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Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
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Posted - 2013.01.23 01:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:[FEEDBACK/DISCUSSION] BPO Items: Should they be removed entirely? Update: Militia gear is meant to help rookies to get on their feet when they first start out. We are making changes on the militia BPO prices and will be monitoring player feedback.
I really think that anything that is non-militia BPO should be removed or at least require some sort of risk to deploy. Running a Raven Assault with Exile and Toxin has little to no cost (Im using two complex shield extenders so I can tank a ton)
This is a game about Risk. Why should people be able to risk nothing? |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
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Posted - 2013.01.23 01:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
because CCP has to make money and the more people that buy that gear the more they make it is not an ideal situation but nonetheless the situation we find ourselves in. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
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Posted - 2013.01.23 01:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:because CCP has to make money and the more people that buy that gear the more they make it is not an ideal situation but nonetheless the situation we find ourselves in.
Something tells me they'll make more money from BPCs rather than BPOs. I think it took just 150 vanity dropsuits to amount to the same value of a BPO standard dropsuit.
Besides, this game won't be much fun if CCP moved forward with BPOs and people are running full protogear at 0 cost. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2013.01.23 01:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:Val'herik Dorn wrote:because CCP has to make money and the more people that buy that gear the more they make it is not an ideal situation but nonetheless the situation we find ourselves in. Something tells me they'll make more money from BPCs rather than BPOs. I think it took just 150 vanity dropsuits to amount to the same value of a BPO standard dropsuit. Besides, this game won't be much fun if CCP moved forward with BPOs and people are running full protogear at 0 cost.
i'm pretty sure when there are proto BPOs the suits will carry a construction cost, and be owned by EVE players exclusively |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
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Posted - 2013.01.23 02:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
if you happen to play eve as i do you might have noticed that infantry gear BPOS are already on the market... except they have no bill of materials or skill requirements... or anything else that makes BPOS work. -.- |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2013.01.23 02:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:if you happen to play eve as i do you might have noticed that infantry gear BPOS are already on the market... except they have no bill of materials or skill requirements... or anything else that makes BPOS work. -.-
you're also not allowed to purchase them
and no, those are the individual items. Look at the pricing on them. All of the AUR BPO items have no orders available. EVE interface icons are different. all construction BPOs in EVE can be found in the Blueprint section of the market. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
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Posted - 2013.01.23 02:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
garr i want to start making stuff for all the little merkins! |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2013.01.23 02:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:garr i want to start making stuff for all the little merkins!
I tried this already. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
143
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Posted - 2013.01.23 02:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
I have no problem with millia BPOs. I'd rather not have the standard BPOs but i can deal with it. If there are indeed advanced and prototype BPOs then it seems like it would ruin one of the strongest aspects of the game. If anyone has more info on this it would be much appreciated |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.01.23 02:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'll throw my vote in to burn the lot of them. Toxins, Exiles, MAG suits, it all adds up to a clusterf**k of people who just rambo because they lose nothing. |
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Jason Sera
DUST University Ivy League
18
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Posted - 2013.01.23 04:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
No, I disagree. The low level BPOs that exist are great for public matches and eventual PvE matches. They are low level, they make CCP money and you can crush them anyways so why worry. If you prefer, how about make BPOs unusable in Corp battles where things matter? |
Thor Thunder Fist
Better Hide R Die
79
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Posted - 2013.01.23 04:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
I as a tank driver use a raven suit with exile and toxen and BPO mods to save up isk to spend on tanks(what I have skilled up in), I'm to the point now where I have to play 2-3 games to pay for one of them babys, so I fully agree with them low level BPO's to be in the game for the vehicle drivers to use to save up isk while not in their vehicle of choice. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2013.01.23 06:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
As long as any BPOs purchased with AUR can be sold on the player marketplace (which they will be), and as long as there are no BPOs for anything higher-tier than Standard, I don't see a problem.
Although in saying that, it would be nice to see an in-between blueprint type that functions like EVE BPOs, so you have to spend material resources (and a small amount of ISK) to create the new item, but it doesn't require access to a marketplace, so you don't have to worry about variable prices and you don't have any issues with limited supply of whatever you're creating.
Also, I'm VERY strongly against the idea that there should be ANYTHING that exists in-game in DUST which is exclusive to EVE players. That's just a terrible idea on too many levels to bother going into. |
Barnabas Wrex
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
149
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Posted - 2013.01.23 06:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Those Exile assault rifles seem to tear me the KITTEN UP! |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2013.01.23 07:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
No.
They are mainly just cosmetic alternatives for Militia and first tier gear, they provide no real benefit other than slightly less ISK spend per match. (Which is currently pretty meaningless amount to begin with). |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2013.01.23 07:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:irrelevant
Not important to me. Not trolling yet.
