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F2P but P2C ???

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Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:10:00 - [1] - Quote ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:12:00 - [2] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? You're stupid, How do you purpose how we fix this 5 years from now with 5 year old characters in the game then? Matter of factly Eve is 10 years old, There are characters from day 1 beta still in the game even now, How do you compete against that? New players join every year and they make it big all the time.
Torr Wrath Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 58	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:12:00 - [3] - Quote sigh
Sylvana Nightwind Expert Intervention Caldari State 60	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:13:00 - [4] - Quote Every skill has maximum of 5 levels. How fast you get to it, is your thing. You pace yourself and decide to pay for faster reaching level 5 of skills or not. Pay to win would be if you payed to get to level 6 and the other guy would be locked out of it unless he payed. I don't see a single problem with this. If you join EVE Now you'd go against guys that have over 40.000.000 skill points and you have ONE. Good luck catching up with them, and yet, you can stay competitive in just a few months of play. Welcome to MMO.
Kleanur Guy SyNergy Gaming 154	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:14:00 - [5] - Quote You get the early boost. But eventually it all evens out, and if the proposed matchmaking system works you won't even play against those people if you are behind in SP.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:18:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? You're stupid, How do you purpose how we fix this 5 years from now with 5 year old characters in the game then? Matter of factly Eve is 10 years old, There are characters from day 1 beta still in the game even now, How do you compete against that? New players join every year and they make it big all the time. didnt propose a fix; simply bringing up the $$ factor of a F2P game. The idea of this was that CCP has said the casual and people who dont buy AUR will be just as competitive as someone who does have AUR. However, with boosters being a key part to AUR. As it stands boosters give u 50% more SP. SO essentially in 6 months; those who dont have boosters, will need a year of game play to equal what we did in 6 months. Just shedding light that to be competitive is costly; which seems to take away from the F2P aspect of being competitive is all
Kreayshawn Coruscanti Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 114	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:20:00 - [7] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? You're stupid, How do you purpose how we fix this 5 years from now with 5 year old characters in the game then? Matter of factly Eve is 10 years old, There are characters from day 1 beta still in the game even now, How do you compete against that? New players join every year and they make it big all the time. didnt propose a fix; simply bringing up the $$ factor of a F2P game. The idea of this was that CCP has said the casual and people who dont buy AUR will be just as competitive as someone who does have AUR. However, with boosters being a key part to AUR. As it stands boosters give u 50% more SP. SO essentially in 6 months; those who dont have boosters, will need a year of game play to equal what we did in 6 months. Just shedding light that to be competitive is costly; which seems to take away from the F2P aspect of being competitive is all ur good at math Down the line it won't matter as much though. Your character grows wider not taller. Past 3 months, maybe even 2 months, it won't even matter to people who have specialized.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:20:00 - [8] - Quote lolberserker its pay to get stuff earlier not pay to compete those who want to maximize all the SP they can gain can spend on boosters but ur not forced to buy boosters to compete once u have ur role maxed or at a comfortable lvl u can compete more SP after that just means that guy has more options in other roles
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:23:00 - [9] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: lolberserker its pay to get stuff earlier not pay to compete those who want to maximize all the SP they can gain can spend on boosters but ur not forced to buy boosters to compete once u have ur role maxed or at a comfortable lvl u can compete more SP after that just means that guy has more options in other roles yeah; just looking at the cost to get stuff early. Wasn't looking for flaming here; simply found it interesting on the amount of $$$ needed to run boosters for an extended time; and made me think about how long it'd take those not using boosters.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:23:00 - [10] - Quote Let me put it this way. There will come a day where I don't want to buy boosters anymore and as much as you want to to deny it, you too will be in the very same boat.

Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 360	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:25:00 - [11] - Quote Your coming at this in the wrong way, as some have pointed out SP isn't the be all end all. ask anyone who plays eve, if you know what your doing you can take a three week old character and mess up almost anyone in a sub-capital ship. the same applies here. Bullets from a militia AR kill proto suits just as dead as anything else. Sure skills make it easier beter gear makes it easier, knowing what your doing make it easier, but now of that means you have to do anything. I play with completely militia fits, all the time. and I can still hold my own on the battlefield. If you feel you need to pay money to compete, that might say something about you, not the game. Yes I have purchased a large number of merc packs, this is because I want to support CCP in what they are doing, not becuase I think I have to, to be able to make a difference.
