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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
   |
Posted - 2013.01.09 23:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
First Wave
Concept open to debate and review, input of other D514 vets welcome.
Data Current as of Chromosome build
First a warning: If you desire to make a new Corporation do not do so on your main character. There are three character slots per account, dedicate one of your alts to being the head of the Corp you wish to create so that the ISK and SP costs of creating and maintaining a Corp don't cost you valuable resources on the character you play.
The following 'core' skills are presented as a reference for players new to the game who wish to invest their Skill Points without any 'wasted' while deciding on a role/specialization.
Note: Guide does not assume the presence/use of AUR.
Note2: This is an Infantry guide. While some of it will pertain to drivers/pilots it should not be assumed to be fully applicable.
Note3: Categories below are defined by effect, not labeled as you will find them within the market/skill tab.
Fitting
- Circuitry (Increased CPU)
- Combat Engineering (Increased PG)
- Dropsuit Command (Unlocks specific dropsuit skills, Lowers Profile)
Defense/HP
- Shield Boost Systems (Increased Shield recharge rate; Unlocks Shield control)
- Shield control (Increased total Shields)
- Field Mechanics (Increased total Armor)
Offensive Skills
- Weaponry (Increases handheld weapon damage)
Mobility
- Vigor (Increases Stamina & Stamina recovery rate)
Cheers,
Cross
Please note, as the game is a work in progress this post will continue to change as well. If you find comments in this thread which do not seem to apply to the current content of the OP it is likely that I have updated in response to their input. I welcome and encourage feedback on this thread from players both new and old alike. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 23:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Second Wave
These skills are highly recommended but more selective/specialized in their value. Level them when you have a sense of your chosen role on the battlefield.
Note1: The following list is presented as a collection of generally useful skills. Skills omitted are not to be considered useless, nor is directly training all skills present in the following list to be construed as an optimized plan for specialized battlefield roles. Use of this list should however provide a solid level of utility regardless of chosen specialization/role thus avoiding any superfluous (i.e. "wasted") skill point expenditures.
Note2: Shield Extenders and Armor Plates are often considered "either/or" investments. While I use both it is a less common practice and SP can be saved by choosing one or the other to focus on.
Note3: Skills associated with equipment are not to be considered useful for a dedicated Heavy player as the heavy dropsuit line provides no equipment slots.
Fitting
- Light/Heavy Weapon Upgrade (reduction in weapon CPU cost)
- Light/Heavy Weapon Upgrade Proficiency (reduction in weapon CPU cost)
- Chosen Dropsuit (raise to level 3)
Defense/HP
- Dropsuit Command (Finish leveling to 5 for decreased Profile)
- Profile Dampening (Lowers Profile)
- Shield Enhancements (Unlocks Shield Extender)
- Armor Upgrades (Unlocks Armor Plates)
Offensive Skills
- Chosen Weapon (Effect varies by weapon)
- Grenade (Unlocks higher meta variants including Flux and AV)
- Demolitions (Unlocks Remote Explosives, both AV and anti-personnel)
Mobility
- Hacking (Increased control of spawn locations, faster hack speeds = continued movement)
- Drop Uplink Deployment (Increased number of spawn locations, Map control = tactical flexibility)
- Mobility (Unlocks mods to increase speed)
- Endurance (Increases Stamina)
Restorative
- Nanocircuitry (Unlocks Nanoinjectors and Nanohives)
- Remote Repair Systems (Unlocks Repair Tools <-- Repair friendlies for points)
- Armor Repair Systems (Unlocks Armor Repairer <-- Repairs self, Upgrades effects of Armor Repairer)
|
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 23:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
AUR, BPOs and You
Consideration of the utility of BPOs and AUR expenditures generally. (Topics covered will not include the relative real world monetary value of any given item/purchase. Thread shall remain focused solely on in game economics & value).
***post coming soon***
EDIT: continued flux in market items available and the price of said items has delayed this post. |
Sytonis Auran
Valor Coalition
RISE of LEGION
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 00:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Good idea Cross. Feedback:
I would remove Endurance as its not as cost effective SP wise as Vigor, which is also a *3 skill. Slightly pedantic, but dropsuit command isn't a fitting skill.
I feel grenedier should be added to offense too.