Quote:Although in saying that, it would be nice to see an in-between blueprint type that functions like EVE BPOs, so you have to spend material resources (and a small amount of ISK) to create the new item, but it doesn't require access to a marketplace, so you don't have to worry about variable prices and you don't have any issues with limited supply of whatever you're creating.
this is the semi-consensus/rumor thing, that BPOs for equipment shall require some sort of materiels to get infinite use. i won't object.
Quote:Also, I'm VERY strongly against the idea that there should be ANYTHING that exists in-game in DUST which is exclusive to EVE players. That's just a terrible idea on too many levels to bother going into.
ehhhhhh... so long as CCP has us in training wheels and all we do is a sov shift to FW I agree.
If CCP provides the proper incentives, EVE players will shower us with cheap equipment with which to massacre one another. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2013.01.23 09:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:ehhhhhh... so long as CCP has us in training wheels and all we do is a sov shift to FW I agree.
If CCP provides the proper incentives, EVE players will shower us with cheap equipment with which to massacre one another. And that would be just as bad as if they decided they didn't like DUST enough to support us and basically locked the entire top tier (maybe more) of gear out of the hands of any players. Possibly worse. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2013.01.23 09:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:ehhhhhh... so long as CCP has us in training wheels and all we do is a sov shift to FW I agree.
If CCP provides the proper incentives, EVE players will shower us with cheap equipment with which to massacre one another. And that would be just as bad as if they decided they didn't like DUST enough to support us and basically locked the entire top tier (maybe more) of gear out of the hands of any players. Possibly worse.
oh, you haven't met EVE marketeers, have you? the good stuff won't be cheap. after all,
First one's free, Billy... First one's free. |
Musta Tornius
BetaMax.
265
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Posted - 2013.01.23 09:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
He wantss to take you away from us preciouss! |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.01.23 16:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:Val'herik Dorn wrote:because CCP has to make money and the more people that buy that gear the more they make it is not an ideal situation but nonetheless the situation we find ourselves in. Something tells me they'll make more money from BPCs rather than BPOs. I think it took just 150 vanity dropsuits to amount to the same value of a BPO standard dropsuit. Besides, this game won't be much fun if CCP moved forward with BPOs and people are running full protogear at 0 cost. Keeping a few meta 1 BPOs (which people have already payed real life money for) in game is in no way indicative of, or equivalent too, there being prototype BPOs in game.
Setting aside the non-trivial aspects of legal and/or PR implications implicit to altering such a fundamental aspect of goods/services provided after money has already changed hands let's observe it from a in game POV.
There are no Meta 1 BPO fits in game. There are a few (three by my last count) Meta 1 BPO suits in game but a dropsuit does not a full fitting make. Someone who runs runs only BPO fittings is primarily using Militia gear which is, to put it mildly, sub optimal. In essence the "advantage" they are gaining is like taking a handicap in certain betting games. They'll play matches (which are reflected in their permanent character stats) at a disadvantage to increase their net rate of ISK gain (actual gains remain the same, but costs per match go down). When applied (as is the case now) only to low level gear this is far from imbalancing as all other things being equal the player with the weaker gear will lose every time (obviously player skill plays a huge role in this and someone with high enough player skill can overcome this challenge in certain contexts).
In short low level BPOs allow a player to trade one kind of risk for another within a limited context (but only after they've spent real life cash to do so).
Or, to quote CCP
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:At its core DUST 514 is all about risk. When you jump into battle and face off against the enemy, the confrontation becomes infinitely more real and engaging if you are putting something meaningful on the line; a victory becomes sweeter and the taste of defeat all the more bitter. Think of the feeling you get when you play poker for matchsticks versus the feeling you get when you play for cold, hard cash.
That said, we realize that not all mercs will want to play for such high stakes in every match. As a way to address this need we introduced permanent Militia BPOs (Blue Print Original) to the game. These are intended as a relatively low-powered convenience option for players who either want to have that one fit thatGÇÖs always ready to go or those who want to play a few matches without the adrenalin rush provided by risking their pimped out Prototype or Officer fits. We feel strongly that this is a valid game choice, but one that should carry a price tag to reflect the great value it offers players who want to play that way. In setting that price tag we looked at the prices of all other items in the game relative to the value they offer and industry best practice for pricing permanent items in similar MMO shooter games.
The individual item prices are shown below, and you should keep an eye out for some package deals we have in the pipeline.
