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Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 03:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
There is now little challenge in the game since ISK rewards have been increased. |
Tmills6
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 04:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 04:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right.
Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games and thats using suits that are less than 50k. |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
168
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 06:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fine for you. What about the rest of us? I can pull 100K with zero input. And I need it. There are many skill books that cost 400-800K ISK. Once I have a flesh out, skilled and equipped character then I might agree. But by then I expect to be using more top line for everything. Why not? Now consider helping out a new pilot on your squad. Buy the ship, outfit it and let them fly. How can you do anything like that if you have nothing left over after a match.
And if you aren't driven by profit, then excuse the kitten out me, why are you even here? We are mercenaries after all. When Dust 514 is more then just this speck of Dust then my merc wants to own something or be a part of something. Nothing helps that better then profit. |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
238
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 06:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
no their fine, just because your earning alot of money, dosent mean everyone is earning that much, leave the game alone its fine where it is. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
435
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 07:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games.
I call BS on that |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 07:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Its fine the way it is. |
I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
172
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 07:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Without the extra isk, we can't exactly try out the best fittings in battle all the time.
I would love to throw an expensive suit out there and see how it runs at least a couple times during a match, but I know that if I die in my 150k suit twice I'll lose profit that round. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 17:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Without the extra isk, we can't exactly try out the best fittings in battle all the time.
I would love to throw an expensive suit out there and see how it runs at least a couple times during a match, but I know that if I die in my 150k suit twice I'll lose profit that round.
You shouldn't be able to have the best fittings all the time. Right now we are susposed to be in Highsec which should be the least lucrative space in the game, yet I and so many others can field high end gear without much issue. How are the rewards going to help out any new players if they get crushed by the people who can actually make ISK while running proto gear?
Unfortunately, I am unsure how the isk rewards are actually distributed. If the gear you field has anything to do with it (I think the recent devblog mentioned that) then there should be a cap on how effective it is so people running high end gear don't hog all the rewards. |
WHz DS9899
Doomheim
136
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 19:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
DAMMIT REIMUS! YOU KNOW I NEED THIS EXTRA ISK PAYOUT! If it changed back to how it was, I couldn't operate on a day to day basis. Quit trying to hinder me... again. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 20:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Joined a match in pgorgress.
about 3 mins on the clock.
1 vs. 1, and the other guy was 0 for 0 even though his team was down a clone, so... oops, I guess?
I ran and hid because I accidentally spawned in the wrong suit. Because the other guy had joined while already down a suit, I won. Ummm... Hooray? (sorry for hiding. Didn't want to lose expensive experimental support setup that had no value in 1 vs. 1).
200k ISK, and about 5k SP.
200,000 ISK for literally 0/0 with 0 WP. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 20:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
What you're asking for is an ISK barrier for item usage, it sounds like.
There is only one problem with ISK barriers. They hurt brand new players and buff established ones. Titans in Eve are the best example of this. CCP created something that was insanely powerful and 10x bigger than the previous largest ships in the game. But they made them super exspensive, thinking that would make them rare. A couple years later, these ships are commonplace and 'everyone' has one.
Making things expensive or having rewards be low is not a good way to artificially restrict use of items. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 21:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:What you're asking for is an ISK barrier for item usage, it sounds like.
There is only one problem with ISK barriers. They hurt brand new players and buff established ones. Titans in Eve are the best example of this. CCP created something that was insanely powerful and 10x bigger than the previous largest ships in the game. But they made them super exspensive, thinking that would make them rare. A couple years later, these ships are commonplace and 'everyone' has one.
Making things expensive or having rewards be low is not a good way to artificially restrict use of items.
Very true there. My suggestion though, was that if you bring all proto to a fight you get 3x the cut of the payout compaired to those who brought just standard gear.... then for highsec, that additional cut should be reduced. I don't know how the payouts work. But in just the few hours I've played, I've been able to make 5m+ in pure profit and I'm using mostly proto gear. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 22:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oh dear do you have any idea how expensive a full proto suit is? Obviously not. I get between 200-300k ISK (usually 1st or 2nd place on my team) per match. Its not to much its allright how it is at the moment. After all only the highest ranked players get a very good payout to keep the extreme expensive stuff running. |
HECATONCHIRES GYGES
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 22:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games and thats using suits that are less than 50k. first of all I think you are full of **** with the 500k ISK payout.In CODEX when people were farming orbitals I say a guy make 9685 WP yes warpoints and go 53-0.I asked him how much ISK he got to which he replied 376 thousand....second of all there fine.If you have a surplus of cash then run VK proto every match.