If this is basic, then shield enhancement and (insert weapon category) enhancement could then be added to next advanced fitting. |
RECON BY FIRE
BetaMax.
51
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 04:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Are speed enhancement mods common on yalls assault fittings? Id personally consider that more of a specialization for scout suits using shotguns, nova knives, etc. As such I feel like Mobility should be removed from the list. Shield enhancement should probably be added as Sytonis pointed out. Also light weapon upgrade, reload, sharpshooter, and whatever the plus to total ammo one is. Would the sensor upgrade skills (profile dampening, etc) be considered a core skill or a specialization? |
Free Healing
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 05:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
A Core skill is actually a Skill that has a (x1) next to it and are the easiest to skill up.
Speed enhancements are more valuable than most players realize. I won't give away any secrets 
Light Weapon upgrades are NOT universal since they are only for Light Weapons. They do not translate to certain Dropsuit types.
Sensor Upgrades could be considered important but not universal or beneficial to all.
Keep the faith. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 14:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
How about if I add a sub section for "widely useful but not quite universal skills" or for secondary skills?
I'm attempting to keep it as general as possible at this stage since once someone knows what role they'll play figuring out things like what weapon to use etc becomes easier, also there are guides for specific roles so why reinvent the wheel?
Thoughts?
Cheers,
Cross |
Sytonis Auran
Valor Coalition
RISE of LEGION
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 22:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
With regards to the stamina skills, I take them for the stamina gain and not to unlock mods. If core skills are mainly *1 skills, then the speed skills on that basis shouldn't be there as they are *3.
Cross, I would call this basic core, just because they are universal. Drop the *1 prerequisite. Just solid skills all suits will benefit from. You could then do advanced core skills that take into account equipment etc. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 00:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'd put Nanocircuitry in there too as at just level 1 it allows both the injector and hive at basic level which are bothe very cheap and much less rezource hungry than the militia versions allowing more scope to fittings ...
Though again this is no use for heavy class.
Also you could use one of your reserved replies for a list of the AUR BPO modules worth investing in if they have some AUR ... it onoy costs a few hundred for shield extender, armor rep, injector, hive, damage mods, ... anyone with others to add ? |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
140
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 12:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Free Healing wrote:A Core skill is actually a Skill that has a (x1) next to it and are the easiest to skill up. Speed enhancements are more valuable than most players realize. I won't give away any secrets Light Weapon upgrades are NOT universal since they are only for Light Weapons. They do not translate to certain Dropsuit types. Sensor Upgrades could be considered important but not universal or beneficial to all. Keep the faith.
Your in the training ground and wish to keep your secrets to your self? GTFO. And dont say stupid contradicting ****. |
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ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
197
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 16:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
First thing i did without even a thought needed was to get Weaponry V. 10% bonus to all weapons... has anyone NOT done it???
Next up is fitting and shield/armor buffer skills. Again useful for everything. I would say at least Lv3 to start with
After that is when i would say to start specializing. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 22:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Guinevere Bravo wrote:Free Healing wrote:A Core skill is actually a Skill that has a (x1) next to it and are the easiest to skill up. Speed enhancements are more valuable than most players realize. I won't give away any secrets Light Weapon upgrades are NOT universal since they are only for Light Weapons. They do not translate to certain Dropsuit types. Sensor Upgrades could be considered important but not universal or beneficial to all. Keep the faith. Your in the training ground and wish to keep your secrets to your self? GTFO. And dont say stupid contradicting ****.
not that hard to figure out. Faster moving targets are harder to hit and can overrun enemy positions with alarming frequency and speed. Minmatar standard tactic, utilizes complex kinetic catalyzers ideally.
On a scout suit the speed boost becomes insane, Minmatar logi can also stack a lot of catalyzers and become stupid-fast. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 23:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote: As such I feel like Mobility should be removed from the list.
Speed Kills. Nowhere is this more self-evident than a fatsuit rapidly deploying himself to enemy hotspots in a freebie LAV.
The faster you can put resources on target the less time the enemy has to react. Minmatar suits are going to give you nightmares when they come out if you don't consider mobility a factor. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 03:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
@Needless Sacermendor,
Good idea thanks for bringing it up, I'll make that the topic of my third post.
Cheers,
Cross |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Welcome to all our new players, I hope this post provides some useful information.
