shotgun, and there are other shotguns ( pump action, fully atto) that you have to buyin the marketplace.

Let's see... so long as it's not BPO vehicles, I think we're OK. (man, the E3 build was a painful one balance-wise)

Also, the militia LR would have to overheat somewhat faster - otherwise the already-problematic QQ will be in biblical proportions, drowning anybody who stopped to get their tear vial out.

I lean towards a no, with the missile launcher, sniper, and AR all players start with, they can handle any threat including and up to tanks and dropships (that people buy for quite a pretty penny of isk)

millita gear should also be less effective than tech 1.

Being able to handle any threat is not the point of this request, please read the original post.

I still think all millita gear should not be free only the suits we have currently, pay to play, its still cheaper than stuff that actually requires SP investment, half price is good. You can experiment (but not keep forever) with just about anything with a portion of the proceeds of one match with free millita gear, or a fraction if you are using anything other than the dropships or HAV.

Actually no, militia weapons do generally have the same damage as standard, but they have higher fitting requirements, and frequently less ammo per magazine.
Militia laser rifles, mass drivers, etc could have smaller clip size, less total ammo, and higher fitting requirements (like all militia items) to motivate players to skill up to standard and above. If that isn't enough, being killed by advanced and prototype users will do the trick.
I don't see why its ok for some weapons to have militia variants while its not ok for others.

Players get militia ARs and SMGs, but you still see people running around with GEK ARs and Toxin SMGs.

Totally redone the original post

I don't know how good of an idea this is.

It's great that it benefits newbies and let's them understand the bearings and uses of suits.

But giving the newbies that much headway kind of obscures the point that they should use their own devices to discover what works because no one is exactly alike. The 4 basics are just the tips of the tree. Where on from then is up to the player.

Incorporating more branches to the tree at the very start may shorten the life of discovery is all that I'm saying.

You make a very good point, but I think its worth it; its just militia stuff after all, and those suits can't really fit much. There would still be a lot of opportunity for players to experiment with their fittings once they skill up to get higher tier suits with more slots and PG/CPU.

(before you reply back, yes I read the entire thread) This seems like a good idea on paper, but if you think about i, this idea starts to have problems. You see, this would mean if the bluedots figure out how to restock, they would never ave to change their kit out. They would just keep on restocking those kits, and never have to skill up. The only way to fix this is to nerf militia items, like how they nerfed militia vehicles (and just about every other part of the vehicles). They need to learn that it's a necessity to get out of militia stuff, otherwise the most used gun and kit will be the starter AR kit.

I'm not totally against this idea but think if something like this were implemented it would have to be limited in some more overarching manner - maybe you can only use militia gear (including BPOs) when below 1 million SP (or maybe higher, would need balancing). Or perhaps there could be special training zones for militia gear but can not be used in normal pub matches.

Actually no, militia weapons do generally have the same damage as standard, but they have higher fitting requirements, and frequently less ammo per magazine.
Militia laser rifles, mass drivers, etc could have smaller clip size, less total ammo, and higher fitting requirements (like all militia items) to motivate players to skill up to standard and above. If that isn't enough, being killed by advanced and prototype users will do the trick.
I don't see why its ok for some weapons to have militia variants while its not ok for others.

Players get militia ARs and SMGs, but you still see people running around with GEK ARs and Toxin SMGs.

It's also important not to forget skills, Yes militia weapons allow you to use the gear without skills, but they do not give the buffs provided by skills and things like higher accuracy, better RoF, more damage, better range, etc. should not be ignored.
Yes a player who's spec'ed their character into AV can use the militia Forge to take out an above militia vehicle chassis but that doesn't mean it was A) an above militia fitting (low meta mods on a mid meta frame still = a low meta fit) or that B) it was the weapon alone (AV player skill + AV character skills = greater impact than the gun alone).

This same reasoning applies across the boards, player skill, and character SP investment, as well as the other elements of the fitting (both that of the user and the target) all play a role, overlooking any aspect of the above doesn't provide for the proper context to evaluate what's occurring.

0.02 ISK
Cross

EDIT: Let's keep our terminology clear, Starter fits may function in a similar way to Militia BPOs but they are NOT the same item. Starter fits are provided to new players free of charge from CCP. Militia BPOs are purchased with AUR (i.e. use of real cash). Treating the two as if their identical is both inaccurate and problematic.

> assault - assault rifle + scrambler pistol + nanohive [20]
> assault - swarm launcher + flaylock pistol (SOONGäó) + stasis webifier (SOONGäó) [20]
> assault - laser rifle + flaylock pistol (SOONGäó) + active scanner (off market for fixing) [20]
> scout - shotgun + nova knives + drop uplink [20]
> scout - sniper rifle + scrambler pistol + nanohive [20]
> logistics - scrambler rifle (SOONGäó) + nanite injector + repair tool [20]
> logistics - mystery Caldari rifle (SOONGäó) + remote explosives + nanohive [20]
> logistics - mass driver + nanohive + nanite injector [20]
> Heavy - heavy machine gun + flaylock pistol (SOONGäó) [20]
> Heavy - forge gun + scrambler pistol [20]
> Heavy - plasma cannon (SOONGäó) + scrambler pistol [20]
> crusader (SOONGäó) - slots currently unknown [20]
> pilot (SOONGäó) - slots currently unknown [20]

Last thing we need is some troll running around in a heavy suit that costs 2000 isk with a HMG

redux of post looks phenomenal.

