|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
   |
Posted - 2013.01.01 19:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Lol. Look at all these losers who get spammed by nades.
Srsly.
You should be happy people are "spamming" nades. Why? Because you can shoot a hole through their armor as they're pulling back to launch it or as they're cooking it.
If ppl had to actually cook them before they got such a quick detonation it wouldnt be an issue for the exact reason you mention. As it is now ppl just spam nades two at a time QUICK TOSS because they blow up inside of 2s on contact with an object.
What this results in the oh crap im about a bullet away from death let me quick toss 2 nades and hope i get lucky.
Look at flux nades, i cant just throw them out and hope i blow up the shileds unless i cook them. They dont blow up in 2s on contact(i could be wrong about that ill have to double check) I think the delay is closer to 4 maybe 5 seconds. Unless i cook them that's how all nades should work.
My gripe is that is the 2s on contact fuse that is the default on all locus nades. I think that should be a variant not the standard. I also think the free militia nades should either be a bit weaker or have a smaller radius to make the adv/proto nades even worth the purchase cost, o/w there is no point to the other variants given the effectiveness of the militia variants. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 23:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:throwing grenades to soften up targets makes excellent tactical sense. Welcome to DUST 514, we do not judge you by your elite skills with an AR. you will be judged by your ability to lead or support your teams to victory. The EVE corp hiring you to rip a planet away from TEST alliance isn't going to accept "But I got a 30-0 KD ratio" if that 30-0 ratio does not net them a victory.
This is what you "skill bandits" who insist on showing off how good you are fail to understand. The objective in DUST is victory over your enemy. If Victory means you must use tactics to make life easier and kill faster then I suggest you use it.
If a EVE corp hires your hundred man corp to take out a planet for 100 million ISK (pocket change) then you better not come back with a loss saying "but they were spamming grenades."
Their response will be "learn to throw grenades you idiot!"
I **** you not. Start focusing on WINNING, because the best payouts will come from Nullsec alliances who like it when you whup the crap out of their enemies, and will shower you with proto fits if you do. If you can't then stay in Hisec with the newbs. That's all you'll be considered good for.
your response to throwing nades is learn to throw nades ourselves. Gee i cant believe in the vast amount of people posting you're the first to think of that. It is so utterly brilliant in its simplicity you sir are a genius!
NVM the core complaint isnt the tactic but the efficacy at which it works with the most basic of gear(militia locus). NVM that it has no become a defacto tactic in all CQC combat and its efficacy is directly tied to the shorten 2s contact timer. I am all for suicide tactics pulling the pin on a nade as you die is fine by me but in no other situation other than this game does it not only give me little time to react, it doesnt even give me the option to toss those nades away, a perfectly reasonable counter tactic if made available to us. Not everyone who critiques the current state of nades is a KDR W hore, i know im certainly not. But the fact that you can spam any nade and it will go off in 2s is absolutely ridiculous to the point of taking away any real "skill" "thought" "effort" or "strategy" beyond hail mary mother full of grace nonsense.
You say its a perfectly reasonable to soften up a person with nades, i dont disagree i do them with flux nades all the time. What im saying is they should not be working with this level of efficacy in the basic model, which mean they either need to change the fuse mechanism back to a cook it to desire time delay, or reduce damage/radius of basic militia variant. Furthermore a 2s contact if avaialbe should be a higher tier variant given how effective they are.
You can say im QQing all you want. Ive given you more than ample reasoned and rationale points, now go ahead and tell me how any of the changes i suggest would violate your ability to "soften" me up before going for the kill other than oh crap im almost dead let me chuck 2 out and hope i get you.
Edit- With regards to you saying its useful tactic, if its really a tactic that one thinks of using then surely if the nade had to be cooked to achieve the 2s delay in explosion you couldnt say it takes anything away from the tactic, the only thing it takes away is your "saftey valve" in case things go awry and not the way you expected in the encounter, if its a tactic that you're actually thinking of using then surely you would have noted where there were cover point were you could quickly strage into cook your nade and strafe back out and toss it right? |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 01:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
If you cook it too long it explodes in your hand. I tested this. But no, my response is not L2throw, it's more it's pointless arguing that it's unfair. My usual tactic with nades is to lob flux like party favors and shoot whoever has their shields down.
cooking nades is why the timers are so short. My nades don't go off fast enough that people don't frequently dodge them, at least with locus. Also if you skill in, the blast radius extends outward making it hard to dodge. THAT, more than timers would be the issue here. I have grenadier 1, someone with grenadier 5 should be someone to fear but I also maniac tank my fits so one nade usually can't get me without being shot a lot first.
No cooking nades are not why the timers are so short. Quick toss a locus and you see it blows up in 2s after it lands everytime. All cooking does is potentially causes the explosion before impact. Which is why one will toss the nade to the floor knowing it will often slide to range and blow up.
No i admit part of the issue is that nades icon doesnt always appear on your hud. Sometimes they do but its very sporadic. But still the timer is indeed a part of the issue, but i do agree that grenadier skill does and could play a part of the issue and could confound it.
But this is the main issue of all the nerfing that everone wants. It seems people expect and want a weapon to be effective simply because they have the skill specced to use it. Problem with this is that when you start adding SP into that catergory they become even more powerful to the point where it effects the balance.
The other way to deal with it is that the items have a much lower efficacy at their base level so they wont be all that effective, they will be decent but not produce the results you expect until you start speccing into the ability so that as people increase in the skill the item in question becomes more and more useful without destroying balance.
Problem with this is the FPSer will say that a weapon should work and do damage when i unlock it and that they shouldnt have to skill it further to make it "better" or "work".
In most FPS game when you level up you unlock new more powerful items to use, in this game leveling up not only gives you more powerful items but you can also make them more powerful by skilling into them. This is what throws the "balance" off but this is the RPG aspect of the game.
Your two options are to have weaker items that become stronger as you skill into them or you have good "competitive" items at the beginning that will get even stronger and stronger as you skill into them potentially throwing off "balance" but i say that "balance" isn't the result of disparity in the weapons but disparity in SP allocation b/w 2 people(RPG).
Regardless still think the 2s fuse upon contact is too brief and should be closer to 4-5s unless cooked.
|
|
|
| |
|