Item name Price (AUR) Militia Drop Uplink 9800 Militia Nanite Injector 9800 Militia Nanohive 9800 Militia Repair Tool 9800 Militia Armor Plates 4800 Militia Armor Repairer 4800 Militia CPU Upgrade 4800 Militia Cardiac Regulator 4800 Militia Cardiac Stimulant 4800 Militia Codebreaker 4800 Militia Kinetic Catalyzer 4800 Militia Light Damage Modifier 4800 Militia Myofibril Stimulant 4800 Militia PG Upgrade 4800 Militia Profile Dampener 4800 Militia Shield Extender 4800 Militia Shield Recharger 4800 Militia Shield Regulator 4800 Militia Sidearm Damage Modifier 4800 Militia 120mm Reinforced Armor Plates 4800 Militia 180mm Reinforced Armor Plates 4800 Militia 60mm Reinforced Armor Plates 4800 Militia Armor Repair Unit 4800 Militia CPU Enhancer 4800 Militia Heavy Armor Repair Unit 4800 Militia Heavy Damage Modifier 4800 Militia Heavy Shield Booster 4800 Militia Heavy Shield Extender 4800 Militia Power Diagnostic System 4800 Militia Powergrid Expansion 4800 Militia Shield Booster 4800 Militia Shield Regenerator 4800 Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier 4800 Militia Locus Grenade 9800 Militia Assault Rifle 11800 Militia Scrambler Pistol 11800 Militia Shotgun 11800 Militia Sniper Rifle 11800 Militia Submachine Gun 11800 'Raven' Assault Type-I 19800 'Valor' Scout Type-I 19800 'Sever' Logistics Type-I 19800
Note: The information in this post supersedes that in yesterdayGÇÖs post on militia BPO pricing; apologies for any confusion. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52363&find=unread
0.02 ISK Cross |
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Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
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Posted - 2013.01.23 19:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
the only BPOs i have a problem with are the prototype gear.
level zero and some level 1s are fine, but when you get to the higher end it becomes more pay to win. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.01.25 18:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:the only BPOs i have a problem with are the prototype gear.
level zero and some level 1s are fine, but when you get to the higher end it becomes more pay to win. I completely agree, there are no BPO items above meta level 1 in game right now and it should stay that way. Anything higher within the current iteration would diminish game balance. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
283
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Posted - 2013.01.25 18:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:Quote:[FEEDBACK/DISCUSSION] BPO Items: Should they be removed entirely? Update: Militia gear is meant to help rookies to get on their feet when they first start out. We are making changes on the militia BPO prices and will be monitoring player feedback. I really think that anything that is non-militia BPO should be removed or at least require some sort of risk to deploy. Running a Raven Assault with Exile and Toxin has little to no cost (Im using two complex shield extenders so I can tank a ton) This is a game about Risk. Why should people be able to risk nothing?
Because the game is like 25% done. And we are essentially all stuck on noob mod with a slight taster of intermediate (Faction warfare)
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.01.26 11:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Quote:[FEEDBACK/DISCUSSION] BPO Items: Should they be removed entirely? Update: Militia gear is meant to help rookies to get on their feet when they first start out. We are making changes on the militia BPO prices and will be monitoring player feedback. I really think that anything that is non-militia BPO should be removed or at least require some sort of risk to deploy. Running a Raven Assault with Exile and Toxin has little to no cost (Im using two complex shield extenders so I can tank a ton) This is a game about Risk. Why should people be able to risk nothing? Because the game is like 25% done. And we are essentially all stuck on noob mod with a slight taster of intermediate (Faction warfare)
In addition to the points made above, asking for the removal of BPOs already in game that were either A) tester event rewards (Exile, Skinweave) or B) purchased with IRL cash (Mag suits, Syndicate, Toxin) is asking for a PR nightmare while the game is just newly open to the public. Pretty bad call for quite a few reasons, also clearly CCP doesn't share the impression that such low meta gear is a balance risk or they'd stop adding more of it (exile, heavy starter fit, etc).
For more details on why this isn't a threat to game balance or the market even in a persistent risk vs reward game like Dust, see my earlier post on a prior page in this thread.
0.02 ISK Cross |
Crazy Mistah Jay
Prima Gallicus
11
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Posted - 2013.01.27 19:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think BPOs is a good thing when you want gains more ISK in-games, but only if it's militia or standards BPOs only, and not advanced or prototypes BPOs (too powerfull).
The thing i'm disapointing is the price of BPOs now ; overpriced in AUR, so for new players who have bought Merc pack (or other), change the cost please (i think if you bought all actual militia BPOs, the cost must be no more than 40 000 AUR, the AUR in the merc parc, like a starter).
You know, it's hard to play full BPOs in a game, because, if opponents used advanced items against you, it's very hard for you. Generally, if you see a guy with the Raven BPO and you are a beginner, run, because you have a lot of probabilities this player is a veteran in the game (since a lot of months, because veterans have learned how played the game now, so, generally, veterans are the only guys who can killed other veterans). |
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