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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 00:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Something else to realize if you think covering expenses for a dust corp would be very easy for any eve player-
There will be more expenses than vehicles, installations, and dropsuits.
There's a thing called a war barge, and I would bet you have to pay for MCCs too. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 00:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Wouldn't the advantage of larger corps be there ability to hold multiple planets and accept multiple contracts at once? |
jenza aranda
BetaMax.
1005
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 00:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
i imagine a corp/alliance could research (like all good ones do) for a list of decent dust merc corps and then add a standing to them, then set the contract that has a minimum standing requirement |
Omnipotens Zitro
Doomheim
425
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Wouldn't the advantage of larger corps be there ability to hold multiple planets and accept multiple contracts at once? No on the first part. A small corp can hold as much as a big corp or even bigger depending on the area. Because there are choke points within each region. Like in real estate, location location.
For the second part yes&no. Only advantage would be is that they could do multiple battles at once. Down side is there are only so many good players with in the game. So your forces would be spread thin with skill.
Example:
Imperfects could of field 3 teams for the tourney and would of been 1,2&3. So we can easily do three battles at once with 16v16 for districts and dominate.
Zion could of have field 16+ teams . But if you had everybody face the other tourney teams, only one or two would win there respective battles because you guys don't have the skill to support 16 solid teams. Yes you guys have numbers but it doesn't mean anything if you have a 1 out of 8 chance of winning a battle.- |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Okay guys, you all have to realize that 0.0 won't come for at least another 1.5 years. Pretty long time.
Another problem that nobody realizes either is the battle system. In EVE you can attack multiple locations all at once because its all on the same server and you can get anywhere with no problem. You just need the numbers to do so.
In Dust it will be based on Contracts. The battles will not be instantaneous because of how the battle system will work. Hey, yeah you can have the numbers to take all the districts at once. Will it happen no. Because most of your forces will be waiting for your opponent to accept the defend contract stating that their forces are ready for battle.
I highly bet that there will be a 3 hour plus reinforcement timer for districts. So that small corp that controls the whole planet can effectively defend it without needing the numbers to defend all of them at once. All they have to do is play one game at a time. With a 3 hour plus reinforcement timer, a great corp can go through 15 districts in no time and defend it well because they are facing the same opponent over and over.
The problem with bigger corps will be when they start the attack process with multiple districts, they will be at the biggest disadvantage. Because they will need there players on standby while the defending corp can choose what district to defend at a time. They could hire another corp with the numbers to defend all the targets at once and surprise your huge corp if it wasn't in fact ready to do all the battles at once. Most likely be a 10min notice for the attacking team that the defenders are ready.
Corps with big numbers will be in a bit of a surprise when FW and Null come around as numbers will not matter. CCP has stated that FW and Null will cater to smaller corps.
The smaller more efficient Corps will be a lot more power than the corps with 300 plus members. Skill>Numbers
You can have 300 average players, but those 50 highly skilled players will be able to win every single battle. You can have 300 members but you can't fit 300 players into 16,24,32 match.
So according to this, dust alliances will be irrelevant. Because you won't need help defending all of your territory at once. |
Omnipotens Zitro
Doomheim
425
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Okay guys, you all have to realize that 0.0 won't come for at least another 1.5 years. Pretty long time.
Another problem that nobody realizes either is the battle system. In EVE you can attack multiple locations all at once because its all on the same server and you can get anywhere with no problem. You just need the numbers to do so.
In Dust it will be based on Contracts. The battles will not be instantaneous because of how the battle system will work. Hey, yeah you can have the numbers to take all the districts at once. Will it happen no. Because most of your forces will be waiting for your opponent to accept the defend contract stating that their forces are ready for battle.
I highly bet that there will be a 3 hour plus reinforcement timer for districts. So that small corp that controls the whole planet can effectively defend it without needing the numbers to defend all of them at once. All they have to do is play one game at a time. With a 3 hour plus reinforcement timer, a great corp can go through 15 districts in no time and defend it well because they are facing the same opponent over and over.
The problem with bigger corps will be when they start the attack process with multiple districts, they will be at the biggest disadvantage. Because they will need there players on standby while the defending corp can choose what district to defend at a time. They could hire another corp with the numbers to defend all the targets at once and surprise your huge corp if it wasn't in fact ready to do all the battles at once. Most likely be a 10min notice for the attacking team that the defenders are ready.
Corps with big numbers will be in a bit of a surprise when FW and Null come around as numbers will not matter. CCP has stated that FW and Null will cater to smaller corps.
The smaller more efficient Corps will be a lot more power than the corps with 300 plus members. Skill>Numbers
You can have 300 average players, but those 50 highly skilled players will be able to win every single battle. You can have 300 members but you can't fit 300 players into 16,24,32 match. So according to this, dust alliances will be irrelevant. Because you won't need help defending all of your territory at once. As I stated above if you didn't read. Corps can always hire other corps do some dirty work for you. You still have alliances if you choose to. All I was stating is that you don't have to be with a big corp or big alliance to be great at the game.