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Rayan Storm
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 22:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games. I call BS on that
Same. I got 17 kills and 1500 war points in a match. ISK reward? 250K. Total BS man. |
HECATONCHIRES GYGES
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 22:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rayan Storm wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games. I call BS on that Same. I got 17 kills and 1500 war points in a match. ISK reward? 250K. Total BS man. (reads post)*cough*cough*bull $h1!t*cough*@Reimus
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Icy Tiger
Universal Allies Inc.
1026
|
Posted - 2012.12.20 23:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think it's at the sweet spot right now. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 00:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Is this thread serious??? Complaining about too much ISK? I think I've heard all the complaints in the world now.
I have $50k, $100 suits....ISK rewards are fine |
karin gaton
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 00:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Isk rewards are finally at a balance of just enough to be satisfying. |
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Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 02:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Oh dear do you have any idea how expensive a full proto suit is? Obviously not. I get between 200-300k ISK (usually 1st or 2nd place on my team) per match. Its not to much its allright how it is at the moment. After all only the highest ranked players get a very good payout to keep the extreme expensive stuff running.
Yeah. I do know how expensive it is. So many people are running proto now it's insane. Remember, this is susposed to be highsec, rewards should be crap to help push people into nullsec.
HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games and thats using suits that are less than 50k. first of all I think you are full of **** with the 500k ISK payout.In CODEX when people were farming orbitals I say a guy make 9685 WP yes warpoints and go 53-0.I asked him how much ISK he got to which he replied 376 thousand....second of all there fine.If you have a surplus of cash then run VK proto every match. I've made nearly half a million isk a few times now. Typically I get 200-300k. Also, rewards have been increased since codex. It feels like 2 to 3 times as much now. |
WHz DS9899
Doomheim
136
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 02:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've gotten more earlier. Somehow, I went 40/0 with my tank, andgot 656,864 ISK lol |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
132
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 07:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Too much ISK is a bad thing - no incentive for ppl to band in corps and play together to survive since loadouts are dirt cheap and loosing a game with a terrible KDR is ok. I think CCP may be doing the cheap isk reward on purpose to test some balancing issues to increase access to higher tier equipment that otherwise would not be tested |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 08:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Too much ISK is a bad thing - no incentive for ppl to band in corps and play together to survive since loadouts are dirt cheap and loosing a game with a terrible KDR is ok. I think CCP may be doing the cheap isk reward on purpose to test some balancing issues to increase access to higher tier equipment that otherwise would not be tested
Yeah. That makes sense. One big issue is whether those of us who get very high payouts ends up really robbing those who are struggling. Overall I want more challenge. |
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
159
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 12:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
isk rewards are finally perfect. i had made threads on codex about them being so low that i was spending too much aurum to play. i know get good blah blah blah. but my kdr is positive and if the game costs me more than 20 aur a month i just wont play it and keep my eve sub too so i am sure others with a lower kdr than me were having a harder time than i was. by the way i run type2 and A series suits or militia when i have used up more than about 3 suits so its not because i am trying to run proto every match.
CCP keep isk like this its still a challenge but its also such now that i dont have to decide to play or not based on aur consumption.
by the way when you are telling me to get good keep in mind i am consistently amoung the top part of the after match leaderboard so i think my performance is acceptable. I remember matches in codex with 17 kills 10 deaths multiple hacks and getting only 118,000 isk which was way too low for that performance in my opinion and now the isk payout for that type match is much better this build so i say keep it the same.
EDIT--- that should read $20.00 worth of aurum a month |
Kovak Therim
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
158
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 13:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
I doubt it's permanent. There is no high/low/nullsec as of yet, just tests by CCP. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
charlesnette dalari wrote:isk rewards are finally perfect. i had made threads on codex about them being so low that i was spending too much aurum to play. i know get good blah blah blah. but my kdr is positive and if the game costs me more than 20 aur a month i just wont play it and keep my eve sub too so i am sure others with a lower kdr than me were having a harder time than i was. by the way i run type2 and A series suits or militia when i have used up more than about 3 suits so its not because i am trying to run proto every match.
