DUST Search - SP, how they could fix it PERFECTLY

Marston EV wrote:

The thing that would make the current system PERFECT in my opinion would be a "minimum SP gain Cap" so let me elaborate on what this means and why it would bring perfect balance to what things are like now.

Currently when you hit the SP cap, your SP gains steadily decrease from 10k to 5k, 1k, then 10...... per match. What they need to do is put a floor on the deminshing returns. or in another words they should make it so that you CANT make less then 1k - 2.5k SP per match (if your doing well obviously).

The reason this is a good idea is because it would slow down the hardcore players enough so that they can still make an extra 10 - 20k SP a day if they GRIND for it, but theres not way they could possibly make huge leaps ahead of there casual counterparts. Now the idea is simple, but its not perfect. To keep this from becoming an exploit CCP would have to make it so that you have to particapate in battle to some extent in order to get the full 1000-2500 SP, perhaps they could tie it down to how many WP you make in a match but that would be up for them to decide.

Another completely seperate idea would be to just give us as many SP as we make WP in a match as a minimum to earn. If i make 3000 WP in a match doesn't that mean i should deserve atleast that many SP??? I mean this idea is less ideal then the last one because it favors hardcore players more but its still a decent idea.

ultimately im not sure if CCP will use either of these ideas but really the whole point of them is to make it not seem like a WASTE OF TIME playing this game after you hit the cap...... so any thoughts on this guys???