EVE tactics will not work in Dust as they are two different games with two different game mechanics. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:A small corp can hold as much as a big corp or even bigger depending on the area. Because there are choke points within each region. Like in real estate, location location. If anyone doubts this post, you obviously never heard of the 300 spartans. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Okay guys, you all have to realize that 0.0 won't come for at least another 1.5 years. Pretty long time.
Another problem that nobody realizes either is the battle system. In EVE you can attack multiple locations all at once because its all on the same server and you can get anywhere with no problem. You just need the numbers to do so.
In Dust it will be based on Contracts. The battles will not be instantaneous because of how the battle system will work. Hey, yeah you can have the numbers to take all the districts at once. Will it happen no. Because most of your forces will be waiting for your opponent to accept the defend contract stating that their forces are ready for battle.
I highly bet that there will be a 3 hour plus reinforcement timer for districts. So that small corp that controls the whole planet can effectively defend it without needing the numbers to defend all of them at once. All they have to do is play one game at a time. With a 3 hour plus reinforcement timer, a great corp can go through 15 districts in no time and defend it well because they are facing the same opponent over and over.
The problem with bigger corps will be when they start the attack process with multiple districts, they will be at the biggest disadvantage. Because they will need there players on standby while the defending corp can choose what district to defend at a time. They could hire another corp with the numbers to defend all the targets at once and surprise your huge corp if it wasn't in fact ready to do all the battles at once. Most likely be a 10min notice for the attacking team that the defenders are ready.
Corps with big numbers will be in a bit of a surprise when FW and Null come around as numbers will not matter. CCP has stated that FW and Null will cater to smaller corps.
The smaller more efficient Corps will be a lot more power than the corps with 300 plus members. Skill>Numbers
You can have 300 average players, but those 50 highly skilled players will be able to win every single battle. You can have 300 members but you can't fit 300 players into 16,24,32 match. So according to this, dust alliances will be irrelevant. Because you won't need help defending all of your territory at once. As I stated above if you didn't read. Corps can always hire other corps do some dirty work for you. You still have alliances if you choose to. All I was stating is that you don't have to be with a big corp or big alliance to be great at the game. EVE tactics will not work in Dust as they are two different games with two different game mechanics.
What I read was the point about a small corp controlling a planet and will be able to defend multiple districts because of a reinforcement time....and do not need huge numbers.
I'm sure being in an alliance will have good benefits, as far as community and certain resources. But as far as holding territory (from your assumption), they won't be necessary. Because your corp will be able to defend its territory |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Omnipotens Zitro wrote:A small corp can hold as much as a big corp or even bigger depending on the area. Because there are choke points within each region. Like in real estate, location location. If anyone doubts this post, you obviously never heard of the 300 spartans.
Works well if enemy has to march onto your territory...may work different if enemy is being dropped in ;) |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Also take into account that players won't always need to field large, powerful corps.
Sure, they're great for spearheading an attack, but they might be too "battle-hungry" to be good defenders. It might also be more effective just to send in a grunt corp as a distraction while a stealth strike-force does the real job.
Not to mention it's highly inefficient. Why spend a few hundred million ISK getting the best of the best when you just need to spend 5 million or so on a corp that isn't great, but good enough to get the job done easily enough? (Just random numbers I through out there) |
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Also take into account that players won't always need to field large, powerful corps.
Sure, they're great for spearheading an attack, but they might be too "battle-hungry" to be good defenders. It might also be more effective just to send in a grunt corp as a distraction while a stealth strike-force does the real job.
Not to mention it's highly inefficient. Why spend a few hundred million ISK getting the best of the best when you just need to spend 5 million or so on a corp that isn't great, but good enough to get the job done easily enough? (Just random numbers I through out there)
I think that will be great for new corps to get noticed. It'll be like a new business trying to enter an existing market. They have to start out selling small |
Omnipotens Zitro
Doomheim
425
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 01:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Also take into account that players won't always need to field large, powerful corps.
Sure, they're great for spearheading an attack, but they might be too "battle-hungry" to be good defenders. It might also be more effective just to send in a grunt corp as a distraction while a stealth strike-force does the real job.
Not to mention it's highly inefficient. Why spend a few hundred million ISK getting the best of the best when you just need to spend 5 million or so on a corp that isn't great, but good enough to get the job done easily enough? (Just random numbers I through out there)
Well EVE will pay millions of ISK for the best corp to go take out that Orbital cannon so it doesn't one shot there EVE ships that Cost BILLIONS!!!!!! |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 02:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Also take into account that players won't always need to field large, powerful corps.
Sure, they're great for spearheading an attack, but they might be too "battle-hungry" to be good defenders. It might also be more effective just to send in a grunt corp as a distraction while a stealth strike-force does the real job.
