Release the Kraken!!!

Dear god, please stay away from my Flux grenades. They are the only "manly" grenades out there.

haha, like i said it hurts me too because i am an avid flux nade user, even when i roll AR i like using flux because everyone shield tanks like its their job. But look at those numbers and there is no denying that they are out of whack with the rest of the grenades, except perhaps AV nades since we dont know the direct damage value of them yet.

Edit-- Im not asking for this nerf per se im just leaving it their for discussion, i havent even suggested it to Nova Knife yet because i dont want CCP going nuts, but i would like to get opinions from others. Its a shame that we just dont have enough people using flux given the current state of locus use, so its really underrepresented.

flux has been broke forever. I get it you spam flux then use the noob tube. I do the same on my alt because I would be embarrased as a gamer to banter knowing thats how i get my kills.

flux should effect suits or vehicles based on profile size so a flux aka damage scaling. So tanks get full damage while a scout may only lose half its shields. Heavies could lose most (since some have more)

I solve the problem. next item

No the problem is already solved. When an infantry loses all of its shields it is totally different than when a vehicle loses most of its shield. Already the grenade is a lot less 'effective' in the HP damage its done.

Also, an additional downside of the flux grenades is that if you lose your shields and then you die to weapon fire, you can still be injected on the field. With regular grenades thats not an option.

Also, it says they hurt electronics, but can anyone confirm that this actually happens to anything like sensors, shiled modules, or vehicle mods?

Dude, its rock paper scissors. As a logi, I use my flux nades and MD to keep you fast shield scouts and assaults away from me and my HMG heavy. I don't need more of you shooting at us. Go armor tank if you have a problem with flux grenades. Everything has its hard counter. If the team you are playing seems to be anti shield, make sure you have a tank setup ready to respawn with.

This is not your mothers FPS. HTFU.

Dude, its rock paper scissors. As a logi, I use my flux nades and MD to keep you fast shield scouts and assaults away from me and my HMG heavy. I don't need more of you shooting at us. Go armor tank if you have a problem with flux grenades. Everything has its hard counter. If the team you are playing seems to be anti shield, make sure you have a tank setup ready to respawn with.

This is not your mothers FPS. HTFU.

Hey i spent a lot of SP so i could chuck flux and spam "noob" tube. Im not embarrased by it as a squishy logi i want to use the only weapon slot i have to make sure i can "clear out" enemies and rez/rep my buddies. I mean im always yeling back the eff up on comms when im firing it cause i want ppl to run and quake when im around....makes me feel manly darnit.

I do like you're scaled damage idea just not sure if it is doable from a coding aspect if a flux is thrown at a tank with enemies near it as well. Also i think having the variants make it less of an all-purpose shield stripping nade and forces players to be more concious of their flux nade selection.

HTFU? put up a corp contract for 20 mill for imperfects to take then. Wait.. whats that sound yeah it's you STFU. Corp Battle or your just a *****

Want to disagree and provide supporting reasons? Go ahead and we can argue back and forth about it. Saying **** like this proves that you know that "Your weapon/nade combo" Is broken and all you can do is talk **** instead of defend it.

So many players in dust only do one thing or us one weapon and their world revolves around it. Those are the opinions in dust that mean ****

First off beers, its an effective combo and one that makes sense to use, like flux and swarm launcher on a shield tank, or AR/Smg or scout suit and shotty.

I mean if everything became just an AR vs AR battle(not suggesting thats what you want just using as an example) the game would be utterly boring. Yes i want good gunfights but i also want weapon versatility and combinations of weapons/nades/vehicles and everything else. I just want to make sure its done in a balanced manner.

Also using a flux nade follwed by any gun other than LR is a good effective combo and just as good a reason to use them.

But the reason why i made this thread is specifically in how effective that combo is because of the INSANE level of shield damage flux nades currently do.
If that was the point of your previous thread i apoligize for the misinterpretation.

Oh i see it now, yea my response was also meant in a normal manner too. But i try to also play devils advocate and try to help both sides on the argument.

According to your numbers though, a standard grenade will knock out most if not all of the shields of the majority of the community. In fact a standard grenade will knock out all the shields AND do armor damage to most scouts and logis. The Flux, while devastating in shield damage, doesn't really do anything that a standard grenade can't do.

