An update of my own; I have come to the conclusion that the hit detection of basic melee is complete crap. If the enemy is moving, then less than half of my hits actually do damage. I still hear the hit make contact and get shield glow, but it doesn't do a damn thing to their health bar all too often. If I'm behind an enemy who's running forwards, then I can pretty much forget about trying to hurt them unless they turn around or come to a dead stop. I imagine this might be related to the hit detection issues that snipers get when they land their hits but don't do damage.

Have you found any REAL advantages to using nova knives over breach scrambler pistols for this type of gameplay?

Have you found any REAL advantages to using nova knives over breach scrambler pistols for this type of gameplay?

That's kind of missing the point, the purpose isn't to really be competitive, but to have the fun and satisfaction of taking people out with nova knives and melee alone. And I think a shotgun would be more useful using similar strategies, anyway.

A couple of quick questions:

1. Which does more damage: A Nova Knife or a Scrambler Pistol? Assuming equal tech level, comparable skills, etc. applied to each.

2. Can you get "Headshots" with Nova Knives? Do they deal bonus damage if you aim for the right part of a target? And if so, do they hit harder than Scrambler Pistols on a headshot?

Two very good questions. Glad you asked.

I just quick a look at the market comparing an Ishukone Nova Knife to the Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol and the Viziam Scrambler Pistol. Please note that these figures are not accounting for skillbooks since the attributes don't appear to change (possible bug) in the info window. For the sake of this finding due to the major design differences of both the pistol and the knife, I calculated how much damage each weapon can do in 5 seconds which seems to be a very reasonable about of time for both weapons to effective damage. After all, most close quarter combat situations tend to last only 5 seconds before someone dies.

Ishukone Nova Knife
Damage: 195 HP/hit
Charge Time: 0.5 seconds or half a second
Accounting for the amount of time it takes for the knife to discharge against an opponent before being able to recharge again: 585 HP every 5 seconds with a total of three hits. That basically widdles down half the armor of tough heavy suits in 5 seconds.

Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol
Damage: 84 HP/shot
Clip Size: 6 rounds
Accounting for the amount of time it takes for the pistol to reload and its high rate of fire: 504 HP total with 6 six rounds fired in 5 seconds.

Viziam Scrambler Pistol
Damage: 84 HP/shot
Clip Size: 6 rounds
Accounting for the amount of time it takes for the pistol to reload and its slightly lower rate of fire: About the same as the Carthum in 5 seconds.

As you can see, the Nova Knife is actually better than the scrambler pistol in terms of damage output. Again, this is not accounting for skillbooks and this is based on situations in which two opponents are facing off against each other up close and personal where range is a moot point.

The Nova Knife has two skillbooks working for it. Nova Knife Operation which reduces the charge time by 5% per level. However, since where are talking about 0.5 seconds here, the 5% bonus is hardly noticeable. The Nova Knife Proficiency gives +3% damage per level. Here, the effect becomes much more noticeable because of the HP/hit the knife has over the pistol.

The Scrambler Pistol has more than two skillbooks working for it. But we will only focus on two. The Scrambler Pistol Operation grants +1 clip size. At level 5 you get 5 additional rounds per clip and thus dish out 11 hits. That brings the total to 924 HP in five seconds assuming you can squeeze each round within that time frame. The Scrambler Pistol Proficiency grants a bonus of +3% damage per level. However, because of the lower HP per round, the effect is not as noticeable compared to the clip size.

Let's do the math.

Nova Knife:
Damage: (((((195*1.03)1.03)1.03)1.03)1.03)=226.06 at level 5 proficiency

Pistol:
Damage: Same formula as above only replace 195 with 84 = 97.38 at level 5 proficiency

Now for more math.

Knife:
Damage: 226.06 HP multiplied by 3 hits in 5 seconds = 678.18 HP/5 sec

Pistol:
Damage: 97.38 HP multiplied by 11 hits in 5 seconds = 1071.18 HP/5sec

With the skillbooks accounted for, the pistol wins in terms of damage output as the pistol can practically widdle down almost all of an enemy merc's heavy armor in 5 seconds.

This is not accounting for the Weaponry skillbook. Even with that added, it makes no difference for the knife because the pistol will still come out on top and it's all thanks to its 5 extra rounds.

I have a question, too! Is the Nova Knife a viable option for a support Logi to carry? Or is this weapon only useful for the ninja-types? With only one weapon slot, I'm hesitant to sample such a...errmmm...atypical weapon. Plus the skill point investment, of course.

