DUST Search - F2P but P2C ???

Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:

Berserker007 wrote:

ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it.

At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters.

I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here).

So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?).

My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ?

No.
I just went 20 and 0 with no boosters and a MILITIA setup.

Now if you want to be #1 on the leaderboards with 9000 kills then you need to pay to compete with Red Bull, No Doze and about ten kilos of coffee and a recliner with built in toilet seat and probably an IV for meals.

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Michael Cratar Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 179	Posted - 2013.01.26 14:49:00 - [31] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? Is there a thumbs down button?
Cyris Fortune ZionTCD Legacy Rising 66	Posted - 2013.01.26 14:56:00 - [32] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: The idea of this was that CCP has said the casual and people who dont buy AUR will be just as competitive as someone who does have AUR. However, with boosters being a key part to AUR. Just shedding light that to be competitive is costly; which seems to take away from the F2P aspect of being competitive is all Ok you do realize there will be a free market. meaning players can buy and sell their stuff on the market for the price they wish to demand (getting some to pay it is the key). so essentially you will get people buying Aur to buy Aur items which they don not use or want to sell on the market for ISK. A player who can not or does not have Aur can grind out ISk or win it via contracted corp battle etc. They then use this ISK to purchase Aur items so it is F2P? Why would some use RL money to buy Aur just to sell the items for ISK? maybe they don't have the time to grind ISk but they want the latest proto item or a costly dropship. you will even find some Corps using bought Aur to sell for ISk injects to the corp wallet to afford the collateral payments need to take big paying Eve player corp contracts. i have been in this beta along time and believe me this debate has been discussed a lot between the beta testers and even some Dev's responses. The majority agree this is not P2W or P2C. It is matter of selling time like in most MMO's with time codes etc. Do you want to skill up faster. Then get a booster, by paying Aur (no need to grind or spend your ISK) or by Grinding for ISK. You could even use this when you naming your price in a corp contract "i need x ISK" (to by x boosters). The choice is the players, its up to you welcome to a "SandBox" game. I hope helps you and others understand the game a bit better.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 283	Posted - 2013.01.26 15:17:00 - [33] - Quote Sylvana Nightwind wrote: Every skill has maximum of 5 levels. How fast you get to it, is your thing. You pace yourself and decide to pay for faster reaching level 5 of skills or not. Pay to win would be if you payed to get to level 6 and the other guy would be locked out of it unless he payed. I don't see a single problem with this. If you join EVE Now you'd go against guys that have over 40.000.000 skill points and you have ONE. Good luck catching up with them, and yet, you can stay competitive in just a few months of play. Welcome to MMO. Because you can have 4000000 skill points and yet there is only 5 levels in every skill only 10-15 of those skill are actually applicable in any given situation, if that. So total skill points are irrelevant, its how you specialise and play. There are 10 year old eve players who have maxed skills in interceptors who die to 3 month old characters because said 3 month old character know how the combat side of the game works. Its not about skill points, is about player skill, knowledge, tactics and team. Goon swarm claimed sov space in 2006 amid the condescending snorts of their fellow players flying frigates and cruisers against character 3 times their age fly tech 2 gear. Simply because they did something nobody had thought of before in eve... zerg rush.
slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2013.01.26 16:43:00 - [34] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? No. I just went 20 and 0 with no boosters and a MILITIA setup. Now if you want to be #1 on the leaderboards with 9000 kills then you need to pay to compete with Red Bull, No Doze and about ten kilos of coffee and a recliner with built in toilet seat and probably an IV for meals. IV would keep you hydrated, You would need a G-tube (Gastronomy Tube) to get nutrition and fluids.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2013.01.26 16:47:00 - [35] - Quote Ok 3 things. 1.) last build I was 3 mil down on my corp buds. They had over 10 mil Sp, I had 7mil. Now, at that stage I was not competative. Thing is, that would have gone away after a few weeks more SP. it was unpleasant, but simply something you have to grind and QQ through. 2.) This talk of PvP in eve with a new chat is total bollox. Go look at how ZionTCD are doing in their war. People mean "you can be useful in PvP". Not competative. The difference is huge (2good battle cruisers with high SP and good pilots > 5-6 nOObs). Been there, done that, decided it'll take atleast 3 months to get a reasonable ship/char. 3.) There will be different levels of competition. Say imps had 3 battles, 1 vs SI, 1 vs SyN, and 1 against a rubbish corp, the "uncompetitive" players get to do battle 3 :D The gap is there, but it only shows up at certain points (usually around the 25% mark).
