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Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
95
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Posted - 2012.11.19 13:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now I know Dust is in rather early stages of development but this feature would mean A LOT.
Think about how awesome launching from a carrier and dogfighting in space would be of course some capsuleers may disagree about letting others pilot their things but look at it this way handpick your own squadron of fighters have them wait some where out of sight and ambush your enemy.
[-ºOON Gäó] |
EternalRMG
10
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Posted - 2012.11.19 14:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
I support this
But dogfight in the sky would be better |
Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
95
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Posted - 2012.11.19 14:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
EternalRMG wrote:I support this
But dogfight in the sky would be better
Soon my friend soonGäó |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
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Posted - 2012.11.19 15:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
And perhaps we can have capsuleers controlling MCCs (not sarcasm) |
Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
95
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Posted - 2012.11.19 15:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Capsuleers might buy and take control of MCCs , yes. |
WHz DS9899
Doomheim
136
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Posted - 2012.11.19 15:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
because they are better pilots than us with big ships? yea. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.11.19 18:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bhor Derri wrote:Now I know Dust is in rather early stages of development but this feature would mean A LOT. Think about how awesome launching from a carrier and dogfighting in space would be of course some capsuleers may disagree about letting others pilot their things but look at it this way handpick your own squadron of fighters have them wait some where out of sight and ambush your enemy. [-ºOON Gäó]
All the lag you can possibly imagine. Sounds neat in theory, but would only be a headache in practice. These things are fine as they are. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.11.19 19:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Won't happen, it would be too much of a lag fest. You also wont find a carrier sitting still long enough to get pilots to queue up . |
Kharga Lum
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
33
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Posted - 2012.11.19 20:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm sure aircraft in Dust will happen. Flying fighters in Eve, no. It would be very very boring for the fighter pilot. In Eve fighter-fighter combat never happens. It's usually easier to kill the carrier then to target the fighters. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.19 21:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kharga Lum wrote:In Eve fighter-fighter combat never happens. It's usually easier to kill the carrier then to target the fighters.
So it never happens, but it usually happens after killing the carrier?
Please explain how that makes any sense? |
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nix zaroch
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2012.11.19 23:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
the mcc should have a hanger in back so you can spawn in your vehicles before being under fire. Dropships could just fly out but LAVs and HAVs would have an inertia dampener so you could drive them out. |
Kharga Lum
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
33
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Posted - 2012.11.20 02:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Kharga Lum wrote:In Eve fighter-fighter combat never happens. It's usually easier to kill the carrier then to target the fighters. So it never happens, but it usually happens after killing the carrier? Please explain how that makes any sense?
After killing the carrier the fighters go idle. As a Carrier/Super Carrier pilot I don't want my fighters or bombers to wonder off because they got bored orbiting and attacking the target I told them too. It would also be difficult to find your parent ship after the battle with all the HUD clutter.
In Dust there should be a varient, an alternate airship to the DS. |
angelarch
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
93
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Posted - 2012.11.20 13:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
nix zaroch wrote:the mcc should have a hanger in back so you can spawn in your vehicles before being under fire. Dropships could just fly out but LAVs and HAVs would have an inertia dampener so you could drive them out.
Ha ha, driving out the back of the MCC in a LAV and inertia damp impact on the ground would be pretty awesome i think!
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Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
95
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Posted - 2012.11.20 15:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Believe me there are battlefront vets that loves torping other capitals :D |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
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Posted - 2012.11.20 15:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
angelarch wrote:nix zaroch wrote:the mcc should have a hanger in back so you can spawn in your vehicles before being under fire. Dropships could just fly out but LAVs and HAVs would have an inertia dampener so you could drive them out. Ha ha, driving out the back of the MCC in a LAV and inertia damp impact on the ground would be pretty awesome i think!