I agree that one starter fit should be unlimited.

I am not drawn to militia gear, personally and usually burn 140,000 ISK in a match due to people realizing that an MH-82 HMG is a dire thread that needs to be killed fast. but it's worth the cost because the advanced gear is just more awesome. throw in a logibro and you see exactly how powerful you can bee with a little SP gain and friends.

I also agree that there needs to be militia fits for everything.

And if you can kill a gunnlogi solo with a militia forge it means the gunnlogi was a trashfit or the pilot was a MORON.

More likely it means your target was softened up by other forge guns or swarms. if this is not the case, and you didn't die twenty times doing it means the gunnlogi was ********

(before you reply back, yes I read the entire thread) This seems like a good idea on paper, but if you think about i, this idea starts to have problems. You see, this would mean if the bluedots figure out how to restock, they would never ave to change their kit out. They would just keep on restocking those kits, and never have to skill up. The only way to fix this is to nerf militia items, like how they nerfed militia vehicles (and just about every other part of the vehicles). They need to learn that it's a necessity to get out of militia stuff, otherwise the most used gun and kit will be the starter AR kit.

No players should be given 100 of each weapon and drop suit in militia fits. preset so they can see how they are to be used. your idea is good but do not make it unlimited use

Limited starter fits should be expanded so that all dropsuits, equipment, and weapons are represented.

All starter fits besides the starter role fit should be made of a limited set of militia items, and should not be infinite. This will help teach players how items are lost in death, and the importance of restocking.

There needs to be militia variants for all weapon types. All dropsuit and weapon types need to be represented in limited (non-infinite) starter fits. Here is why.

People need to be able to test weapons with militia variants in order to make informed decisions as to whether or not to invest skill points into them. There are militia dropsuits for every type, but the selection of militia weapons is very small. The starter fit system can also be tweaked to allow for more variety of dropsuits and weapons to try out; this would make experience of more dropsuits and weapons much more accessible, and broaden the horizons of new players beyond the favored assault dropsuit + assault rifle combo. I will outline ways to implement this in a balanced way.

When players choose their starter role (Enforcer, Arbiter, Artificer, & Sentinel) they get only one free unlimited starter fit based on their chosen roles. This is the only thing that really needs to be unlimited.

All weapons need to have militia grade version. Militia infantry items can be double in price, or nerfed a bit if needed to balance this change.

All starter fits besides the starter role fit should be made of a limited set of militia items, and should not be infinite. This will help teach players how items are lost in death, and the importance of restocking.

Limited starter fits should be expanded so that all dropsuits, equipment, and weapons are represented. This would allow new players unfamiliar with the market to try out and understand the great variety that Dust has to offer from the very beginning. Here are some examples of what the expanded and more various finite militia starter fits could look like:

> assault - assault rifle + scrambler pistol + nanohive [20]
> assault - swarm launcher + flaylock pistol (SOONGäó) + stasis webifier (SOONGäó) [20]
> assault - laser rifle + flaylock pistol (SOONGäó) + active scanner (off market for fixing) [20]
> scout - shotgun + nova knives + drop uplink [20]
> scout - sniper rifle + scrambler pistol + nanohive [20]
> logistics - scrambler rifle (SOONGäó) + nanite injector + repair tool [20]
> logistics - mystery Caldari rifle (SOONGäó) + remote explosives + nanohive [20]
> logistics - mass driver + nanohive + nanite injector [20]
> Heavy - heavy machine gun + flaylock pistol (SOONGäó) [20]
> Heavy - forge gun + scrambler pistol [20]
> Heavy - plasma cannon (SOONGäó) + scrambler pistol [20]
> crusader (SOONGäó) - slots currently unknown [20]
> pilot (SOONGäó) - slots currently unknown [20]

The overwhelming majority of players are AR users, many of them have never even bothered trying another light weapon other than the sniper rifle. This is a problem for getting reliable feedback; how can someone have a good understanding of whether or not a weapon is overpowered if they themselves have never used it and don't understand its drawbacks? If you want to get more reliable feedback for balancing, then you need to let new players have access to all weapon types from the very start, they need to experience a weapon from both ends to have a reliable opinion on the weapon. Having all weapon types represented in the starter fits would g let players be better testers

Thank you for reading.

The only issue is that this isn't a good idea for a game that uses an economic system like this one will.

I actually want to see your idea implemented as a VR training system like many of us have requested, with all equipment available to be experimented with for free in an environment that provides no SP or ISK, just to allow players to get a feel for what they want to spec into.

Its not unlimited, they would still have to restock and pay for things, so how would it be bad economically for the game?
That VR training with all items thing sounds pretty awesome also, I would definitely support that.