DUST Search - [Req] More MLT gear + ALL suits/guns/equipment represented in BPC starter fits (...

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Not more milita stuff since milita stuff is as good as basic

Take the milita forge gun 1200 damage and can easily destroy a gunlogi because ive done it

Milita weapons basically stop players from skilling up into the proper varients because they are very good as they are, espc with AV no need to skill up past basic or if your super lazy stick with milita and just hammer away at it and you will get it anyways

Actually no, militia weapons do generally have the same damage as standard, but they have higher fitting requirements, and frequently less ammo per magazine.
Militia laser rifles, mass drivers, etc could have smaller clip size, less total ammo, and higher fitting requirements (like all militia items) to motivate players to skill up to standard and above. If that isn't enough, being killed by advanced and prototype users will do the trick.
I don't see why its ok for some weapons to have militia variants while its not ok for others.

Players get militia ARs and SMGs, but you still see people running around with GEK ARs and Toxin SMGs.


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Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.02.01 17:09:00 - [1] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Not more milita stuff since milita stuff is as good as basic Take the milita forge gun 1200 damage and can easily destroy a gunlogi because ive done it Milita weapons basically stop players from skilling up into the proper varients because they are very good as they are, espc with AV no need to skill up past basic or if your super lazy stick with milita and just hammer away at it and you will get it anyways Actually no, militia weapons do generally have the same damage as standard, but they have higher fitting requirements, and frequently less ammo per magazine. Militia laser rifles, mass drivers, etc could have smaller clip size, less total ammo, and higher fitting requirements (like all militia items) to motivate players to skill up to standard and above. If that isn't enough, being killed by advanced and prototype users will do the trick. I don't see why its ok for some weapons to have militia variants while its not ok for others. Players get militia ARs and SMGs, but you still see people running around with GEK ARs and Toxin SMGs. It's also important not to forget skills, Yes militia weapons allow you to use the gear without skills, but they do not give the buffs provided by skills and things like higher accuracy, better RoF, more damage, better range, etc. should not be ignored. Yes a player who's spec'ed their character into AV can use the militia Forge to take out an above militia vehicle chassis but that doesn't mean it was A) an above militia fitting (low meta mods on a mid meta frame still = a low meta fit) or that B) it was the weapon alone (AV player skill + AV character skills = greater impact than the gun alone). This same reasoning applies across the boards, player skill, and character SP investment, as well as the other elements of the fitting (both that of the user and the target) all play a role, overlooking any aspect of the above doesn't provide for the proper context to evaluate what's occurring. 0.02 ISK Cross EDIT: Let's keep our terminology clear, Starter fits may function in a similar way to Militia BPOs but they are NOT the same item. Starter fits are provided to new players free of charge from CCP. Militia BPOs are purchased with AUR (i.e. use of real cash). Treating the two as if their identical is both inaccurate and problematic.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.02.10 04:19:00 - [2] - Quote WHz DS9899 wrote: (before you reply back, yes I read the entire thread) This seems like a good idea on paper, but if you think about i, this idea starts to have problems. You see, this would mean if the bluedots figure out how to restock, they would never ave to change their kit out. They would just keep on restocking those kits, and never have to skill up. The only way to fix this is to nerf militia items, like how they nerfed militia vehicles (and just about every other part of the vehicles). They need to learn that it's a necessity to get out of militia stuff, otherwise the most used gun and kit will be the starter AR kit. Respectfully sir you are incorrect. The meta level of the items matters (with a few improper exceptions, I'm looking at you equipment tree ) and folks choosing to stay only in militia gear are choosing to handicap themselves from the word go. Besides which the scenario you describe is already in game in the sense that players can already do that with most, and the most common, aspects of the game. The Assault suit and the Assault Rifle are more common than other options and are available in militia (both BPO and BPC). Adding a more rarefied option (such as the laser, mass driver, or forge) doesn't alter the present condition of the game in this respect it simply levels the playing field when it comes to new players being able to try and learn a more unusual weapon/fit thus increasing game diversity. In addition to the above, a player choosing not to skill up is vastly hindering their own effectiveness on the field (well ok the laser rifle tree currently is not properly applying it's mechanical bonuses, but bugs aside). Put a character with a meta zero (i.e. militia level) mass driver up against someone rocking a freedom, boundless or core and they'll lose (unless they've already trained superior player skills with the mass driver but that's true for everything and not a balance concern). Even comparing those two militia mass drivers side by side the player will skills will have 25% more damage, 25% more splash, faster reload time, more total ammo and some extra CPU with which to fit another/better mod to help them. Assuming equal player skills with the weapon in question a player with invested SP will triumph over one without. So a player with only a meta 0 weapon and no SP support pitted against someone with higher meta gear and proper SP investment... well let's just say I'd take those odds 0.02 ISK Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.02.10 16:33:00 - [3] - Quote bump
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.02.10 23:00:00 - [4] - Quote Snippet in question KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Limited starter fits should be expanded so that all dropsuits, equipment, and weapons are represented.