Cheers,
Cross |
Free Healing
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Guinevere Bravo wrote:Free Healing wrote:A Core skill is actually a Skill that has a (x1) next to it and are the easiest to skill up. Speed enhancements are more valuable than most players realize. I won't give away any secrets Light Weapon upgrades are NOT universal since they are only for Light Weapons. They do not translate to certain Dropsuit types. Sensor Upgrades could be considered important but not universal or beneficial to all. Keep the faith. Your in the training ground and wish to keep your secrets to your self? GTFO. And dont say stupid contradicting ****. not that hard to figure out. Faster moving targets are harder to hit and can overrun enemy positions with alarming frequency and speed. Minmatar standard tactic, utilizes complex kinetic catalyzers ideally. On a scout suit the speed boost becomes insane, Minmatar logi can also stack a lot of catalyzers and become stupid-fast.
@Guinevere -
My post regarding secrets was primarily a joke. Originally it was supposed to get people wondering what secrets could lie in Speed and Stamina modules and create Intrigue and encourage testing. As Breaking Stuff said, figuring out how they could be useful isn't that hard, just have to use your imagination a little.
I fail to see how anything i put in that post is contradictory. Maybe you wandered into this post after Cross updated the main post so it looked like what i was saying didn't mean anything, i'm not sure, but i'd gladly listen to what you think i said was "contradicting ****".
Keep the faith. |
Drunkscotsman
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 11:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
I was just wondering. What does power grid and cpu do? |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 16:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Drunkscotsman wrote:I was just wondering. What does power grid and cpu do?
Power grid and CPU are both attributes of your chosen dropsuit (or vehicle for that matter).
Every weapon or mod you fit into a slot on your suit carries with it a PG and CPU cost.
The combined cost of all weapons and mods you fit to a suit must be equal to or less than the total PG and CPU of that suit (otherwise the fitting is marked as invalid and you won't be able to deploy it to the battlefield).
On a related topic, there are mods that can be fit to increase PG or CPU, however they take up fitting slots which can be used for other things (such as increasing your damage or HP) so use of skills to increase your PG/CPU is ideal as it leaves you more slots to use for customizing your fitting.
Cheers,
Cross |
Perseus Gallento
Mikwon Dynamics
12
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:
Armor Repair Systems (Unlocks Armor Repairer <-- Repairs self, Upgrades effects of Armor Repairer)
Has the underlined statement been confirmed? I was wondering... |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Perseus Gallento wrote:Cross Atu wrote:
Armor Repair Systems (Unlocks Armor Repairer <-- Repairs self, Upgrades effects of Armor Repairer)
Has the underlined statement been confirmed? I was wondering...
Thanks for reading, in answer to your question I present the following.
From the in game skill text
Quote:+3% armor repair rate per level
Meaning that at level 5 of the skill any armor repair mod that you use will cycle (and thus repair) 15% faster.
Cheers, 
Cross |
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Perseus Gallento
Mikwon Dynamics
12
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Regarding Speed Skills:
not that hard to figure out. Faster moving targets are harder to hit and can overrun enemy positions with alarming frequency and speed. Minmatar standard tactic, utilizes complex kinetic catalyzers ideally.
On a scout suit the speed boost becomes insane, Minmatar logi can also stack a lot of catalyzers and become stupid-fast.
Case in point: Try going up against Annie Oakley in her Uber Fast Scout Suit wielding a shotty. OMG! Like trying to catch a fly with chopsticks. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 23:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
^Oh yes, the Shotgun twins are a deadly example of how speed kills. So much so that I've heard a few people question whether or not they're hacking somehow (having squaded with them I can say with confidence that they are not, which doesn't make them any easier to deal with ) |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 16:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
bump |
Chankk Saotome
CrimeWave Syndicate
169
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 02:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
As always Cross, on the ball here with REAL core skills the newbloods need to have.
Passive defensive
Passive offensive
and Fitting elements (upgraded suit PG/CPU, lowered PG/CPU usage)
But one error I note:
Cross Atu wrote:Vigor (Increases Stamina & Stamina recovery rate)
Vigor increases STA regen
Endurance increases base STA
Brutal that it's split between two skills so it's a tough call as to which is better.
