Look today I played against Exmaple, considered to be one of the best heavies by many. I killed him with 2 militia nades. Honestly, I won't have even tried tossing nades, but I was pinned down by snipers, and had no shields.

As a heavy, 1v1'ing another heavy is something I love doing, but imagine I killed one of the best with 2 MILITIA NADES. That's just wrong. The timer on these nades, or the dmg or maybe both, makes nades a more viable option than shooting your gun! I thought this is First Person SHOOTER

Should be a First Person Nader at the rate it's going tbh.

Don't know how to balance it. Maybe less starting nades, nerf militia nades to 200-300dmg, actually have a timer on the nades maybe...like nades usually are unless they are designed to explode on impact.

I'm not QQing about the matter, it's just so predictable now.

Give me Flack Jacket Pro CCP!

throwing grenades to soften up targets makes excellent tactical sense. Welcome to DUST 514, we do not judge you by your elite skills with an AR. you will be judged by your ability to lead or support your teams to victory. The EVE corp hiring you to rip a planet away from TEST alliance isn't going to accept "But I got a 30-0 KD ratio" if that 30-0 ratio does not net them a victory.

This is what you "skill bandits" who insist on showing off how good you are fail to understand. The objective in DUST is victory over your enemy. If Victory means you must use tactics to make life easier and kill faster then I suggest you use it.

If a EVE corp hires your hundred man corp to take out a planet for 100 million ISK (pocket change) then you better not come back with a loss saying "but they were spamming grenades."

Their response will be "learn to throw grenades you idiot!"

I **** you not. Start focusing on WINNING, because the best payouts will come from Nullsec alliances who like it when you whup the crap out of their enemies, and will shower you with proto fits if you do. If you can't then stay in Hisec with the newbs. That's all you'll be considered good for.

your response to throwing nades is learn to throw nades ourselves. Gee i cant believe in the vast amount of people posting you're the first to think of that. It is so utterly brilliant in its simplicity you sir are a genius!

NVM the core complaint isnt the tactic but the efficacy at which it works with the most basic of gear(militia locus). NVM that it has no become a defacto tactic in all CQC combat and its efficacy is directly tied to the shorten 2s contact timer. I am all for suicide tactics pulling the pin on a nade as you die is fine by me but in no other situation other than this game does it not only give me little time to react, it doesnt even give me the option to toss those nades away, a perfectly reasonable counter tactic if made available to us. Not everyone who critiques the current state of nades is a KDR W hore, i know im certainly not. But the fact that you can spam any nade and it will go off in 2s is absolutely ridiculous to the point of taking away any real "skill" "thought" "effort" or "strategy" beyond hail mary mother full of grace nonsense.

You say its a perfectly reasonable to soften up a person with nades, i dont disagree i do them with flux nades all the time. What im saying is they should not be working with this level of efficacy in the basic model, which mean they either need to change the fuse mechanism back to a cook it to desire time delay, or reduce damage/radius of basic militia variant. Furthermore a 2s contact if avaialbe should be a higher tier variant given how effective they are.

You can say im QQing all you want. Ive given you more than ample reasoned and rationale points, now go ahead and tell me how any of the changes i suggest would violate your ability to "soften" me up before going for the kill other than oh crap im almost dead let me chuck 2 out and hope i get you.

Edit- With regards to you saying its useful tactic, if its really a tactic that one thinks of using then surely if the nade had to be cooked to achieve the 2s delay in explosion you couldnt say it takes anything away from the tactic, the only thing it takes away is your "saftey valve" in case things go awry and not the way you expected in the encounter, if its a tactic that you're actually thinking of using then surely you would have noted where there were cover point were you could quickly strage into cook your nade and strafe back out and toss it right?

Gun on Gun action in this beta has been the most boring thing I've ever experienced in any FPS from day one! Of course I know this isn't the OP complaint, but just something I wanted to point out.

As far as the nade spamming goes...meh...haven't noticed it all that much myself. But then, I'm usually constantly on the move, running toward or away from the enemy while trying to strafe at the same time, so maybe I'm just avoiding the nades...don't really know.

I do hope they start working on making the gun action a little more exciting soon. It's been 6 months and IMO the gun game is just as boring today as it was the first time I played. Needs more indication that you're being hit and more notification that you're close to death...something to give you the feeling of urgency. The way it is now (and always has been) I hardly even notice I'm being hit by bullets and then just drop over dead...seemingly out of the blue.

Another thing I think needs improved upon here (and I'm still low level so maybe it's better with higher ranked weapons) is the ARs. Most weapons in the game are highly deadly (even at this level), yet my trusty AR feels like shooting a BB gun, it takes so many bullets to kill someone. I don't have nearly as difficult a time killing my enemies with other weapons but it takes some fancy footwork to stay alive long enough to land enough AR bullets to kill my enemies in a 1 on 1.

Nade spamming has always been here....I created a thread calling this game a First Person Grenader in Codex. It's worse now with mass drivers

If you cook it too long it explodes in your hand. I tested this. But no, my response is not L2throw, it's more it's pointless arguing that it's unfair. My usual tactic with nades is to lob flux like party favors and shoot whoever has their shields down.

cooking nades is why the timers are so short. My nades don't go off fast enough that people don't frequently dodge them, at least with locus. Also if you skill in, the blast radius extends outward making it hard to dodge. THAT, more than timers would be the issue here. I have grenadier 1, someone with grenadier 5 should be someone to fear but I also maniac tank my fits so one nade usually can't get me without being shot a lot first.

Civil War was pretty much one of the last ones fought standing in opposing lines.