It's more fun when you do a jump off of a building and land on a red you didn't notice until that very second. |
Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
95
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Posted - 2012.12.04 10:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ok so I had a pretty neat idea so I decided to revive this thread:
What if you could use a boarding craft ,I'm talking about the ships that drill through another ship,that would allow dust mercenaries to capture , kill , force self destruct or blow it up from the inside.
Again it may not be possible now but 'Never let anyone tell you the odds' :D |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2012.12.04 10:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bhor Derri wrote:Now I know Dust is in rather early stages of development but this feature would mean A LOT. Think about how awesome launching from a carrier and dogfighting in space would be of course some capsuleers may disagree about letting others pilot their things but look at it this way handpick your own squadron of fighters have them wait some where out of sight and ambush your enemy. [-ºOON Gäó]
Nice idea, and I'd love to play it, but in my view this should be a third game in the New Eden franchise, along side Eve and Dust. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.12.04 13:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like the idea, but it does sound like a third game. It would have to be a directly controlled craft on the eve grid, the dust client is not set up for the eve grid and eve doesn't allow that kind of control. It could be a bridge between the games if both dust marines and EvE pilots could train the skill book to fly the fighters, if they log into the new third client.
EvE fighters and fighter-bombers, unlike other eve drones, are described as manned. If a a fighter had a player pilot it would have higher stats from the players skill, and maybe modules. They could also not use drone bandwidth from the carrier, so any player controlled drones would be extra from the capital pilots point of view. Without bandwidth needed, they wouldn't go dormant if the carrier is destroyed. So, there would be a need to kill the manned fighters and making niche for dogfights. |
Governor Odius
Doomheim
177
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Posted - 2012.12.04 13:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
At any given time across the entirety of New Eden there are maybe a few dozen carriers involved in some sort of engagement. Most of them will be doing PvE. Many of them will be in triage mode, which prevents them from deploying fighters.
Not to mention that a flight simulator doesn't work with EVE's mechanics. Whether or not you get hit by a turret blast is a function of your radial velocity relative to the shooter, your sig radius, and the turret's sig resolution. Thus you'd either be getting hit or not, as determined by a dice roll, rather than dodging and juking as we would expect in a flight simulator.
Finally, no carrier pilot is going to want a bunch of morons jacking up their engagement by not following orders, something AI drones are incapable of but DUST players do as a favorite hobby.  |
Zanzbar clone
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
6
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Posted - 2012.12.04 16:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Been suggested many times on the eve forums and has been shot down for the same reasons each time.
1. The eve server only updates once per second making it unplayable in a twitch control dogfight scenario such as this. It works fine for eves style of play but anything more maneuverable than a frigate would have serious playablity issues.
2. Drone always obey ( well almost always) players not so much
3. There are technical issues with having somebody fly and be in control of something that you own and still have partial controll over.
4. Fighters aren't cheap. I don't know about you but I don't want some random guy on PSN to jump in one of my firebolgs and take it for a joyride with little to know understanding of its value to me, and then lose it to inexperience as I watch my 15 mil isk fighter go boom. And that brigs up another question, if he losses it who pays the price?, me or him |
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Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
95
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Posted - 2012.12.04 17:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
It won't be random as I've said 'handpicking'
And eve could get an update to allow that to happen I mean why not? Why the Kitts would you not want that?? Don't be so Damn near sighted |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United
Relativity Alliance
152
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Posted - 2012.12.04 18:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bhor Derri wrote:It won't be random as I've said 'handpicking'
And eve could get an update to allow that to happen I mean why not? Why the Kitts would you not want that?? Don't be so Damn near sighted
They'd need to redo the game mechanics for piloting and combat. Limit the amount of people in system and on grid. Plus build physics. Not doable the way it's set up. If they did just fighters then you'd undock and just run right into everything. You'd have zero control due to lag. Even someone sitting right next to the server wouldn't be able to operate a fighter. |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2012.12.04 19:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Unfortunately, this is not going to happen in EVE Online space. Ever. I wish it was otherwise.