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:18:00 - [36] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Ok 3 things. 1.) last build I was 3 mil down on my corp buds. They had over 10 mil Sp, I had 7mil. Now, at that stage I was not competative. Thing is, that would have gone away after a few weeks more SP. it was unpleasant, but simply something you have to grind and QQ through. 2.) This talk of PvP in eve with a new chat is total bollox. Go look at how ZionTCD are doing in their war. People mean "you can be useful in PvP". Not competative. The difference is huge (2good battle cruisers with high SP and good pilots > 5-6 nOObs). Been there, done that, decided it'll take atleast 3 months to get a reasonable ship/char. 3.) There will be different levels of competition. Say imps had 3 battles, 1 vs SI, 1 vs SyN, and 1 against a rubbish corp, the "uncompetitive" players get to do battle 3 :D The gap is there, but it only shows up at certain points (usually around the 25% mark). that is all i was trying to say/show . As right now per week, those who run double boosters over someone who doesn't run any gets ~150-200k more SP. SO per month that is b/t 600-800k. That may not seem like a lot, but if you keep adding that month by month it adds up. Heck, where my character was last build was great for me (though, if tings weren't changed it'd of taken a differ route); but to set that character up it took what roughly 3-4months? That was with us getting about an extra 200k SP a week then we do now. So what took me 3-4 months; might now take me 6months or so; which then may take someone w/o bosters 9-10 months for the exact build. Overall yes, everyone will get what they want, but how competitive will you be ? (remember this isn't just for us hardcore players, but casuals as well) @Tony: def liked your corp battle example. As we all know skill usually is > then gear; but having the skill + gear puts things even more in your favor
Thorn Badblood R.I.f.t 0	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:20:00 - [37] - Quote In EVE you only get passive SP so if the OP is going to base his statement on that model, then it would be 7k AUR x 4 which is 28000 AUR, which is less than a monthly subscription.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.01.26 17:47:00 - [38] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Lord Crases wrote: and a weapon dependent skill that gives you more clip ammo so you can fire longer. Actually that skill increases the total amount of ammo you can carry, not magazine capacity. I believe he's referring to the clip increase for the Scrambler pistol.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2013.01.26 18:20:00 - [39] - Quote Thorn Badblood wrote: In EVE you only get passive SP so if the OP is going to base his statement on that model, then it would be 7k AUR x 4 which is 28000 AUR, which is less than a monthly subscription. but that doesn't work; as you get active here; so it needed to be accounted for. You can't disregard 1/2 of what you are paying. As is, you pay roughly $30 a month for boosters, but an eve subscription is $15 (i believe). So for the edge & to stay competitive you are paying about double the price of what an eve subscription is. I'd also rather have Dust be F2P but $15 subscription price for passive & active boosters per month, as it'd be 1/2 the cost money wise
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 92	Posted - 2013.01.26 18:37:00 - [40] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? i think ill try to justify it here...... FIRST: that 20$ pack your talking about gives you 40k AUR AND a 30 day SP booster, so for example ive bought two merc packs so far, thats 40$ for 80k AUR AND i have 60 days worth of active sp boosters, the only thing i spend money on is my passive boosters which i have about 10 weeks worth of AUR to do anyway. SECOND: now that i have a 60 day booster, im playing religiously to use it to its upmost. Thats what anyone who bought a booster should be doing because of the daily cap they added. As my skills are going now, im expecting to be in my B series suit within the next 30 days, 15 days should net me around 1 million sp, and im spending another million on "core" skills right now. (making my type II suit as valuable as possible). after that ill be heading strate to proto which will be another 15 days are so depending on what i decide to do then, so basically i have my skill tree planeed for the next 45 days or so. THIRD: Now, by the time i get to my b series im expecting everyone to be hitting either the A-series, or start getting good with the type II suit, as most people i see now has militia gear on. Once i hit Proto im expecting most other people to be hitting b-series. Now trust me when i say that you can be VERY competitive with a type II suit, let alone a b-series. But now that i hit proto on my dropsuits, ill be stuck with that, i hit the ceiling so i cant go any futher up. Now within the next month after that, many others will also start unlocking their proto suits too, So even though my boosters got me there faster, people without them will surely catch up eventually, especially considering im not really willing to spend too much more on the game (atleast not right now). CONCLUSION: so is it pay to compete? right now it probably is since most people haven't hit that ceiling yet, and this is truly only relevant in corp battles when your playing against other people who have also bought boosters. however as the game gets older and more and more people start to hit that ceiling people will be able to compete no matter who they are. In my honest opinion once everyone hits the 3-5 million SP they should be able to compete with just about anything depending on how specialized they are.