For speedsters Vigor (the Regen) is probably more important but for logis and fattys just having the STA to run with your team is more and thus Endurance for us slower, heavier guys, is more vital in my opinion. If Speedy Gonzales runs out of range of my repper, that's his fault. Especially for logi, having that extra 10m of running time can save lives. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Chankk Saotome wrote:As always Cross, on the ball here with REAL core skills the newbloods need to have. Passive defensive Passive offensive and Fitting elements (upgraded suit PG/CPU, lowered PG/CPU usage) But one error I note: Cross Atu wrote:Vigor (Increases Stamina & Stamina recovery rate) Vigor increases STA regen Endurance increases base STA Brutal that it's split between two skills so it's a tough call as to which is better. For speedsters Vigor (the Regen) is probably more important but for logis and fattys just having the STA to run with your team is more and thus Endurance for us slower, heavier guys, is more vital in my opinion. If Speedy Gonzales runs out of range of my repper, that's his fault. Especially for logi, having that extra 10m of running time can save lives.
First, thanks for the response, and for your work on the skill calc (for those who haven't seen it, check it out).
Secondly my listing for Vigor is accurate. Your description was indeed correct until CCP altered it a little while back.
As of this posting Vigor increases both total stamina and rate of regeneration, while Endurance still raises only total stamina. They are also still both (3x) skills, along with Mobility.
At present the most effective method for leveling the three up would be Vigor L5 > Endurance L5 > Mobility L5.
Thanks again for the response 
Cheers,
Cross |
Chankk Saotome
CrimeWave Syndicate
170
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Derp, I feel like an ass now. Sorry Cross and thanks. I wonder if that's connected to the Cardiac Regulator and Stimulant also being combined into a single module (which I didn't even realize until just last week).
I have to go through and read all the skill descriptions and details again.
___________
A strong man can do many things,
But the strongest knows he can't do everything alone. |
Israckcatarac
Opus Arcana
Orion Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 00:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mobility, Mobility,Mobility,Mobility, The mods are broken so they affect not only sprint speed but base speed you get to zoom left, right,back,forward and up at insane speed's making the target near to impossible to hit. You wanted to know the super secrets of the best players out there there ya have it. |
Alderstaz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 01:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
I wish someone had told me to get grenade 1 and nanohive 2 so I would be carrying 3 of each. They make a big difference, more than tweaking the core skills will. At beginning. Biggest bang for KDR, after not doing stupid things. I saw how AR was much better than its militia version, but didnt realize you will carry above two for thousands and thousands of clones too. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
832
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 22:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
In light of Planetary Conquest I highly encourage players to take note of the following
Defense skills are your friends, clones are going to cost ISK meaning that the new cost per death (CDR matters infinitely more than KDR). The quick and dirty is that (if things stay as initial information suggests) each clone will cost you more than your high level gear. So if you plan to participate in holding turf and building a Corp then make sure you can stay alive, otherwise you're looking at going broke in a hurry.
Cheers,
Cross |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
153
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 00:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:So if you plan to participate in holding turf and building a Corp then make sure you can stay alive, otherwise you're looking at going broke in a hurry.
I'd rather win and lose a few clones. Losing because I was worried about dying means I shouldn't have gone to the fight at all. If noobs can't make any money from PC, they should just stick to pub matches until they get better.
CCP might give them something bigger corps don't care about, I don't know.
Fight to win, or don't fight at all. |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
833
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 05:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
0 Try Harder wrote:Cross Atu wrote:So if you plan to participate in holding turf and building a Corp then make sure you can stay alive, otherwise you're looking at going broke in a hurry. I'd rather win and lose a few clones. Losing because I was worried about dying means I shouldn't have gone to the fight at all. If noobs can't make any money from PC, they should just stick to pub matches until they get better. CCP might give them something bigger corps don't care about, I don't know. Fight to win, or don't fight at all.
0 I think you misunderstand the point of my post.
Related info:
Dev Blog
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/planetary-conquest/
CCP Wiki
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest
Clone Price
Biomass per damaged clone 50,000 ISK
Clone sold from district 100,000 ISK
Clone bought from Genolution 200,000 ISK
In short clones will now cost ISK, not just fittings. And anyone who plays consistently at an ISK loss is losing, sure they may win a few battles but they will lose the war. As such it's important for new players to be made aware that the KDR focused "glass cannon" builds which are viable within some other shooters aren't going to work long term in Dust and to plan accordingly by getting the most out of each clone and piece of gear. Which in turn means leveling up defense and support skills. After all it doesn't matter how good your KDR is if you're losing ISK match by match eventually you won't have a clone to spawn into.
