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Caeli SineDeo
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
294
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Posted - 2012.11.29 16:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
I have mix feelings of this myself. just because i know there will be griefers that want to blow up spendy toys.
But if you add in the risk of them taking a isk lost according on what they blow up and the total value of it in weapons mods and suit it might work out. So lets say omni is pissed at tanks and thinks he is going to Team Kill my 2.5m isk sagaris fit he will also feel my pain when he does it and takes a 2.5 m isk loss. This loss of isk will make people think twice before team killing anyone. |
Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 16:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
no hardcore fps can not be FF on all the time. whether is 25% in hisec, 50% in lowsec or 100% in null sec it has to be on. end of story.
the kick or forgive option after the first TK solves all of the QQing about it ruining gameplay. that way after the first TK u run the risk of being labeled a traitor and your employers hit the suicide switch on your clone. this will obv affect employment history among other things. if the consequences are enough it will make people reconsider abusing FF. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2012.11.29 16:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:I have mix feelings of this myself. just because i know there will be griefers that want to blow up spendy toys.
But if you add in the risk of them taking a isk lost according on what they blow up and the total value of it in weapons mods and suit it might work out. So lets say omni is pissed at tanks and thinks he is going to Team Kill my 2.5m isk sagaris fit he will also feel my pain when he does it and takes a 2.5 m isk loss. This loss of isk will make people think twice before team killing anyone.
I do agree there will be griefers but there will be a lot of positive out of this too.
1. We wont see that many vehicles out because no one with want noobs sitting in their tanks and dropships shooting at the friggin tank or dropship they are in 2. It will promote serious gunplay rather than vehicle play 3. I would love to see how the those HMG, Mass driver and nade spammers would actually function
More than isk, I would rather their skill point be decked. Say for every team kill it would be -1000 SP or something like that.
Just my 0.02 AUR |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
37
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Posted - 2012.11.29 16:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:RedRebelCork wrote:Tony Calif wrote:MAG friendly fire was 50% not full friendly fire. Also Meode, Ice has a point. While you have a bigger gun, 2 breach forge in the back is game over for any tank. I like the warriors game of "bobble-tank" though. Much better than actually killing you. Exactly, it was 50% for a reason. Zipper made a lot of mistakes but their FF worked out quite well IMO. It used to be 100% and included headshot damage multipliers. Then there was this glitch early on where when you spawned, occasionally you would automatically knife the area in front of you, (it was an honest glitch, although I know of a few people who would do it just to troll.) Couple this with your knife being a 15 foot lightsaber of doom in a room that had 16 guys all in extreme proximity, and you had a lulzworthy start to every game. I'd like to see FF treated in relative terms to the security of the battle. Hi-sec with no FF, moving into null-sec gradually increasing FF up to either 50% or a full 100% when you've reached Null-sec. Where's your sense of adventure men? (^.^)>----------(X.X)
Scaling FF in relation to the sec rating of the battle is actually a good idea.
Potential for a sub-contracted squad to turn traitor and massacre their own.... not sure if bad or good thing. |
Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 17:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
More than isk, I would rather their skill point be decked. Say for every team kill it would be -1000 SP or something like that.
Just my 0.02 AUR[/quote]
this ^. if it ends up costing people they wont abuse it. its one of the only ways to deal with grenade, HMG and orbital strike spam. |
ICECREAMK1NG
WARRIORS 1NC
391
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 17:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote: More than isk, I would rather their skill point be decked. Say for every team kill it would be -1000 SP or something like that.
Just my 0.02 AUR
this ^. if it ends up costing people they wont abuse it. its one of the only ways to deal with grenade, HMG and orbital strike spam.[/quote]
You honestly think I'd care about losing SP or ISK, dream on blue dot.
Kill me and I will kill every blue thing I see. |
ReGnUM PERFECTION DEI
402
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Posted - 2012.11.29 17:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
This post basically sums up what I would do if Friendly fire gets turned on
Friendly fire
If I shot friendlys in the back for hacks in MAG, I am not afraid to do it in DUST |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
238
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 17:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
its a horrible idea than people would just shoot people when they steal their kills, would there be implementation of Negative WP/ Sp/ Isk negative penalty? |
Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2012.11.29 17:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
ICECREAMK1NG wrote:Reiki Jubo wrote: More than isk, I would rather their skill point be decked. Say for every team kill it would be -1000 SP or something like that.
Just my 0.02 AUR
this ^. if it ends up costing people they wont abuse it. its one of the only ways to deal with grenade, HMG and orbital strike spam.
You honestly think I'd care about losing SP or ISK, dream on blue dot.
Kill me and I will kill every blue thing I see. [/quote]
with a kick or forgive option guys like you and regnum would last about 2 min in a match #problemsolved |
Tyjus Vacca
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2012.11.29 18:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
i like kick/forgive. also, too many kicks gets you banned. still cant wait to team kill? doubt it. |
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ICECREAMK1NG
WARRIORS 1NC
391
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 18:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:ICECREAMK1NG wrote:Reiki Jubo wrote: More than isk, I would rather their skill point be decked. Say for every team kill it would be -1000 SP or something like that.