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Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.12.25 05:15:00 - [1] - Quote The thing that would make the current system PERFECT in my opinion would be a "minimum SP gain Cap" so let me elaborate on what this means and why it would bring perfect balance to what things are like now. Currently when you hit the SP cap, your SP gains steadily decrease from 10k to 5k, 1k, then 10...... per match. What they need to do is put a floor on the deminshing returns. or in another words they should make it so that you CANT make less then 1k - 2.5k SP per match (if your doing well obviously). The reason this is a good idea is because it would slow down the hardcore players enough so that they can still make an extra 10 - 20k SP a day if they GRIND for it, but theres not way they could possibly make huge leaps ahead of there casual counterparts. Now the idea is simple, but its not perfect. To keep this from becoming an exploit CCP would have to make it so that you have to particapate in battle to some extent in order to get the full 1000-2500 SP, perhaps they could tie it down to how many WP you make in a match but that would be up for them to decide. Another completely seperate idea would be to just give us as many SP as we make WP in a match as a minimum to earn. If i make 3000 WP in a match doesn't that mean i should deserve atleast that many SP??? I mean this idea is less ideal then the last one because it favors hardcore players more but its still a decent idea. ultimately im not sure if CCP will use either of these ideas but really the whole point of them is to make it not seem like a WASTE OF TIME playing this game after you hit the cap...... so any thoughts on this guys??? EDIT: to clarify.... this idea would also give people who are behind a chance to atleast start catching up as well. as things are now, the cap keeps hardcore players from getting too far ahead, but the thing is is that it does nothing to close the gap between players like me who started a month ago with 6 million SP, and players who started a week ago with 1 million SP. Even if they play to their fullest and hit the cap every week afteward, so long as i do the same thing the gap between us is still going to be 5 million. So if the option to grind is there, even if the newbie grinds for an extra 50k a week, that still helps close the gap. (and yes i know i could grind for SP too), but that doesn't mean i neccessarily will. Besides that, 1000 extra SP a match isn't even a big grind, its a slow grind meant to give someone like me the illusion that im not wasting my time.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.12.25 05:30:00 - [2] - Quote i set SP floor cap would be nice; however there would need to be a limit to amount of time can get the base say 1k SP. As you can easily get a good 50k+ Sp if isnt a max amount to get. I know myself and others, we probably hit the cap by friday. So that means you are giving us 4 days at possibly make 1k SP per game. Most of us will probably net anywhere b/t 50-80k a week like that; so in a months time we could have an extra 200-300k SP jsut by a floor cap. I do like the idea; but i think it needs to be set to a certain amount of game then you just hit 0. This ill also help player counts in the long run; as if can grind out that SP there will be a bit more of a reason to long on. Heck, last 2 days, most of the day there have been maybe 6 IMP on at a time b/c we've hit the grind and got bored So yeah, in favor, but needs to have some balance factor to it
G-SLicK Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 185	Posted - 2012.12.25 05:36:00 - [3] - Quote The second idea wouldn't be right because its easy to farm WP while packed in a tank. Put a defend order on a tank and watch your tank driver rack up the kills. When the squad leader get an OB he can just hop out, use it and hop right back in and everyone in the tank gets assist points for every kill he get with the OB. I have suggest your first idea in past posts but my idea takes it a step further. Imagine a global cap of some sort of mayb 600-700k. If we keep the diminishing returns the same but add the minimal cap at around 1-2k then i would be completely fine with that. Also since its a global cap, if someone were to join the beta late or if someone gets behind a few weeks, they wont be affected by the effect of diminishing returns until he/she catches up to the global cap. That way everyone is happy. We hardcore players will always gain atleast 1-2k a match and the players who cant play as much always have time to catch up.
Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.12.25 05:39:00 - [4] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: i set SP floor cap would be nice; however there would need to be a limit to amount of time can get the base say 1k SP. As you can easily get a good 50k+ Sp if isnt a max amount to get. I know myself and others, we probably hit the cap by friday. So that means you are giving us 4 days at possibly make 1k SP per game. Most of us will probably net anywhere b/t 50-80k a week like that; so in a months time we could have an extra 200-300k SP jsut by a floor cap. I do like the idea; but i think it needs to be set to a certain amount of game then you just hit 0. This ill also help player counts in the long run; as if can grind out that SP there will be a bit more of a reason to long on. Heck, last 2 days, most of the day there have been maybe 6 IMP on at a time b/c we've hit the grind and got bored So yeah, in favor, but needs to have some balance factor to it the whole point of it is to keep us from getting 0 SP per game, it feels like such a waste of time if we make zero per match, and is an extra 200k to 300k a month really that big a deal?? its the difference between having and not have just ONE level 4 or 5 skill, This also fix the problem hardcore players have with the cap. Right now the whole argument for hardcore players have is "well if i play more then a casual player then shouldn't i be better rewarded?" This allows them to give themselves a better reward by grinding it out. so in other words, if they REALLY want the extra SP then they have the ability to WORK for it, as thing are right now, it doesn't matter how hard you work, your still only going to get 10 SP a match.
Chao Wolf Imperfects Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.12.25 05:47:00 - [5] - Quote I was thinking about this the other day. The best answer I've come up with is replace diminishing returns with a curve. Now what I mean by this is basicly the more total sp you have the less you will gain. Now short term some people will get a lead but over time it will make it easier for people to catch up.
HECATONCHIRES GYGES Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 151	Posted - 2012.12.25 05:57:00 - [6] - Quote The whole idea of the cap is to keep us from powning noobs.Everyone in this thread knows that the higher you get the less you die.The less you die.The less ISK spent on fits.The more ISK earned.Cap or no cap.You are still making ISK.If you are running proto or type B's then your not making money.Play Type II and increase your profit margin.
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2012.12.25 06:29:00 - [7] - Quote There was some talk about a soft cap. Something to prevent hitting right down to nothing. I would think that base would be somewhere just under 1000SP a match if there was one. Maybe as low as 500Sp.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.25 06:50:00 - [8] - Quote Cry moar bitches. CCP needs to give us other ** to do besides grinding SP. We need territory, gear and prestige to fight for. You whiners are focused on loserville stuff. TBH I want my SP to be handled in the first hours of the week so I can get on to ** that matters.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.12.25 07:11:00 - [9] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Cry moar bitches. CCP needs to give us other ** to do besides grinding SP. We need territory, gear and prestige to fight for. You whiners are focused on loserville stuff. TBH I want my SP to be handled in the first hours of the week so I can get on to ** that matters. Same here. I want to get my week's worth of SP with minimal effort, not have to grind 200 games a week every week. Not only does not everybody have the time for that, not everyone wants to waste all their time in pubs. We just need for SP grinding to not be the only thing worth doing.
HECATONCHIRES GYGES Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 151	Posted - 2012.12.25 07:20:00 - [10] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Cry moar bitches. CCP needs to give us other ** to do besides grinding SP. We need territory, gear and prestige to fight for. You whiners are focused on loserville stuff. TBH I want my SP to be handled in the first hours of the week so I can get on to ** that matters. Same here. I want to get my week's worth of SP with minimal effort, not have to grind 200 games a week every week. Not only does not everybody have the time for that, not everyone wants to waste all their time in pubs. We just need for SP grinding to not be the only thing worth doing. Exactly daily caps are bad for that as well.Alot of peple just arent seeing the "whole"picture.

Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 360	Posted - 2012.12.25 07:48:00 - [11] - Quote easy way to make the "whole Picture" easier to see, have SP gain be passive only. I know, I know, flame, death, horrid Idea, as this is really the only thing people are going for. But in the end it doesn't matter how much sp you have, it's how you work with a team and what you do on the field.
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.12.25 07:57:00 - [12] - Quote The way these style of games thrive is by allowing people to grind and play as much as they want to while getting somewhere, even slow progression is better then none, as it is a good player can hit the cap in the first day or 2 after the reset then might as well not play for the rest of the week.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.12.25 09:10:00 - [13] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: The way these style of games thrive is by allowing people to grind and play as much as they want to while getting somewhere, even slow progression is better then none, as it is a good player can hit the cap in the first day or 2 after the reset then might as well not play for the rest of the week. Hitting cap in 2-3 days doesnt imply being a good player. It just means you have a shiitload of time to use on the game..
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 712	Posted - 2012.12.25 09:24:00 - [14] - Quote G-SLicK wrote: The second idea wouldn't be right because its easy to farm WP while packed in a tank. Put a defend order on a tank and watch your tank driver rack up the kills. When the squad leader get an OB he can just hop out, use it and hop right back in and everyone in the tank gets assist points for every kill he get with the OB. I have suggest your first idea in past posts but my idea takes it a step further. Imagine a global cap of some sort of mayb 600-700k. If we keep the diminishing returns the same but add the minimal cap at around 1-2k then i would be completely fine with that. Also since its a global cap, if someone were to join the beta late or if someone gets behind a few weeks, they wont be affected by the effect of diminishing returns until he/she catches up to the global cap. That way everyone is happy. We hardcore players will always gain atleast 1-2k a match and the players who cant play as much always have time to catch up. Merry Christmas!
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.12.25 12:03:00 - [15] - Quote who to say ccp wont remove sp gain from battle once the game is up and running properly and just make it entirely passive theres going to be so much to fight for and gain without getting sp from battle granted it is a nice bonus IMO i dont think the battle sp is nessacery at all i say increase passive sp at some point in the future and get rid of the active battle bonus
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2012.12.25 12:13:00 - [16] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: The way these style of games thrive is by allowing people to grind and play as much as they want to while getting somewhere, even slow progression is better then none, as it is a good player can hit the cap in the first day or 2 after the reset then might as well not play for the rest of the week. Hitting cap in 2-3 days doesnt imply being a good player. It just means you have a shiitload of time to use on the game.. The point still stands though, most good players do reach the cap in the first 1-2 days. The better you do, the more sp you earn, the more sp you earn the faster you hit the cap. Hitting the cap in 2-3 days doesn't imply someone has shiitloads of time for the game. It's just means they're probably a good player. Also yes, I get my sp done early in the week, the problem is CCP won't add in anything else for hardcore players to do. If they added in battles specifically for good/more experienced players, I would play more often, as it means I'll have a good team and I'll be playing against a good team rather than these blue dots that suck.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.25 12:53:00 - [17] - Quote Oh look, more tears about the SP system. Get over t you bunch of entitled console children.
Tzaar Bomba Doomheim 174	Posted - 2012.12.25 12:57:00 - [18] - Quote Lawl +1 he just skull ****** everyone. Merry christmas.
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.12.25 14:40:00 - [19] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: The way these style of games thrive is by allowing people to grind and play as much as they want to while getting somewhere, even slow progression is better then none, as it is a good player can hit the cap in the first day or 2 after the reset then might as well not play for the rest of the week. Hitting cap in 2-3 days doesnt imply being a good player. It just means you have a shiitload of time to use on the game.. needing a full week to hit the cap implies a player is **** imo, catering to the mediocre is in fashion it seems, and if the game gets released with no ability to grind it won't get anywhere near the number of people successful F2P games like world of tanks has, it has what 42 million people signed up?
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.12.25 14:49:00 - [20] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: The way these style of games thrive is by allowing people to grind and play as much as they want to while getting somewhere, even slow progression is better then none, as it is a good player can hit the cap in the first day or 2 after the reset then might as well not play for the rest of the week. Hitting cap in 2-3 days doesnt imply being a good player. It just means you have a shiitload of time to use on the game.. needing a full week to hit the cap implies a player is ** imo, catering to the mediocre is in fashion it seems, and if the game gets released with no ability to grind it won't get anywhere near the number of people successful F2P games like world of tanks has, it has what 42 million people signed up? 42mil how many play regular? Id rarther have it EVE style 24days to reach lvl 5 skill everyone on the same exact lvl playing field prob is everyone will cry because they cant grind to proto in a day Essentially i dont give a crap anymore, someone will always complain about the SP how they cant grind past the hard cap and ** everyone else If we have no hard cap ppl with busy lives will fall behind and they wont be happy either Only way maybe is no cap but a consistant roll over so if player A and B make a chara each and player A grinds to 20mil in a month but player B went away for a month long business trip then he comes back he can get to 20mil in a week and catch up - either way someone will find a hole in this idea and thus will not be happy CCP cannot win it seems

Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:07:00 - [21] - Quote All the hard cap will mean is that people who start the game at the same time, us, will always be ahead of anyone who comes after, absolutely no chance to catch up, sure they can specialise but it will always be remarked on that players who got in first have the most SP and there is nothing a new player can do to catch up. Its the addictive nature of these style of games and the desire to catch up to the curve that gets the credit cards out of the wallet, CCP needs to realise this if it wants to break even. One line from the wiki on WoT "As of 2012, there are 45,000,000 registered players worldwide.[10] On October 4th, 2012, the game reached a record-breaking 500,000 concurrent players online on one server based in Russia." http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-19-world-of-tanks-monthly-profits-hitting-double-digit-millions "We probably have one of the highest payment ratios in the industry, it's around 25-30 per cent," he revealed. "Because people love the game." 1 month of premium in WoT is 11 bucks AU, probably the same for US dollars, i doubt he is saying 25-30% of the 45mil players but if he was it would mean about 123.75 million a month.
Blondie Roads Doomheim 10	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:19:00 - [22] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Cry moar bitches. CCP needs to give us other ** to do besides grinding SP. We need territory, gear and prestige to fight for. You whiners are focused on loserville stuff. TBH I want my SP to be handled in the first hours of the week so I can get on to ** that matters. ^^^^ This is spot on ... I wouls just replace first few hours for first few days and give us some ground to pound and conquer.
Silax Minour Doomheim 29	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:27:00 - [23] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Cry moar bitches. CCP needs to give us other ** to do besides grinding SP. We need territory, gear and prestige to fight for. You whiners are focused on loserville stuff. TBH I want my SP to be handled in the first hours of the week so I can get on to ** that matters. ^^^ THIS! I'm not awesome enough at Dust to really ever hit the SP cap, on Tuesday night I'm still getting 3-4K sp per match, (if you've seen me in matches you know I tend to finish top 5, but not a 30/2 player) However, by Tuesday night, I'm playing with blue berries because none of the GOOD players are on because they hit cap on Thursday or Friday and run off to play BO2 or BL2 or whatever, and don't really come back till Wednesday after reset. We need something, ANYTHING, different to play for other than JUST hitting SP caps.
Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:30:00 - [24] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: The whole idea of the cap is to keep us from powning noobs.Everyone in this thread knows that the higher you get the less you die.The less you die.The less ISK spent on fits.The more ISK earned.Cap or no cap.You are still making ISK.If you are running proto or type B's then your not making money.Play Type II and increase your profit margin. your missing the point entirely, the whole idea of having an SP floor is to give MORE INCENTIVE to play then just isk, it makes it so that if theres one 80k SP skill you want to get, its possible to grind it out in two days (IF YOU PUT IN THE TIME) i mean..... 80k would be 80 games, and that translates to around ten hours of gameplay....... isk means little in a game where i have over 10million of it at any given time. right now i have over about 150 vk1 suits stocked up for me. Im just trying to give us a way to reward ourselves if we WORK FOR IT, 80k SP isn't going going to break the game for people who dont get it......
Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:33:00 - [25] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Cry moar bitches. CCP needs to give us other ** to do besides grinding SP. We need territory, gear and prestige to fight for. You whiners are focused on loserville stuff. TBH I want my SP to be handled in the first hours of the week so I can get on to ** that matters. get off my thread if all your going to do is call us "whiners", i understand that there going to add things like terriitory and gear, but whats the point of adding all that stuff if they haven't perfected the coremechanics of the game yet?? this IS an issue weather you want to think of it as one or not
Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:35:00 - [26] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Cry moar bitches. CCP needs to give us other ** to do besides grinding SP. We need territory, gear and prestige to fight for. You whiners are focused on loserville stuff. TBH I want my SP to be handled in the first hours of the week so I can get on to ** that matters. Same here. I want to get my week's worth of SP with minimal effort, not have to grind 200 games a week every week. Not only does not everybody have the time for that, not everyone wants to waste all their time in pubs. We just need for SP grinding to not be the only thing worth doing. did you not read the post at all??? you can put forth "minimul effort" and still hit your 500k SP cap, its just that instead of the floor being 0 at the end of your deminishing returns, you make 1000SP from every match onward. Its like overtime at work, its not mandatory but its there in case you want to make a little extra.
Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:36:00 - [27] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: The way these style of games thrive is by allowing people to grind and play as much as they want to while getting somewhere, even slow progression is better then none, as it is a good player can hit the cap in the first day or 2 after the reset then might as well not play for the rest of the week. ty, atleast someone gets it!
Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:39:00 - [28] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Oh look, more tears about the SP system. Get over t you bunch of entitled console children. gtfo my thread if your not going to add anything aside from trolling to it you pc elitist
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 323	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:52:00 - [29] - Quote Marston EV wrote: The thing that would make the current system PERFECT in my opinion would be a "minimum SP gain Cap" so let me elaborate on what this means and why it would bring perfect balance to what things are like now. Currently when you hit the SP cap, your SP gains steadily decrease from 10k to 5k, 1k, then 10...... per match. What they need to do is put a floor on the deminshing returns. or in another words they should make it so that you CANT make less then 1k - 2.5k SP per match (if your doing well obviously). The reason this is a good idea is because it would slow down the hardcore players enough so that they can still make an extra 10 - 20k SP a day if they GRIND for it, but theres not way they could possibly make huge leaps ahead of there casual counterparts. Now the idea is simple, but its not perfect. To keep this from becoming an exploit CCP would have to make it so that you have to particapate in battle to some extent in order to get the full 1000-2500 SP, perhaps they could tie it down to how many WP you make in a match but that would be up for them to decide. Another completely seperate idea would be to just give us as many SP as we make WP in a match as a minimum to earn. If i make 3000 WP in a match doesn't that mean i should deserve atleast that many SP??? I mean this idea is less ideal then the last one because it favors hardcore players more but its still a decent idea. ultimately im not sure if CCP will use either of these ideas but really the whole point of them is to make it not seem like a WASTE OF TIME playing this game after you hit the cap...... so any thoughts on this guys??? I've been saying that there should be a floor for SP gained not long after they implemented a cap.I guess the thing with having a floor though,is that then there will never be a true cap,so what you would need is a ceiling where you can gain only so much per match. Just spitballing,lets just say that the max SP that you could ever gain in any match is 200k,and not a point more,then maybe after a while,have the floor at about 2500 or so.I guess there could be some sort of system where your diminishing returns would work just like they do now,but instead of eventually getting to zero,you will still earn 2500 points max,just for completing a match.Now you could still get zero points for joining late,or just doing nothing in the match,but floor is actually a low point cap that would only yield you a max of 2500 or so. I guess the only good thing about the current system now is that come end of the week when the "no lifes" are getting zero points,then they usually stop playing and it gives some of the lesser skilled players a fighting chance,generally speaking.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.12.25 18:39:00 - [30] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Cry moar bitches. CCP needs to give us other ** to do besides grinding SP. We need territory, gear and prestige to fight for. You whiners are focused on loserville stuff. TBH I want my SP to be handled in the first hours of the week so I can get on to ** that matters. Well, we do have gear to fight for...and if by prestige you mean reputation, we can do that now as well. So really all you want is territory.



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