Everyone:

Here's another angle to consider GÇö would a passive SP booster be enough to make up the difference in playtime between "full-time" players and "part-time" players? If so, a possible corollary would be the question: Is it fair that the latter type of player has to use passive boosters in order to keep up? After all, those boosters cost real-life money.

Perhaps, though, that is CCP's long-term goal, hmm? Despite the risk that such a strategy might not pay off, due to players simply deciding to leave Dust behind. After all, the console market, I believe, doesn't produce players that are as dedicated to games GÇö well, with the exception of the Call of Duty series GÇö as their PC counterparts can be.

A penny for your thoughts, folks, so to speak.

I dunno but maybe this is karma for the working class man getting all upperty and refering to others as no lifers.

Yes, but this doesn't mean there should be no cap. Even if there wasn't I wouldn't have time to catch up, or otherwise take advantage of it most days. I'm certainly not spending my entire weekend, (or those I have anyway), trying to get lots of SP so I can be close to the same as guys who started at the same time and play to cap daily.

If there was no cap, then it would hurt even more, because those that have the time would just accelerate even more and be max skilled in short order, compared to everybody else.

If there was a booster to accommodate part time players, the Full time players would use it.

I already suggested a good option for this: Allow banking of the cap to increase the limit for those who play infrequently, and reduce the difference between passive and active SP limits. If it happens to be 40000 active available per day; cut this in half and make it 20K, then up the Passive per day by 20K. Apply Boosters after.

Other ideas:

Give players who are trying to catch up a boost to active SP on top of active boosters. Make this limited, and available once per week on log in for players who have been unable to play.

(i.e: player logs in and plays Sunday, is off Mon-Wed, logs in Thurs and has the option of activating it. It lasts for 3 hours, then disappears.) It is unavailable for 7 days from the time of activation. This should not be available to more than one character per account.

Couple that with a minimum 48h period between logging off and logging back in again.

Include a Full Passive Booster on the market that gives players using it full SP per day using it. A 30 day booster that can be roughly the equivalent to a subscription cost if you will. This should be bought through the Playstation Store like the Merc pack. Active boosters may apply on top of this, and SP cap gain from them would be excluded from the total.

That basically means that you will still get active SP from the standard cap to the Booster cap.

I'm sure I could think of more ways to make this system more rounded and less detrimental for players like me.


edit: Just checking the AUR costs, 40K for roughly $20 which will buy you the equivalent of 5 passive 7-day Boosters and leave you with 5K AUR. Comparably speaking, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest the 30-day Full Passive Booster above, though you may want to have it limited to one Character per account, as with the other suggestions.

Optional I suppose though as people willing to pay for two of these might as well be able to.

We actually need a daily cap to appease the hardcore gamers so that they won't earn it all in one day then get bored.

But we need a weekly cap to ensure those who don't play everyday that they can catch up.

The solution is the rolling cap, where if you don't play a day/don't hit your cap, the potential left gets added to your cap for the next day.

So if you didn't play monday, on tuesday your SP cap would be 54K. So on and so forth.

I take it you're a member of the landed aristocracy?

I agree that folks may be right about being wrong about disagreeing about a consensus that was wrong about being right then was overturned

Oh LOOK!! another SP thread!
Never seen one of those before


I remember when we got 400, 000 SP per match!! but oh no! folks just had, had, had!! to mess with the SP ratios and post SP threads!!

Carefull what you wish for!
Well now that folks got what they asked for its a Riverworld of QQ and more QQ.

Daily cap hurts everyone...not just people with jobs but hardcore players as well. Because after 4 games, there is no more incentive to play. It really is like you're playing for nothing. And although, CCP feels like the skill point weekly progression is the same.....for the rest of us, it drags and makes playing intolerable after a while.

Go back to the weekly cap.....or, increase the daily softcap to 1000sp/match with boosters. I'm tired of being penalized by guys that don't play the game as much as I do. All because they want to keep up with us in skill points. News flash...everyone can and will not have the same amount of skill points. What about all the new players coming in??? There are no rollovers so how will they keep up?

The players that can not play as much as others should be in the same category as a player who just downloaded the game when everyone is 6 months in

I understand the disappointment with skill point caps GÇö this entire thread is an example of that (particularly, the daily limit).