Torr Wrath Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 58	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:28:00 - [12] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: As it stands boosters give u 50% more SP. SO essentially in 6 months; those who dont have boosters, will need a year of game play to equal what we did in 6 months. Form ate my post. Your math is wrong as far as my sleepy eyes can tell. We dont earn double their exp. it takes them 9 months to get what we would in 6 assuming everyone maxes out everything. that is not counting the starting 500k, or the 100k bonus, or any other bonus's earned over time. That said im tired.. Maybe my math is wrong. Longer post written. Form ate it.
Octavian Vetiver Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:30:00 - [13] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: Your coming at this in the wrong way, as some have pointed out SP isn't the be all end all. ask anyone who plays eve, if you know what your doing you can take a three week old character and mess up almost anyone in a sub-capital ship. the same applies here. Bullets from a militia AR kill proto suits just as dead as anything else. Sure skills make it easier beter gear makes it easier, knowing what your doing make it easier, but now of that means you have to do anything. I play with completely militia fits, all the time. and I can still hold my own on the battlefield. If you feel you need to pay money to compete, that might say something about you, not the game. Yes I have purchased a large number of merc packs, this is because I want to support CCP in what they are doing, not becuase I think I have to, to be able to make a difference. 3 weeks? Try 3 days or less. You can do it with a pack of hours old characters. Train a few key skills and then fit some cheap ships. Done.
Ourors Doomheim 130	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:42:00 - [14] - Quote Eve solves this problem easily by security levels of space. the vets go off to null or lowsec, the newbs (and some PVE vets) stick to highsec. right now, Dust lacks this VERY CRITICAL feature. it's as if everyone in eve were sudden;y thrust into, and had to start in, nullsec. it'd be a damn bloodbath i wish ccp would make some rudimentary matchmaking in the mean time
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:45:00 - [15] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: lolberserker its pay to get stuff earlier not pay to compete those who want to maximize all the SP they can gain can spend on boosters but ur not forced to buy boosters to compete once u have ur role maxed or at a comfortable lvl u can compete more SP after that just means that guy has more options in other roles yeah; just looking at the cost to get stuff early. Wasn't looking for flaming here; simply found it interesting on the amount of $$$ needed to run boosters for an extended time; and made me think about how long it'd take those not using boosters. this is the norm in every F2P game u spend real cash to get stuff a bit earlier that isnt pay to win thats pay to grind less thats how F2P games make their money of cosmetics and xp boosters. Some ppl dont have the time to always play so they can run passive boosters some competitive players early on at the beginning will want to run both active and passive there is only so much SP u can dump into a role and lets be honest ppl will ALWAYS be at different SP lvls in this game. Even if they took away boosters ppl will still be at different lvls because of playtime
Three Double-A Batteries Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:49:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You're stupid That's the EVE spirit right there boys and girls! OP makes some interesting points though. If it looks like a duck and quaks like a duck is it a duck? You have a store with items people will buy for good reasons. Are they over priced?
RECON BY FIRE BetaMax. 51	Posted - 2013.01.26 05:00:00 - [17] - Quote I have yet to spend a single cent on this game (however, I did go buy a $20 card today to get the merc pack), but I still feel Im fairly competitive. More often than not Im in the top 5 on my team. I may not be, and will likely never be, top 5 on the leaderboard, but Im very happy getting top 5 in most games. I even did this with my less than week old self, new to the game, with people already at 3 mil+ SP during Codex. Last night I even jumped on my heavy alt with no skill in ARs, no SP outside of what is given you at the beginning, and still earned 2000+ WP in games with the frontline and medic starter fits. So I was on a level playing field with the newberries and at a disadvantage with people that have got the headstart and was still very competitive! This game is more about skill than people like to let on.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.26 05:12:00 - [18] - Quote I would never buy the boosters that are in the store; they're just too overpriced for what they do, IMO. So far, I've just bought a bunch of BPOs, and will be buying the Cistern Nanohives when I get the skill to use them (only 60K more SP). Other than that, I don't know what I'll be doing with my AUR... Currently, I'm using just militia and a few Standard things (Standard BPO Dropsuit and AR); I'm doing perfectly fine (by that, I mean I've rarely not been in the top 5, most often top 3. I am also rolling in a group). Yes, there are a bunch of noobs running around, but even against people who have a clue I'm still doing decent or better. I have a Standard + Adv AR loadout, and a Standard AV loadout, but I only bring them out when I really need to (when militia isn't cutting it), and so far I just really haven't had to. I will eventually, though, and they're ready and waiting to be used. Overall, I'm not sure skills will have as much an impact as we think they will; sure, a noob going against a guy in Advanced or Proto gear will not do well, but who really expects him to? After a few months, the people who play a good amount will all have their specialization well underway, and will hit it not too long after. They'll have to branch out their SP spending eventually. So, they'll be a bit more broad with their skills, more going towards a "jack-of-all-trades" after a period of time. But...that really doesn't matter as much. Yes, it will have an influence, but when you have all the "main" skills at 5, and a bunch of others do too...what do those "branched" skill differences matter? The boosters will help you get to that first "finished" specialization quicker, but that's it, really. Eventually, those not using boosters will also get to that point, and after that you no longer get "better" in that area but have to "branch out" into others, or hoard SP. And since you can only do one thing at a time in a match, will having a ton more SP matter that much? I think skill boosters only matter in the beginning; in a few months, it won't matter who used one and who didn't. All that will is that they have their main "specialization" done or not. Hopefully, those who don't have it done will not be playing in public matches against those that do.