According to your numbers though, a standard grenade will knock out most if not all of the shields of the majority of the community. In fact a standard grenade will knock out all the shields AND do armor damage to most scouts and logis. The Flux, while devastating in shield damage, doesn't really do anything that a standard grenade can't do.

@ beers.

I think you might be wrong about the all or none effect of flux nades, ive had instances of flux nades only doing partial shield damage when at the periphery but perhaps at the very very edge of it(like having a foot just inside breaking the border of the field), given their high level of damage its possible it goes unnoticed since even a poorly tossed nade with the radius is enough to strip away the entire shielding.

Dust Revelations 1:1

"Rock is overpowered, Paper is fine"
-Scissors

Good quote. but like I said when you meet a corp that exclusively runs gallente/amarr combat doctrine people will immediately start griping that Flux grenades are worthless.

they'd ***** in EVE that gallente blasters and rails were OP if they weren't the most difficult weapon types to deploy in their respective classes with anything resembling efficiency.

HTFU? put up a corp contract for 20 mill for imperfects to take then. Wait.. whats that sound yeah it's you STFU. Corp Battle or your just a *****

Its called the meta game.
If weapon A is really powerful and people use it a lot, and there is a weapon B that counters it, then people will start using weapon B to counter weapon A.
So the numbers using weapon A drop and then weapon C is brought in to take care of weapon B.
And it goes like that forever, it keeps the game fresh.

In EVE for example, if people started using armor all the time, then people would switch to explosive ammo, but then armor users focus resistance on explosive so the others resistances are weak.
Then they switch to shields because armor is being countered too much, and it goes on forever.
You see how it works?

Flux grenades have the same diminishing effect bassed on range as locus.

HOWEVER.

Flux grenades START at 1200 EM damage with armor being 100% resistent. they're the happy medium between AV and locus grenades, and they're not exactly OP because if you escape your shields regen a LOT faster than armor ever could. thirty seconds later you're back in the fight at full throttle. this is why mass drivers synergize so well with them. If you can catch 2-3 people with a flux then your mass driver becomes the sandpaper grinder of terror.

but flux are pretty much wasted on heavy dropsuits and armor tanked minmatar logistics suits. they're mostly effective against caldari vehicles, and scout/assault dropsuits.

Once CCP introduces all classes of dropsuit to all races Flux will become a niche toy used via corporation combat doctrine based on most frequently encountered opposition. primarily useful against caldari and minmatar and next to worthless against gallente and amarr.

Flux grenades, are supposed to disable infantry shields with a direct hit. They are working as intended. Armor tanking is a valid counter, so there is no need for the nerf hammer here. Just be glad they don't disrupt all electronics. Imagine your mini map disabled for 10 seconds, or armor reps stop working, etc...

What I'm hearing from the 'leet' Imperfects&co is that they should be allowed to run around in quick shield armor suits AND sit safely at objectives with large numbers all the while expecting their shields to be safe and their expensive suits and high KDR to not be at risk.

My point is the paradigm of this game is an order of magnitude more complicated than other stuff out there. Tactically, grenades make sense against more or less stationary targets. Shield tanks generally have an upper hand in a more mobile, skiddish, and skirmishy combat. Another aspect of Eve that isn't making it into people thick heads here is that things will have REAL VALUE. You can't think that just because you have the best gear you should be more comfortable than 'lame noobs'. In Eve, it really hurts when people lose in game assets worth the relative time an effort value of sometimes hundreds or thousands of real dollars.

When people really start to get the hang of real squad based approaches to things like having off grid scouts for spotting as well as sniping, and doctrinal approaches to combat rather than the brainless 'spawn>maneuver>engage>regroup' approach that is so much more individualistic , you will quickly start to have much more fun.

In Eve, a main thing that keeps the game exciting is that there are constant unpredictable and asymmetric threats to much of what occurs. People wrecklessly flying things worth billions of isk can be lost by others who leverage a few million. The key difference is that engagements are limited by size on either side in Dust.

A 2000 isk suit that can take out a 50000 isk suit with relative ease should not be seen as OP. That 2000 isk should should have at least a soft counter in your squad to keep high value assets from being so vulnerable.