That said, I don't think the caps will go away. Why? It's purely financial. Since Dust 514 is going to be a free-to-play title, CCP has no guaranteed profit, such as developers who go through storefronts and whatnot would. Therefore, CCP not only needs to find methods to bring in money in order to keep improving Dust 514, but they also need methods to keep "no-life" players from, well, playing most, if not all, of the time.

Why is this? Because those hardcore players are using CCP assets (servers, etc.), and if there wasn't a way to get them to disconnect now and then, there would be a continual drain on CCP's resources. Hence, the SP cap, IMO, has twin purposes: One, to keep players *relatively* even with each other in terms of abilities and, two, to make sure hardcore types don't sit on the servers 24/7/365.

As I've said before, it's a strategy that comes with risk for CCP. The caps might keep folks away who would otherwise play a lot, and buy a lot of Aurum items. But without the caps, those same players could be a type of albatross that shows no return on investment for CCP. At the same time, the caps could attract other players with the incentive that they will stay relatively even with the hardcore players, and those former-type players are potentially also more likely to buy Aurum items as a way to "keep up with the Joneses."

I'm not an economist, by any means. But it wouldn't surprise me one bit if just about everything CCP does has the singular goal of generating profit at some point for CCP. And, I suppose, that's necessary in order to keep Dust up and running.

We all understand the purpose of caps and we're fine with them. I'm not suggesting that we remove caps. I'm suggesting that they improve the way it is implemented so that we can enjoy the game.

Not sure why anyone would stop players from playing a game. It is bad, financially, cause if I don't play then I don't die. Which means that any aur gear I have will last longer. And that means the time between AUR purchases will be that much greater.

Bottom line. If you are a working man or woman you understand other responsibilities come before the game. No one should expect a game to bend to your schedule because you have made your choices and priorities. If anything the skill cap helps the working man because it prevents those with large amounts of free time from getting to big a gap.

If your responsible enough to be a "working man" then this should be a non issue. They do not pospone monday night football if I have to work.

Rollover FTW

Actually, this is my first SP thread, and we've been having a rather good discussion. But, of course, there's always a joker or two that pops in to rain on the party a bit. It's to be expected ... 'tis the way of the Internet, after all.

I understand the disappointment with skill point caps GÇö this entire thread is an example of that (particularly, the daily limit).

That said, I don't think the caps will go away. Why? It's purely financial. Since Dust 514 is going to be a free-to-play title, CCP has no guaranteed profit, such as developers who go through storefronts and whatnot would. Therefore, CCP not only needs to find methods to bring in money in order to keep improving Dust 514, but they also need methods to keep "no-life" players from, well, playing most, if not all, of the time.

Why is this? Because those hardcore players are using CCP assets (servers, etc.), and if there wasn't a way to get them to disconnect now and then, there would be a continual drain on CCP's resources. Hence, the SP cap, IMO, has twin purposes: One, to keep players *relatively* even with each other in terms of abilities and, two, to make sure hardcore types don't sit on the servers 24/7/365.

As I've said before, it's a strategy that comes with risk for CCP. The caps might keep folks away who would otherwise play a lot, and buy a lot of Aurum items. But without the caps, those same players could be a type of albatross that shows no return on investment for CCP. At the same time, the caps could attract other players with the incentive that they will stay relatively even with the hardcore players, and those former-type players are potentially also more likely to buy Aurum items as a way to "keep up with the Joneses."

I'm not an economist, by any means. But it wouldn't surprise me one bit if just about everything CCP does has the singular goal of generating profit at some point for CCP. And, I suppose, that's necessary in order to keep Dust up and running.

We actually need a daily cap to appease the hardcore gamers so that they won't earn it all in one day then get bored.

But we need a weekly cap to ensure those who don't play everyday that they can catch up.

The solution is the rolling cap, where if you don't play a day/don't hit your cap, the potential left gets added to your cap for the next day.

So if you didn't play monday, on tuesday your SP cap would be 54K. So on and so forth.

Exactly!!
CCP is going to do what results in maximum revenue and a reduction to operating losses such as limiting the time non paying customers are online.

Right, right!, RIGHT!!
Its not like theres this big button called S E A R C H

I am a working person, plus raise two teenagers on my own. It only takes a little over an hour on tough grinds to reach the daily skill cap, so I set that aside as my time once a day. If the SP cap is holding anyone back from playing, there is always Pokemon 0o

Bottom line. If you are a working man or woman you understand other responsibilities come before the game. No one should expect a game to bend to your schedule because you have made your choices and priorities. If anything the skill cap helps the working man because it prevents those with large amounts of free time from getting to big a gap.