The only way this would work as you see it would be to change the core mechanics of the MMO so drastically that it becomes a completely different game - at which point CCP might as well give it a different name as well.
This is the only time that I am going to mention this:
If you want your functionality bad enough, wait until Chris Robert's Star Citizen comes out. Although its combat is "instanced", it is the only known game that might be a direct competitor to the EVE universe.
I will not speak of that game on these forums again, unless somebody else brings it up in the Locker Room. |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2012.12.04 20:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
This would make a very good addition to the Eve universe (as a separate game), catering to a much more casual gamer than Eve.
I'm thinking it would be based on faction war, with the carriers being NPC controlled. Small fights, maybe 8 per side?
You'd log in, squad up and join the next available battle for the faction of your choice. Launch from your carrier, fight the enemy fighters, then the fighter bombers would come in and blow up the enemy carrier. Back to the hangar and pick another game.
I imagine it as a PC game (or maybe multi-platform), with one option being to launch it within the Eve client as a mini-game if you are docked up in station.
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Zanzbar clone
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
6
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Posted - 2012.12.04 23:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bhor Derri wrote:It won't be random as I've said 'handpicking'
And eve could get an update to allow that to happen I mean why not? Why the Kitts would you not want that?? Don't be so Damn near sighted
Ok let's say they gave you a reason as a carrier pilot to want people controlling them, maybe allow for a dust players vehicle skills to make the a bit more powerful/maneuverable/ tanky then the basic AI controlled ones. This is all plausible and within reason so long as carrier pilot has the final say at the end.
However,this still doesn't solve the issue of the server running at 1hz. The current eve server code is limited in that none of its processes can be split into multiple threads. in other words all the action in a given system, and in most cases multiple systems, is all being calculated by a single core on one of the servers CPUs. So if you wanted to move the server refresh up to say 10hz so that it had enough responsiveness to make fighter combat plausible then the server would only be able to handle 10% as many people per system and that's not a sacrifice worth making.
For this idea, as well as a lot of other ideas people have for the game, the game would have to be reprogrammed from the ground up to allow for seamless multi cored processing across the board, that's thousands of lines of code that would need to be rewritten to make this happen. Even then it questionable if current hardware technology would allow for such a thing without sacrificing some of the things that make eve what it is.
TLDR : the idea would be cool if and when it can work, but its going to be really really SOONGäó before that happens. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.12.05 00:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Most people, including scifi people don't realize this, but dogfighting in space would be VERY different than what its like on a planet. No wings needed since you don't need to generate lift, and no need to deal with drag. This means fighters should be able to perform maneuvers in all directions with quick jerky motions.
http://youtu.be/L0Vb_WT9uAs?t=5m5s This documentary segment explains it, and lets you see it.
I would be totally open to this kind of dog digfighting, and would prefer it over Battlestar Galactica style dogfights, but I'm not sure others would. |
Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
95
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Posted - 2012.12.05 22:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Support would be appreciated. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.12.06 02:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nope.
Best laid plans.
Ruined by lag.
Believe me, there's no way this is possible either now or in the near future. Maybe 5 years from now we can get something like this, but personally I'd be perfectly happy to see the two games remain segregated in this respect.
For an example, look at Star Citizen. They have almost 10 pages of description of a dynamic instancing system the game will use to prevent massive scale fights because the lag would make them unplayable. EVE operates the way it does to allow the scale of PvP that it does, and mixing in free-flying ships flown by console players with the ability to poll the server with hundreds of movement requests per minute is a bad idea. |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
238
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Posted - 2012.12.06 03:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
I can see it happening later. Much Later, also eve..... |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.12.06 03:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
DarkShadowFox wrote:I can see it happening later. Much Later, also eve.....
Just spent an hour discussing this with Telc in IRC.
I honestly can't see a reason for manual piloting in EVE when development could be put into far more useful things that wouldn't just cause more lag. Same goes with trying to integrate EVE into Dust in this manner. |
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