CCP keep isk like this its still a challenge but its also such now that i dont have to decide to play or not based on aur consumption.
by the way when you are telling me to get good keep in mind i am consistently amoung the top part of the after match leaderboard so i think my performance is acceptable. I remember matches in codex with 17 kills 10 deaths multiple hacks and getting only 118,000 isk which was way too low for that performance in my opinion and now the isk payout for that type match is much better this build so i say keep it the same.
I'm not arguing that to get higher isk payout you need to get better, I'm arguing that there shouldn't be a lucrative way of running top end gear in our current matches (which are susposed to be highsec). Later when CCP introduces lowsec and nullsec, running those top end fits shouldn't be much of an issue. So, if you want to run those suits, you find ways of moving to nullsec where planetary conquest makes a difference. That will make it so highsec is more noob friendly and more people can enjoy the game without fear of being stomped by experienced players with the best gear. |
Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die
37
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games and thats using suits that are less than 50k. first of all I think you are full of **** with the 500k ISK payout.In CODEX when people were farming orbitals I say a guy make 9685 WP yes warpoints and go 53-0.I asked him how much ISK he got to which he replied 376 thousand....second of all there fine.If you have a surplus of cash then run VK proto every match.
I got 315k iSK in my best ISK gain of this week, somehting i noticed is 1 of my freinds who used to use Boosters but doesn`t now gains something JUST LIKE what she/he is claiming, idk if th9s is a bug maybe CCP can clearify but on avrage I gain 7k SP (15k good, 3k bad, 630 in a joined but get a loss for playing 1 secound BUT YEAH PROTO SUIT AND ADVANCE FORGE GUN game) and on avrage I gane 160k ISK. could you be awarded for owning/ being an official in a corporation or have some sort of skil that helps and/or buged that gets you more then ussual? |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 22:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games and thats using suits that are less than 50k.
Do you have squad lead those games? |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 22:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
They are balanced. Try running a 100k ISK Heavy in a game. One death and your alreay harely making a profit. 2 deaths and you go negative... |
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Rayan Storm
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 00:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:They are balanced. Try running a 100k ISK Heavy in a game. One death and your alreay harely making a profit. 2 deaths and you go negative...
Exactly. This is high ISK rewards only for those who spend little. I am running a fully advanced suit, with some proto gear and i NEED 200K just to keep my fit going without neg. It is in the sweet spot right now guys. Really!
Too much ISk. Pshh. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 02:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:There is now little challenge in the game since ISK rewards have been increased. You're a good player, and a good Corp-mate, and I value your opinion. That said, this is the first time in months that I can actually afford to use my higher-tier Logi suit and modules. I see no issue with these ISK payouts. I mean, its only a Type-II. I shouldn't be going negative every match trying to use a Type-II suit. |
RECON BY FIRE
BetaMax.
51
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 16:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Without the extra isk, we can't exactly try out the best fittings in battle all the time.
I would love to throw an expensive suit out there and see how it runs at least a couple times during a match, but I know that if I die in my 150k suit twice I'll lose profit that round. You shouldn't be able to have the best fittings all the time. Right now we are susposed to be in Highsec which should be the least lucrative space in the game, yet I and so many others can field high end gear without much issue. How are the rewards going to help out any new players if they get crushed by the people who can actually make ISK while running proto gear? Unfortunately, I am unsure how the isk rewards are actually distributed. If the gear you field has anything to do with it (I think the recent devblog mentioned that) then there should be a cap on how effective it is so people running high end gear don't hog all the rewards.
Where did this notion that we are supposed to be in Highsec come from? Every match Ive been in so far the system is in nullsec. |
Washlee
UnReaL.
131
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 20:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Complaining about getting paid.
Here's how a real life situation would work
Boss - Here's your pay check for the week You - Whoa Whoa Whoa this 1000$ Boss - Yea its how much you worked this week You - NA NA NA I can't accept this much money its too much.