If your responsible enough to be a "working man" then this should be a non issue. They do not pospone monday night football if I have to work.

WHHHHAAAAAAAAA??????? troll sarcasm or stupid(that applies for both of you) I just dont know. Incentivising frequent play is a good thing, how ever you need to cap it so that you can have a predictable progression, especially in a long term game such as this one. Once this game is fully running you hopefully wont just be playing for SP but for a myriad of other reasons as well............wait trolls what ever if you really are that dumb good ridance.

Everyone:

By the "working man," I mean those folks GÇö male or female GÇö who have full-time jobs, families to tend to, university classes to focus on and/or other "real life" responsibilies.

These folks probably don't have the time to log into Dust each day to play long enough to reach the daily skill point limit (DSPL). They might be able to log in one or two days out of the week and play for two to four hours per log-in. So, in essence, they're only reaching their DSPL maybe once or twice a week, which means the rest of the week, they're missing out on skill points that are essential to keeping their character(s) in good enough shape to survive long enough on a Dust battlefield to make a positive difference for their team.

The DSPL leaves those folks GÇö and I believe there are quite a few of them in the closed-beta community, with a lot more to come once the open beta hits Tuesday GÇö at a distinct disadvantage. In the long run, that might mean those types of players don't hang around long, which in turn could cost CCP money. After all, a large player base means more opportunities for profit, which is essential to keeping the Dust/EVE online and prosperous.

So, in the interests of both players and CCP, I think the latter would be better served by getting rid of the DSPL, but, at the same time, keeping the *weekly* skill point limit intact.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

Apologies if this point has already been made. I haven't read through the entire thread so it may be redundant.

My personal thoughts on the subject are that daily limits in any MMO are instituted in an attempt to help keep the playing field more level for everyone...especially the 'working man' (or anyone who has a life outside of the game). The reason I see it this way is that limits keeps anyone from building too fast or developing their character much more quickly than others with less play time available.

It may not be the perfect solution, but at least it's something.

In the past, limits weren't implemented into MMOs and everyone could develop their characters as slowly or quickly as they wanted to. This was eventually found to create a huge problem and it's a problem that's become even more widespread nowadays as the ages of gamers is ever increasing. The pre-teens, tweens and teenagers who used to make up the MMO world have grown up and are now into their 20s, 30s and 40s. The time these grown adults have to play games has greatly decreased since their childhood years because of their growing responsibilities and commitments. No longer can most of us sit in front of a PC screen or TV, grinding out for hour after hour...day after day.

This has created a gap among the newer generation of players in their teens and pre-teens and the rest of us who now have full-time jobs, demanding lives, demanding wives and teenage children of our own. The gap in player ages also creates a huge gap in the amount of time that players in different age groups have to spend on the grind in MMOs and other games. It's simply impossible for a 40 year old with only 2-4 hours a day to play to keep up their character development compared to a 19 year old part-timer with 12+ hours a day to play the game.

By limiting the points for everyone the 4 hour/day gamer has more opportunity to keep his character development on par with the kid having 12+ hours/day gaming time available. It's not a perfect solution for every player, but there is no perfect solution possible for each and every person's circumstance...at least no one has designed one yet.

I hope this makes sense to everyone. Limits are put in place to level the playing field...not to create greater imbalance. The only way to level things 100% would be to design limits on an individual/player-by-player basis. That would mean that the 4 hour a day guy would be unlimited on the days he had more time to play, while the 12+ a day player is limited to a few hours every day. Obviously this is an impossibility and the thought of such a design is comical.

As I said, it's not a perfect solution but so far, it's the best one any developer has created and it really does work fairly well I think, for the majority of players, anyway. You might feel like something else would work better for your individual circumstance, and you might be right. But what would be perfect for you would likely be unacceptable for someone else with a different lifestyle and daily schedule. Again, it's just not possible to create a perfect one-size-fits-all solution for character development, but it's definitely a subject that I think most developers highly consider when building MMO games for the wide range of people who play them today.

I salute you for being able to reach the daily cap in an hour or so of gaming. Me? Ha! It's closer to two to three hours ... but, I've never claimed to be a superstar when it comes to FPS. Although I do consider myself to be a rather nice fellow to get along with.

It hurts the married man (I carry the scars). My wife doesn't understand why I feel the need to log on every day. I could catch up on a Sunday when she visits her mother if the cap was a weekly one.