Blondie Roads Imperfects Negative-Feedback 7	Posted - 2013.01.26 19:07:00 - [41] - Quote Aurum allows you to do more faster.. That is CCP's take. In a year it will be no longer relevant to all those playing, however it will still continue to help all the new people coming into the game to get a quick boost. I don't want to start any arguments but ...Isn't it kinda funny that the people without jobs just want no cap for sp and have money a non issue. But people with jobs want cap and don't mind the p2p.. Everyone is bias, but in the end this game is a buissness. I wonder which side will win?
Tgradrian Tgrad Mercs 3	Posted - 2013.01.27 00:07:00 - [42] - Quote You are new and spend points in heavy dropsuit and lazor rifles. I am 1.2mill sp already but have 0 skilpoints in those. If we have the same playing skill you should beat me every time. Got it?
Blondie Roads Imperfects Negative-Feedback 7	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:37:00 - [43] - Quote Tgradrian wrote: You are new and spend points in heavy dropsuit and lazor rifles. I am 1.2mill sp already but have 0 skilpoints in those. If we have the same playing skill you should beat me every time. Got it? Are we both in the same forum topic?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:41:00 - [44] - Quote Blondie Roads wrote: Tgradrian wrote: You are new and spend points in heavy dropsuit and lazor rifles. I am 1.2mill sp already but have 0 skilpoints in those. If we have the same playing skill you should beat me every time. Got it? Are we both in the same forum topic? He's implying from one possible persons point of view that in order to compete one must be a Heavy with a laser rifle. He is also further explaining this or whatever his specialization is didn't cost him a dime. Then packaged it all up in a satire in possible hopes in making you either look stupid or feel stupid or imply you're a big whiner. 'You' being whomever the addressee is likely the OP.
Pays 2 Win Shining Flame Amarr Empire 102	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:46:00 - [45] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, as well all know; this game is 100% free to play, as you dont really need to buy anything. However; at the moment (maybe will change), it really is P2C, or pay 2 compete as i put it. At the moment, unless you are running boosters you are at quite a disadvantage SP wise in what you can get versus someone who has boosters. I did a bit of a calc; and for a month of both passive & active boosters; you use roughtly 7k x 8 = 56k AUR for weekly boosters, then throw in two 3 day boosters (as most months are 30-31 days, not 28 ... as not using the 30 merc booster here). So thats 56k + 7k = 64k AUR. If you look on the PSN store $20 equals 43k AUR. SO essentially per month you would be paying about $30 to compete in this game. Thats $360 a year to really stay relatively competitive. So essentially for a F2P game, to actually compete you are paying double the price of what an EvE subscription is (right?). My question to CCP is please justify this ; and to the community, how do you feel about having to spend more to compete on Dust which is F2P, then EvE which is subscription based ? I have nothing intelligent to contribute to this post. I just wish it were P2W. I would be so good at this.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 206	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:46:00 - [46] - Quote Three Double-A Batteries wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You're stupid Are they over priced? remember the 70$ asthetic in eve?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:50:00 - [47] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: Three Double-A Batteries wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You're stupid Are they over priced? remember the 70$ asthetic in eve? Oh yes, summer of rage, I defended avatar game play, I did not defend the arum store over pricing. For the Record.
56 truth Algintal Core Gallente Federation 73	Posted - 2013.01.30 17:53:00 - [48] - Quote yay i get use one of calling cards again (also it a good video i say) : http://extra-credits.net/episodes/microtransactions/


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