Lord Crases PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2013.01.26 05:13:00 - [19] - Quote Three Double-A Batteries wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You're stupid That's the EVE spirit right there boys and girls! OP makes some interesting points though. If it looks like a duck and quaks like a duck is it a duck? You have a store with items people will buy for good reasons. Are they over priced? The OP doesn't make any interesting points though the person you quote could have put some solf gloves on. The OP and many others are always going to be the group of people that fall into the selfish progression table. Example: Currently people think Skill Cap is that only thing prevent so called no lifers from surpassing them seemingly unfairly. But what these self same people don't care about is the new players that are eternally bottle necked in always being behind older players. (if you follow the logic thats SP amount = more powerful 'I steam roll all' character) The problem with both the OP's points presented here and the above argument mention the cap is that SP will never make it so you steam roll players. As I have stated many times before: There are only 2 skills that boost your 'heath' (armor and shields respectively) And 1 flat damage increase to all weapons (10% I think) and a weapon dependent skill that gives you more clip ammo so you can fire longer. Yes a character with more SP may have an edge but not to a degree that a fully skilled up player can steam roll from one fire fight to the next. Each fight even if they are remaining fairly unscathed will always have a hard time vs a hard counter. It ultimately come down to Tactics first and foremost. Hopeful this community as a whole will learn that, grow up a little and these threads can go the way of the dinosaurs. Pref able by sinking in a pit of tar, drowning a horrible slimy death.... Maybe on fire!
RECON BY FIRE BetaMax. 51	Posted - 2013.01.26 05:23:00 - [20] - Quote Lord Crases wrote: and a weapon dependent skill that gives you more clip ammo so you can fire longer. Actually that skill increases the total amount of ammo you can carry, not magazine capacity.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.01.26 06:19:00 - [21] - Quote I am just saying the OP wasted time thinking on an issue that was dead on day 2 or more accurate to say, dead within being a minute late to the party. and normally I am nicer but I only get very blunt and rude if I feel its absolutely necessary to break though some people's thick skulls. This normally gets people to rethink why their angle or topic selection is an poor choice of championing, In retrospect, its an aggressive kindness I offer. I would have torn the topic up and down the entire street if you let me really go at it.
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.01.26 06:29:00 - [22] - Quote You don't sound like you understand the system very well. As you are new that is understandable. You might have made some sense if you came at this from a more reasonable direction. You got results that you did because of your method. CCP developed EVE Online and that game will have its 10 year anniversary soon. I am not an EVE player but I do know that there have been constant ongoing changes and increased complexity to EVE. CCP has messed up some of the changes but they do listen to the EVE community. DUST514 is going to be very tied to EVE. Exactly to what extent is unknown. What can be deduced is this version of the game is the bare bones. The foundation of what will be enhanced over several additional years. To max the current SP levels is planned to take years. By the time you get there more will have been added. So focus on your play style and fine tune the items/skills/purchases that enhance your experience. Real World Cash is going to be required to keep development ongoing and for server support. Some of the AUR items in the Market make an item available a level or two below the ISK counterpart. The Boosters give you a reasonable bump in what you can accomplish in a day. Soon to be a week, hopefully. And, your numbers are off, BTW. A Merc Pack is $20. It includes a 30 day Active Booster. Four 7 day Passive Boosters are 7000 AUR each for a total of 28K AUR leaving you 12K AUR to buy toys with. Why would you buy it any other way? Pay to complete? You have no concept of the length of this game. No one will never complete DUST514.
slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2013.01.26 06:55:00 - [23] - Quote Once I max a sagaris, I'll probably stop using active and passive boosters. and OP it will take some one not using boosters 9 months to get the same amount as someone using active and passive boosters gets in 6 months. That being said eventually what you specialized in will be maxed out and then you can go into another specialization. But the guy not using boosters will catch up and max out that same specialization.