Just my 0.02 AUR
this ^. if it ends up costing people they wont abuse it. its one of the only ways to deal with grenade, HMG and orbital strike spam. You honestly think I'd care about losing SP or ISK, dream on blue dot. Kill me and I will kill every blue thing I see.
with a kick or forgive option guys like you and regnum would last about 2 min in a match #problemsolved[/quote]
Oh, and how are you gonna kick me out my own squad.
TURN IT ON CCP....... Looks like there's plenty who need to learn how FF works in reality. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 18:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Actually they just kill you. And because tey have a squad, they then vote you off the game. Warriors 1 Scrubtown Rangers 0. Getcha TK game up yo... I know people on MAG who got -400 points. -5 per TK. And you got kicked after 5 TKs. People got rather creative ;) |
xjumpman23
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
262
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 18:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
if friendly fire is on I want to be able to roll with 15 of my buddies. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 18:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
ICECREAMK1NG wrote:I really don't see the point, the way this game is set up.
And trust me, if it's turned on it will be a disaster and kill this game comepletely.
I'm guessing those of you that want it have never played an FPS with it.
And when you factor in suit cost etc, and some useless ramdom TK's you in your 250 isk suit, do you honestly think that guy will not just spend the rest of the game TK ing blue dots.
Every one of mine will be ten of yours.
That is the point of teamwork and coordination. To prevent idiots from accidentally shooting their own teammates. As for infiltrators, well, if they shoot you then you can shoot back. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 18:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Simple solution (others already mentioned) HighSec = FF Off LowSec= FF On, at 50% NulSec= FF on, at 100%
HOWEVER, you need a game mechanic where the person that commits friendly fire gets -50WP for every teamkill AND loses the cost of the victim's suit. If the teamkill was accidental, no worries... it'll probably only happen once, if that. The loss of isk will sting a little, but no biggy. If it's done on purpose, the teamkiller will go broke pretty quickly. |
slap26
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
462
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 18:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:I have mix feelings of this myself. just because i know there will be griefers that want to blow up spendy toys.
But if you add in the risk of them taking a isk lost according on what they blow up and the total value of it in weapons mods and suit it might work out. So lets say omni is pissed at tanks and thinks he is going to Team Kill my 2.5m isk sagaris fit he will also feel my pain when he does it and takes a 2.5 m isk loss. This loss of isk will make people think twice before team killing anyone.
Agreed
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ICECREAMK1NG
WARRIORS 1NC
391
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 19:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Simple solution (others already mentioned) HighSec = FF Off LowSec= FF On, at 50% NulSec= FF on, at 100%
HOWEVER, you need a game mechanic where the person that commits friendly fire gets -50WP for every teamkill AND loses the cost of the victim's suit. If the teamkill was accidental, no worries... it'll probably only happen once, if that. The loss of isk will sting a little, but no biggy. If it's done on purpose, the teamkiller will go broke pretty quickly.
Can't go broke in BPO's even a BPO with a 30,000 monkey gun will take a while.
I've definately changed my mind now.
Turn it on CCP. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 19:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
ICECREAMK1NG wrote:mikegunnz wrote:Simple solution (others already mentioned) HighSec = FF Off LowSec= FF On, at 50% NulSec= FF on, at 100%
HOWEVER, you need a game mechanic where the person that commits friendly fire gets -50WP for every teamkill AND loses the cost of the victim's suit. If the teamkill was accidental, no worries... it'll probably only happen once, if that. The loss of isk will sting a little, but no biggy. If it's done on purpose, the teamkiller will go broke pretty quickly. Can't go broke in BPO's even a BPO with a 30,000 monkey gun will take a while. I've definately changed my mind now. Turn it on CCP.
but if you lose the amount of isk that the VICTIM's suit cost, that can be 100k or up to even 300k isk each time. THAT will make you go broke. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 20:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
I play all my games that allow it, I see playing without ff as pretty weak sauce.
BF3 pc hardcore only, PC counter-strike, MAG and MGO have ff and are the only way to appreciate those games. If you run in BF3 with re-gen health, please don't speak as that is as easy-mode as you can get.
The best ff that I have come across is in MGO, for those few of you that have played this you will remember what it was and why it was so well implemented.
In MGO the aggressor had their gun lock for a set amount of time (3 sec or so) which in a middle of a gun fight is death. This concept was rooted into the lore of the game.
Each merc was hired by their PMC (Private Military Corporation) and nano-hives were injected into them to be super soldiers. These nano-hives had other attributes such as being able to unlock your gun. This safety aspect was so that the hired merc couldn't turn around and kill his employer because he is being payed more from the opposition.