Am I immediately promoted to an experienced knifer if I average 1 to 3 kills with it as a secondary and having a dedicated knifer using myofibs?

At this point, I managed to skill up to the Prototype Nova Knife that has the most damage at 190+ HP per strike and a charge up timer of only 0.5 seconds. Fitted on the sidearm slot with 2x enhanced sidearm damage modifiers on the (--) slots and 2x enhanced kinetic catalyst mods on the (-) slots with an advanced dropsuit and this combination is lethal if you are able to sneak in on someone successfully.

Think about it. In just 5 seconds you can stab someone three times while dealing a overall total of at least 570 HP within those 5 seconds. This is not accounting for the Nova Knife Proficiency skillbook which adds an additional +3% damage to the knife per level.

A couple of things out of these two paragraphs, one of which pretty clearly show the problem with Knives.

1. Prototype Nova Knives deal 190 damage with a 0.5 second charge, but requires you to be at point-blank range. That's in comparison with the Militia Sniper Rifle, which has a charge time of ZERO seconds, and has PRACTICALLY INFINITE range in comparison, and deals... 185 damage. Only FIVE damage less than your Prototype Nova Knives. Not even a 3% difference in damage between the two weapons.

2. I'm pretty sure that, even if you start charging when you're already engaged in combat, 0.5 seconds charge time wouldn't require 5 seconds to swing 3 times. Unless each swing takes about 1.5 seconds, this doesn't make sense. And if it DOES take that long to swing, there's another disadvantage.

Sorry for the very late response to the comment on the top page about my advice.

Yes you do have my advice a little bit off, but I do think you have i you're second response in that post.

What I was stating is that we all know is that if you sprint it cancels your charge. But what you can do is sprint then when in range jump you can charge your strike in the air. Land with it charged, but you are now reduced to walking speed. It is just you are now closer with the knives charged than you would have been charging and walking. Yes I know it is only a fraction of seconds but that time matters when you barely have time and need to stab someone to kill them. You just have to know how to aim your jump well.

Post #5 updated. Very important.

First, even though I compared a ranged weapon to the nova knife earlier, my comparison was with overall damage output only. You make a similar comparison but with range as part of the equation. Of course a ranged weapon is always going to be better than the knife even if CCP were to allow us to start throwing them. Is that all your point is about? If so, you just further proves my point on how challenging it becomes to wield a knife. The challenge is all that matters to me. Nothing else.

Second, as for the three strikes in five seconds thing, I tested it out. The animation is what causes the delay in terms of discharging the weapon.

Nova Knife:
Damage: (((((195*1.03)1.03)1.03)1.03)1.03)=226.06 at level 5 proficiency

Pistol:
Damage: Same formula as above only replace 195 with 84 = 97.38 at level 5 proficiency

Hey Maken! Good to see you in a random match that we did. I know you probably don't remember me, but i noticed you were running around with an AR? I was hoping you didn't give up Nova Knifing but once I saw this thread it made me smile. I guess you were running Militia to build up ISK to get your knives back? Anyways, good to play with you again!

One thing I wanted to ask you though: I saw this earlier in your thread...Isn't it

195 * (1 + 0.03 + 0.03 + 0.03 + 0.03 + 0.03)

instead? From what I thought, the higher the skill level the more percentile damage is added on (+3% each skill level, +15% when maxed)? Or am I wrong with this?

@Kaze

Nah, I haven't given up yet. It's just to recuperate the ISK. Running with the ninja fit that I use is expensive. We're talking about at least 100,000 ISK per fit plus the AUR for the suit. Of course, I could use the ISK-based suits instead, but I just like the 'Kindred' color.

As for the math, it has always been taught to me that when you increase a base value multiple times by the same percentage you have to first multiply the base value with the first percentage to get the product. Once you have the product, you multiply that with the same percentage again for the next level value. Repeat until you reach level 5.

After doing some experimenting, I found another formula that leads to the same answer although with more decimal placements.

EHP=B*(1+x)^(y)

Where 'B' is the base value before bonuses, "x" is the bonus percentage per level, and "y" is the number of levels.

195*1.03^(5)=226.0584444885 or 226.06

I hate math.

That's the way eve works also. The bonuses work off of the product before it. Generally damage, resistances and all other bonuses are cut at the third decimal. So actually 226.058.

FIxed that for you.

Unless you MEANT to say that your damage goes up 515% instead of only 15% ?