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Barack Ownbama
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
159
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 21:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
I like this level simply because it doesn't feel like I'm grinding away in games trying to make cash to afford a half-way decent suit. Now I don't feel as bad about pulling out all the stops for the good stuff even though if I die with it a couple of times I'll be out of ISK in the long run. I think it's really good for both old and new since older players can actually use the stuff they've waited for to buy without fear of how badly it's going to hurt their bank account, and newer players can save up right away to spend on skills and try out a ton of different things before focusing on a single area. Plus, more vehicles driving around are always good and seriously lacking right now. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 22:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
I get around 100-200k ISK and a few thousand Skill Points each round, 100-150k if I'm only using Militia Gear. Now, when HAVs cost twice that, and can be taken away with a few accurate Forge Gunners, you can see why the rewards really aren't that high |
GrilledCheese Sandwich
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 22:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
ISK rewards are fine the way it is. |
xXTruegamerXx
The Generals
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 00:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
The amount of isk right now is alright i get 400k isk almost each match so thats good since i waist 100k on my protype suit each death. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 01:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
I got 970k isk for going 30/0 in the Asia game show servers the other day, it's all about the stuff you kill not just kills and wp. |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
12
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 03:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
I don't think isk rewards are too high. You shouldn't have to struggle to stay in a full standard suit. Which I would say costs around 50k on low end. At least in my logi suit. At that levels you should still make some isk when u have 1 kdr. I don't want to be forced to role with milita suits because I can't afford standard gear.
What happens is a snowball effect. You use less and less useful load outs whe. You die to people using proto gear. Eventually you have one side of battle in tanks and proto gear and the other side is redlined and running milita stuff because they can't afford to run much else.
Half the reason I feel games are so lopsided. Since this chrom I don't experience this as much. |
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Zarr Du'kar
Doomheim
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 12:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
He mustve been playing the asia HK event. I noticed the more people you kill with proto gear the higher your isk reward is. I just finished a game in the HK event with lots of ag001 and so on players (hk testers with full proto gear) and I kid you not, I only went 18 - 2 and I got over 780+ thousand isk.
On average, in regular instant battles I get around 180-200++ isk. In the HK events I get around 300-400 isk.
If we're talking about isk rewards in regular games 100-200k isk is not even enough to cover around 4 deaths of only advance level gear. In my opinion, its fine enough as it is. You are forced to save your isk and be more mindful of what dropsuit you use in game. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 21:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zarr Du'kar wrote:He mustve been playing the asia HK event. I noticed the more people you kill with proto gear the higher your isk reward is. I just finished a game in the HK event with lots of ag001 and so on players (hk testers with full proto gear) and I kid you not, I only went 18 - 2 and I got over 780+ thousand isk.
On average, in regular instant battles I get around 180-200++ isk. In the HK events I get around 300-400 isk.
If we're talking about isk rewards in regular games 100-200k isk is not even enough to cover around 4 deaths of only advance level gear. In my opinion, its fine enough as it is. You are forced to save your isk and be more mindful of what dropsuit you use in game.
That would make quite a bit of sense about my ISK rewards. |
Konohamaru Sarutobi
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
91
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 21:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:There is now little challenge in the game since ISK rewards have been increased.
Just play with Proto Gear and it will be a great challenge to take care of your economy |
Kiiran-B
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
46
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 02:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games and thats using suits that are less than 50k.
Half a million sp? Wtf?! Lol |
Matheus Chromik
CAS 514
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 05:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
I think the rewards are great, since we lose alot of it in expensive suits and tanks. U can get 500k ISK in one round. But u can have also an dropship of 3 Million. So I think they are fine. |
NovaShadowStorm
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 13:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
I agree they seem to be fine now in a battle I get on average about 250k. Minus suit/mod loss I end up walking away with just a tad more than I spent. It's hard for me to exactly quantify since I buy in bulk but what I can say is when it's time to restock I'll usually have just a few hundred K more than I did last time I restocked. (This is running standard/advanced) |
Tzaar Bomba
Doomheim
174
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 13:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
Reimus Klinsman wrote:There is now little challenge in the game since ISK rewards have been increased.
I will stab you in the face. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 20:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tzaar Bomba wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:There is now little challenge in the game since ISK rewards have been increased. I will stab you in the face.
Bahahahaha |
domino 88
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 09:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
If the DUST economy is anything like the Eve one once the game goes live you'll get inflation on all the items so it'll become pretty dynamic. |
Thranx1231
CowTek
90
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 10:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kiiran-B wrote:Reimus Klinsman wrote:Tmills6 wrote:no just no..... I'm pullin out 200k isk on a good match but I'm also losing a lot of that if I am running a non full BPO suit. I think the isk rewards are just about right. Really, Im getting nearly half a million SP for some of my good games and thats using suits that are less than 50k. Half a million sp? Wtf?! Lol You notice that poster never cleared that kitten stupid SP reference up. Maybe that one doesn't know the difference between the useful ISK over the critical SP?
It seems obvious it was mistyping SP when ISK was intended. Although, I would love to see their suits cost them 50K SP. They might learn to be more careful. |
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