So in game when you shot your own teammate, YOUR gun would lock because it recognizes that it is a friendly your killing and locks the gun for a set time. Now the bullets you put into your teammates back still does damage and if he was on the last bit of health he would die, or you could keep shooting him wait for your gun to unlock shoot him again and repeat until he dies.
This would be a more interesting way of setting up FF because like some have stated that they don't care and will TK at will, this will definitely discourage that type of player cause they would leave themselves vulnerable to enemy fire.
The suggestions of paying for what you broke is also good idea to use, I am all for anything that makes people think before shooting. |
Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
898
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 20:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Simple solution (others already mentioned) HighSec = FF Off LowSec= FF On, at 50% NulSec= FF on, at 100%
HOWEVER, you need a game mechanic where the person that commits friendly fire gets -50WP for every teamkill AND loses the cost of the victim's suit. If the teamkill was accidental, no worries... it'll probably only happen once, if that. The loss of isk will sting a little, but no biggy. If it's done on purpose, the teamkiller will go broke pretty quickly.
I agree with this, but I would say put FF at 5-10% in HighSec. I like the ISK and WP penalty, but TKs would also need to subtract from your kill stats and make it possible to have a negative KDR even though you don't die. |
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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 21:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:I play all my games that allow it, I see playing without ff as pretty weak sauce.
BF3 pc hardcore only, PC counter-strike, MAG and MGO have ff and are the only way to appreciate those games. If you run in BF3 with re-gen health, please don't speak as that is as easy-mode as you can get.
The best ff that I have come across is in MGO, for those few of you that have played this you will remember what it was and why it was so well implemented.
In MGO the aggressor had their gun lock for a set amount of time (3 sec or so) which in a middle of a gun fight is death. This concept was rooted into the lore of the game.
Each merc was hired by their PMC (Private Military Corporation) and nano-hives were injected into them to be super soldiers. These nano-hives had other attributes such as being able to unlock your gun. This safety aspect was so that the hired merc couldn't turn around and kill his employer because he is being payed more from the opposition.
So in game when you shot your own teammate, YOUR gun would lock because it recognizes that it is a friendly your killing and locks the gun for a set time. Now the bullets you put into your teammates back still does damage and if he was on the last bit of health he would die, or you could keep shooting him wait for your gun to unlock shoot him again and repeat until he dies.
This would be a more interesting way of setting up FF because like some have stated that they don't care and will TK at will, this will definitely discourage that type of player cause they would leave themselves vulnerable to enemy fire.
The suggestions of paying for what you broke is also good idea to use, I am all for anything that makes people think before shooting.
Watch the MGS4 intro. Dust should also steal that speach :)
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Kain Spero
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
898
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 21:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:... In MGO the aggressor had their gun lock for a set amount of time (3 sec or so) which in a middle of a gun fight is death. This concept was rooted into the lore of the game ...
+ GêP
This is a fantastic idea. Looks like it wouldn't help against nade TKs or high alpha damage weapons, so you would still need to do damage % scaling with security level and have WP and ISK penalties. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 21:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
FF on= snipers going to be the number 1 target to kill. This is what happend in mag when you dared to use a sniper rifle and the next thing you saw is 6 people running at you with knifes. If i see a bluedot on skirmish camping with a sniper rifle on a hill on the tactical map i will get my LAV, drive up to him, charge my nova knife and stab him to death. I dare you to enable FF, no i double dare you. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 21:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Belzeebub Santana wrote:... In MGO the aggressor had their gun lock for a set amount of time (3 sec or so) which in a middle of a gun fight is death. This concept was rooted into the lore of the game ...
+ GêP This is a fantastic idea. Looks like it wouldn't help against nade TKs or high alpha damage weapons, so you would still need to do damage % scaling with security level and have WP and ISK penalties.
MGO had same type weapons, nades of all types (smoke made the player cough, so if your teammates were caught in it, it locked your gun), rocket launchers and noob tubes, all them messed your team up if you hit them and it locked your gun from firing. But yes still have isk payouts for things you have destroyed. |
Ghost-33
ShootBreakStab
108
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 21:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Easy fix I believe, Let the FF be 100% and have a penalty for TK'ing. I know an ISK penalty will be laughable to most and a WarPoint penalty isn't harsh enough. My Idea, A Skill Point penalty.
If you kill a friendly you would get a skill point penalty of 25% of whatever the friendly lost in ISK.
2mil tank? You loose 500k SP. If you only have 98,000 sp you would have -402,000 SP
Kill a friendly heavy fit at 87k ISK, you loose 21,750 SP
And of course a fail safe of a minimum 7,500 SP penalty for anything below 30k ISK so no one can TK militia fits or BPO's with impunity.
Sure an accident can happen but it isn't without consequences, which is just the EVE way. And if TK's are abused you can quickly be in a massive negative unallocated SP hole.
Moral, Dont be a Dust Douche and you will be fine. |
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