Not to mention it's highly inefficient. Why spend a few hundred million ISK getting the best of the best when you just need to spend 5 million or so on a corp that isn't great, but good enough to get the job done easily enough? (Just random numbers I through out there) Well EVE will pay millions of ISK for the best corp to go take out that Orbital cannon so it doesn't one shot there EVE ships that Cost BILLIONS!!!!!! Which brings up a topic: what about war barges getting hit with orbital artillery? |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2282
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 05:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
Omni where are u gettin the info on all this?
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Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1032
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 06:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Omni where are u gettin the info on all this?
he told ccp how it was going to be. all you need to remember is tuesday night bowling night |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 07:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So according to this, dust alliances will be irrelevant. Because you won't need help defending all of your territory at once. Show me what happens when someone invades your planet, KNOWING you can only defend one region at a time, and sets attack orders all over, then just draws out that one battle to take two hours. If you don't have anyone else to back you up, you're screwed.
And if you have a 50-person corp, and aren't in an alliance because "we can defend everything ourselves" tell me who's going to defend against a 32-person invasion force when 35 of your corp members are either asleep or busy with the real world? |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2282
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 11:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:Omni where are u gettin the info on all this?
he told ccp how it was going to be. all you need to remember is tuesday night bowling night
LOL just won the tourney and then laid the pimp hand down on CCP huh and yea i kno tuesday nights ppl bowling fo sure |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 12:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:
You can have 300 average players, but those 50 highly skilled players will be able to win every single battle. You can have 300 members but you can't fit 300 players into 16,24,32 match.
Is this an off the cuff comment or do you actually think the matches are not going to be bigger in size in terms of player numbers. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2282
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 14:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Omnipotens Zitro wrote:
You can have 300 average players, but those 50 highly skilled players will be able to win every single battle. You can have 300 members but you can't fit 300 players into 16,24,32 match.
Is this an off the cuff comment or do you actually think the matches are not going to be bigger in size in terms of player numbers.
tbqh game shouldnt be more than 64v64 tops imho ppl want MAG numbers but lets face it take a look at what happened to DOM when the playerbase faded, take a look at how ACQ always was?
making it take too long to get into a match will slowly kill the game. |
Omnipotens Zitro
Doomheim
425
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 15:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:xAckie wrote:Omnipotens Zitro wrote:
You can have 300 average players, but those 50 highly skilled players will be able to win every single battle. You can have 300 members but you can't fit 300 players into 16,24,32 match.
Is this an off the cuff comment or do you actually think the matches are not going to be bigger in size in terms of player numbers. tbqh game shouldnt be more than 64v64 tops imho ppl want MAG numbers but lets face it take a look at what happened to DOM when the playerbase faded, take a look at how ACQ always was? making it take too long to get into a match will slowly kill the game. I agree. Thing is we just have to have very realistic expectations on what will CCP implement. 64v64 might be the max that it ever gets and that will be on the PS4 and about after a year or two after the PS4 releases. Won't see this for at least 3 years.
16v16 will be the norm for launch as there will not be that many corps that have player base to support higher numbers even with launch numbers.
24v24 most likely wont come out for half a year after launch. Until corps starting getting higher numbers.
32v32 will not come until null sec. I even don't think it will be available at the same time null is launches. It will be implement a couple months after release. ETA after launch 1.5 + years.
I see it like this, Dust was supposed to be released in May this year. Now we will only get open beta next year. Launch will be sometime around summer of next year. Null won't come for another year plus after launch.
It's cool to be optimistic about all of dust features. But you have to be realistic. |
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fahrenheitM
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
212
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 16:09:00 -
[51] - Quote
whatever the game mechanics end up being at release, it will still have so much more endgame potential than any other FPS i've played. Matches that actually matter, not e-peen stat bravado.
Good times will be had. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 16:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Wouldn't the advantage of larger corps be there ability to hold multiple planets and accept multiple contracts at once? No on the first part. A small corp can hold as much as a big corp or even bigger depending on the area. Because there are choke points within each region. Like in real estate, location location. For the second part yes&no. Only advantage would be is that they could do multiple battles at once. Down side is there are only so many good players with in the game. So your forces would be spread thin with skill. Example: Imperfects could of field 3 teams for the tourney and would of been 1,2&3. So we can easily do three battles at once with 16v16 for districts and dominate. Zion could of have field 16+ teams . But if you had everybody face the other tourney teams, only one or two would win there respective battles because you guys don't have the skill to support 16 solid teams. Yes you guys have numbers but it doesn't mean anything if you have a 1 out of 8 chance of winning a battle.- Interesting, I was assuming (on the first part) that 16 people could actively hold maybe 2 planet worth of district themselves and be hardcore players, but 200 could hold 20 planets worth of districts if hardcore. and that same organization would have players who play casually farming isk to feed the people running planet games.
And I have no more comment for the second part, I would like a link explaining these mechanics though. |
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