PAUL BERNARD Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 76	Posted - 2013.01.26 07:30:00 - [24] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? pay to compete for the first.... month. two months. with specific training it doesnt matter over time. and one the market is to a full market the cheapsters can isk for boosters.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2013.01.26 07:35:00 - [25] - Quote If you take a strictly short-term view of the game, then it can be seen as pay-to-compete. Long-term, it only takes - WITHOUT boosters - a matter of a couple of months to specialise into a particular role. It can be more or less than that depending on how often you're playing and what role you choose
develsgun Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising 19	Posted - 2013.01.26 07:47:00 - [26] - Quote Im a closed beta tester thats pure 100% f2p I never bout the merc pack never bought a booster never nought some pissy aurum item yet I will still hold around the top 5 spots in my gameand even then normally the people ahead of me are only so by a couple of kills This game aint pay to win and if u did a search u can find closed beta threads on such things with about 20 people ranting how awsomely ccp has accomplished this
Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2013.01.26 08:00:00 - [27] - Quote CCP have to make a positive net on thier product so of course they need to give some incentive to buy aurum but it's not pay to compete.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2013.01.26 12:06:00 - [28] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? No. I just went 20 and 0 with no boosters and a MILITIA setup. Now if you want to be #1 on the leaderboards with 9000 kills then you need to pay to compete with Red Bull, No Doze and about ten kilos of coffee and a recliner with built in toilet seat and probably an IV for meals.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.01.26 12:21:00 - [29] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? i hate sub fees. i'll take a hit to my competition or i'll fork out cash if i feel it makes the game funner, but i hate archaic sub fees
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2013.01.26 12:50:00 - [30] - Quote sry but thats a load of rubbish i dont use boosters or andy aurum gear yet i can ttop the board and compete with some of the top ranking peeps

Michael Cratar Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 179	Posted - 2013.01.26 14:49:00 - [31] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? Is there a thumbs down button?
Cyris Fortune ZionTCD Legacy Rising 66	Posted - 2013.01.26 14:56:00 - [32] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: The idea of this was that CCP has said the casual and people who dont buy AUR will be just as competitive as someone who does have AUR. However, with boosters being a key part to AUR. Just shedding light that to be competitive is costly; which seems to take away from the F2P aspect of being competitive is all Ok you do realize there will be a free market. meaning players can buy and sell their stuff on the market for the price they wish to demand (getting some to pay it is the key). so essentially you will get people buying Aur to buy Aur items which they don not use or want to sell on the market for ISK. A player who can not or does not have Aur can grind out ISk or win it via contracted corp battle etc. They then use this ISK to purchase Aur items so it is F2P? Why would some use RL money to buy Aur just to sell the items for ISK? maybe they don't have the time to grind ISk but they want the latest proto item or a costly dropship. you will even find some Corps using bought Aur to sell for ISk injects to the corp wallet to afford the collateral payments need to take big paying Eve player corp contracts. i have been in this beta along time and believe me this debate has been discussed a lot between the beta testers and even some Dev's responses. The majority agree this is not P2W or P2C. It is matter of selling time like in most MMO's with time codes etc. Do you want to skill up faster. Then get a booster, by paying Aur (no need to grind or spend your ISK) or by Grinding for ISK. You could even use this when you naming your price in a corp contract "i need x ISK" (to by x boosters). The choice is the players, its up to you welcome to a "SandBox" game. I hope helps you and others understand the game a bit better.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 283	Posted - 2013.01.26 15:17:00 - [33] - Quote Sylvana Nightwind wrote: Every skill has maximum of 5 levels. How fast you get to it, is your thing. You pace yourself and decide to pay for faster reaching level 5 of skills or not. Pay to win would be if you payed to get to level 6 and the other guy would be locked out of it unless he payed. I don't see a single problem with this. If you join EVE Now you'd go against guys that have over 40.000.000 skill points and you have ONE. Good luck catching up with them, and yet, you can stay competitive in just a few months of play. Welcome to MMO. Because you can have 4000000 skill points and yet there is only 5 levels in every skill only 10-15 of those skill are actually applicable in any given situation, if that. So total skill points are irrelevant, its how you specialise and play. There are 10 year old eve players who have maxed skills in interceptors who die to 3 month old characters because said 3 month old character know how the combat side of the game works. Its not about skill points, is about player skill, knowledge, tactics and team. Goon swarm claimed sov space in 2006 amid the condescending snorts of their fellow players flying frigates and cruisers against character 3 times their age fly tech 2 gear. Simply because they did something nobody had thought of before in eve... zerg rush.
slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2013.01.26 16:43:00 - [34] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? No. I just went 20 and 0 with no boosters and a MILITIA setup. Now if you want to be #1 on the leaderboards with 9000 kills then you need to pay to compete with Red Bull, No Doze and about ten kilos of coffee and a recliner with built in toilet seat and probably an IV for meals. IV would keep you hydrated, You would need a G-tube (Gastronomy Tube) to get nutrition and fluids.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2013.01.26 16:47:00 - [35] - Quote Ok 3 things. 1.) last build I was 3 mil down on my corp buds. They had over 10 mil Sp, I had 7mil. Now, at that stage I was not competative. Thing is, that would have gone away after a few weeks more SP. it was unpleasant, but simply something you have to grind and QQ through. 2.) This talk of PvP in eve with a new chat is total bollox. Go look at how ZionTCD are doing in their war. People mean "you can be useful in PvP". Not competative. The difference is huge (2good battle cruisers with high SP and good pilots > 5-6 nOObs). Been there, done that, decided it'll take atleast 3 months to get a reasonable ship/char. 3.) There will be different levels of competition. Say imps had 3 battles, 1 vs SI, 1 vs SyN, and 1 against a rubbish corp, the "uncompetitive" players get to do battle 3 :D The gap is there, but it only shows up at certain points (usually around the 25% mark).
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:18:00 - [36] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Ok 3 things. 1.) last build I was 3 mil down on my corp buds. They had over 10 mil Sp, I had 7mil. Now, at that stage I was not competative. Thing is, that would have gone away after a few weeks more SP. it was unpleasant, but simply something you have to grind and QQ through. 2.) This talk of PvP in eve with a new chat is total bollox. Go look at how ZionTCD are doing in their war. People mean "you can be useful in PvP". Not competative. The difference is huge (2good battle cruisers with high SP and good pilots > 5-6 nOObs). Been there, done that, decided it'll take atleast 3 months to get a reasonable ship/char. 3.) There will be different levels of competition. Say imps had 3 battles, 1 vs SI, 1 vs SyN, and 1 against a rubbish corp, the "uncompetitive" players get to do battle 3 :D The gap is there, but it only shows up at certain points (usually around the 25% mark). that is all i was trying to say/show . As right now per week, those who run double boosters over someone who doesn't run any gets ~150-200k more SP. SO per month that is b/t 600-800k. That may not seem like a lot, but if you keep adding that month by month it adds up. Heck, where my character was last build was great for me (though, if tings weren't changed it'd of taken a differ route); but to set that character up it took what roughly 3-4months? That was with us getting about an extra 200k SP a week then we do now. So what took me 3-4 months; might now take me 6months or so; which then may take someone w/o bosters 9-10 months for the exact build. Overall yes, everyone will get what they want, but how competitive will you be ? (remember this isn't just for us hardcore players, but casuals as well) @Tony: def liked your corp battle example. As we all know skill usually is > then gear; but having the skill + gear puts things even more in your favor
Thorn Badblood R.I.f.t 0	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:20:00 - [37] - Quote In EVE you only get passive SP so if the OP is going to base his statement on that model, then it would be 7k AUR x 4 which is 28000 AUR, which is less than a monthly subscription.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:47:00 - [38] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Lord Crases wrote: and a weapon dependent skill that gives you more clip ammo so you can fire longer. Actually that skill increases the total amount of ammo you can carry, not magazine capacity. I believe he's referring to the clip increase for the Scrambler pistol.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2013.01.26 18:20:00 - [39] - Quote Thorn Badblood wrote: In EVE you only get passive SP so if the OP is going to base his statement on that model, then it would be 7k AUR x 4 which is 28000 AUR, which is less than a monthly subscription. but that doesn't work; as you get active here; so it needed to be accounted for. You can't disregard 1/2 of what you are paying. As is, you pay roughly $30 a month for boosters, but an eve subscription is $15 (i believe). So for the edge & to stay competitive you are paying about double the price of what an eve subscription is. I'd also rather have Dust be F2P but $15 subscription price for passive & active boosters per month, as it'd be 1/2 the cost money wise