0.02 ISK
Cross |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
153
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 05:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
I did not miss your point. 200k isk is nothing, and people already run around in suits that cost 200k isk.
But it's nice to know that some people care about their CDR. All it means is that if I fight you, I just have to kill you a couple of times and you'll run away :>
But seriously, fight to win or don't fight at all. Also, high level gear costs more than a clone. It's over 200k isk, and you won't be anywhere near that with most of the clones that you use.
The districts we are fighting for give money too, so fighting at a loss of isk initially can lead to a gain in isk later on.
I have no respect for the people who run away and drop out of a battle, especially if it's a battle you committed to. If you lose money, you lose money. Go do pub matches in a free suit to earn it back if you have to.
From an EVE or other MMO standpoint, that might be fine. From my standpoint, it's not. The people I see who do that lose every time. You probably meant something else, or didn't expect it to be taken that way, but there you go.
And I don't understand why you dislike the "glass cannon" builds anyways. People do it because it works. Most players who do it also make a lot of ISK. Just because some people have trouble with it does not mean that it's a terrible setup, and/or should not be used.
I guess I should make my own guide for what I think noobs should do and stop commenting here :P lol |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
834
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 05:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'm not sure how saying "fight to win or don't fight at all" makes any sense. How is leveling up your core/support skills to maximize the effect gained from the gear you field not fighting to win?
For that matter how is keeping track of the cost per death (fits + clones) not fighting to win?
Getting a whole lot of kills while still running at an average loss isn't a winning tactic. Sure holding ground can making you some ISK but relying on that to offset poor overall play (i.e. losing more than you bring in) doesn't make any sense either.
Keeping track of CDR is about assessment and adaptation, not "running away". It's maximizing possible effect/rewards vs risks taken on. Zerging a specific objective while being killed over and over again isn't effective nor desirable and it doesn't often get the job done.
The point I'm making is about resource management and gear maximization I have no idea where all your talk about dropping battles and running away is coming from that has zero to do with what I'm talking about and since you keep bringing it up I have to keep wondering (despite your assertions to the contrary) if you've understood my posts at all.
Many Corps (my own included) plan to provide fittings support for conquest and contract battles once CCP enables that aspect of the game, I mention this because it's a source of much of my objection to glass cannon builds. Granted there are a few players who can make them work, I'm not disputing that but it's not the average. More commonly a glass cannon build results in either A) a player spending lots of ISK/SP only to find frustration as their high expense fit is burned down in moments by an opportunistic attack from a militia weapon. or B) a player who misconceives themselves as being "successful" because their in match KDR is high, even though they are running at an average loss match by match when it comes to ISK.
Neither A nor B is something which an effective Corp wants to be funding, nor is it on balance valuable tactical behavior. Simply because the select few can make that work doesn't mean it's something which should be advocated to new players, more often than not it's throwing good ISK after bad.
In any event, just so there's no confusion, I do not nor have I at any point advocated dropping from matches or abandoning the field without a fight even in a pub match (much less within a more significant context). I do know however that playing to win isn't equal to spending lots of ISK. I've had games where I go 20/2 or better, I've had games where I go 2/14 or worse but in both cases I earn over 1500 WP, I stay in the black on ISK and I keep the pressure on throughout the game win or lose.
Use the right tool for the right job, and the right tool isn't always the most expensive gun on the market.
0.02 ISK
Cross
ps ~ You are of course entitled to your own tactical outlook and if yours differs fundamentally from what I've presented here then by all means create a guide of your own with your reasons and let the new players read both and use whatever they like from either/both |
Ten Wolves
Penumbra Military Industrial Complex
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 15:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
This was very help full, thanks. |
Michael Arck
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 05:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Great read. Thanks alot for your work Cross. I needed to learn some things |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
885
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 06:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
@Ten and Michael, I'm glad it was helpful. Welcome to New Eden (oh and an aside for those who don't play EVE, usually when that phrase is used something bad has happened to someone, I simply enjoy employing it sometimes in a less sarcastic context)
Cheers,
Cross |
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