If there is anything that is OP in this game it will be the UVT, as it will be likely that to compete at any decent level you will need that ability.

Im the OP, not an Imperfect, just find myself agreeing with a lot of them on their points. Next didn't say flux grenades were OP. Nor did i specifically ask for them to be nerfed. I simply postulated the idea that it should perhaps be considered and left the thread open to discussion. It seems everyone wants to bring their bias and not even look at the original post in its entirety. Sorry if you have the attention span of a gnat but when i write a thread i makes sure i use those pesky things called Data and Facts.

Fact Flux nades in their current iteration can wipe the shields off of every infantry no matter how tanked they are. I know because i use them in conjunction with MD. Im the one using them not them being used on me so a nerf HURTS ME. I wrote it not aware that their are racial variants in this game (or there will be) that will reduce the effect of flux grenades. I made the post with the data i had available to me at the current level of the build.

I didnt specifically ask for a nerf but rather variation on the flux nades that can be tailored either to infantry or to tanks. I thought it was worthy of discussion. You just saw flux nades in general discussion and assumed it was a QQ thats you're issue. If my post was vague or unclear then i take responsibility and that is my fault.

Yes flux nades are only limited to shields and yes they do a lot of damage so they can wipe entire squad shields which is fine by me i love it when i do and then wipe everyone out with MD fire. But the question is even if it limited to shields should it do that much damage, i think they need the high level for tanks but hence why not make a tank version and an infantry version thus creating more need for tactical awareness and loadout awareness instead a one size fits all shield destroyer.

I havent really used them as I wasnt totally sure of their function. The electronics portion still has me stumpd. Do they destroy deployables or do they turn off vehicle modules?

I havent really used them as I wasnt totally sure of their function. The electronics portion still has me stumpd. Do they destroy deployables or do they turn off vehicle modules?

A few notes on Flux Grenades.
Used in the current playfield, where everybody is out in the open and rarely using cover, an entire discipline of tanking is rendered obsolete. It becomes an "armor-tank or die" game. And that will only stifle the "improve yourself your own way" that this game is supposed to support. Well, until the Locus comes in and brings you to near-death no matter what tank you chose... But that's another story.
The fluxes we use now should use AV behavior, not do as much to infantry, and affect armor to a lesser extent. Why? because EM damage hurts armor in New Eden, just against higher resistance.

As for infantry? Well, the Locus should be an anti-armor, explosive damage grenade. Infantry shields would resist the grenade, but an armor-tank will be creamed. a new Anti-infantry version of the Flux would do the opposite, taking down shield-tanks while letting armor survive.
The end result is that, when grenades start flying, both tanking styles are out of luck, as opposed to one having a chance over the other. The difference for the thrower is whether to start firing before or after.

no. flux grenades ONLY pop shields. Anything more and I'd be screaming that they were effing OP and mystified why more people don't use them.

flux has been broke forever. I get it you spam flux then use the noob tube. I do the same on my alt because I would be embarrased as a gamer to banter knowing thats how i get my kills.

flux should effect suits or vehicles based on profile size so a flux aka damage scaling. So tanks get full damage while a scout may only lose half its shields. Heavies could lose most (since some have more)

I solve the problem. next item

Another way of seeing it...shields are projectile and explosive resistance. As far as shields go, the best counter to flux grenades is not having a bigger buffer tank, it's having a shorter time before your shield recharges.

Think of this shield tank in terms of damage it can take in a minute of skirmishing. Shield tanks jump into fire, apply damage, and jump out, recharge reload, and engage. When a shield reps at 25 hp/s normally after< 5s after damage or 10sec after exhaustion. For a 125 hp shield that could be seen at least 500 HP in a minute if exhausted 4 times. It could tank upwards of 750 HP in a min if you get out of battle before losing all shields. An militia armor tank at best will tank under 700 armor in a minute, while less mobile. It can do more with a logi, but so can anyone.

Regulators and rechargers improve this. A bigger buffer will defend against an alpha hit, but if you can take the first couple seconds of damage and avoid more damage these modules will pay off in HP tanked per minute than a buffer.