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 92	Posted - 2013.01.26 18:37:00 - [40] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? i think ill try to justify it here...... FIRST: that 20$ pack your talking about gives you 40k AUR AND a 30 day SP booster, so for example ive bought two merc packs so far, thats 40$ for 80k AUR AND i have 60 days worth of active sp boosters, the only thing i spend money on is my passive boosters which i have about 10 weeks worth of AUR to do anyway. SECOND: now that i have a 60 day booster, im playing religiously to use it to its upmost. Thats what anyone who bought a booster should be doing because of the daily cap they added. As my skills are going now, im expecting to be in my B series suit within the next 30 days, 15 days should net me around 1 million sp, and im spending another million on "core" skills right now. (making my type II suit as valuable as possible). after that ill be heading strate to proto which will be another 15 days are so depending on what i decide to do then, so basically i have my skill tree planeed for the next 45 days or so. THIRD: Now, by the time i get to my b series im expecting everyone to be hitting either the A-series, or start getting good with the type II suit, as most people i see now has militia gear on. Once i hit Proto im expecting most other people to be hitting b-series. Now trust me when i say that you can be VERY competitive with a type II suit, let alone a b-series. But now that i hit proto on my dropsuits, ill be stuck with that, i hit the ceiling so i cant go any futher up. Now within the next month after that, many others will also start unlocking their proto suits too, So even though my boosters got me there faster, people without them will surely catch up eventually, especially considering im not really willing to spend too much more on the game (atleast not right now). CONCLUSION: so is it pay to compete? right now it probably is since most people haven't hit that ceiling yet, and this is truly only relevant in corp battles when your playing against other people who have also bought boosters. however as the game gets older and more and more people start to hit that ceiling people will be able to compete no matter who they are. In my honest opinion once everyone hits the 3-5 million SP they should be able to compete with just about anything depending on how specialized they are.

Blondie Roads Imperfects Negative-Feedback 7	Posted - 2013.01.26 19:07:00 - [41] - Quote Aurum allows you to do more faster.. That is CCP's take. In a year it will be no longer relevant to all those playing, however it will still continue to help all the new people coming into the game to get a quick boost. I don't want to start any arguments but ...Isn't it kinda funny that the people without jobs just want no cap for sp and have money a non issue. But people with jobs want cap and don't mind the p2p.. Everyone is bias, but in the end this game is a buissness. I wonder which side will win?
Tgradrian Tgrad Mercs 3	Posted - 2013.01.27 00:07:00 - [42] - Quote You are new and spend points in heavy dropsuit and lazor rifles. I am 1.2mill sp already but have 0 skilpoints in those. If we have the same playing skill you should beat me every time. Got it?
Blondie Roads Imperfects Negative-Feedback 7	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:37:00 - [43] - Quote Tgradrian wrote: You are new and spend points in heavy dropsuit and lazor rifles. I am 1.2mill sp already but have 0 skilpoints in those. If we have the same playing skill you should beat me every time. Got it? Are we both in the same forum topic?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:41:00 - [44] - Quote Blondie Roads wrote: Tgradrian wrote: You are new and spend points in heavy dropsuit and lazor rifles. I am 1.2mill sp already but have 0 skilpoints in those. If we have the same playing skill you should beat me every time. Got it? Are we both in the same forum topic? He's implying from one possible persons point of view that in order to compete one must be a Heavy with a laser rifle. He is also further explaining this or whatever his specialization is didn't cost him a dime. Then packaged it all up in a satire in possible hopes in making you either look stupid or feel stupid or imply you're a big whiner. 'You' being whomever the addressee is likely the OP.
Pays 2 Win Shining Flame Amarr Empire 102	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:46:00 - [45] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? I have nothing intelligent to contribute to this post. I just wish it were P2W. I would be so good at this.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 206	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:46:00 - [46] - Quote Three Double-A Batteries wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You're stupid Are they over priced? remember the 70$ asthetic in eve?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:50:00 - [47] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: Three Double-A Batteries wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You're stupid Are they over priced? remember the 70$ asthetic in eve? Oh yes, summer of rage, I defended avatar game play, I did not defend the arum store over pricing. For the Record.
56 truth Algintal Core Gallente Federation 73	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:53:00 - [48] - Quote yay i get use one of calling cards again (also it a good video i say) : http://extra-credits.net/episodes/microtransactions/


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