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Dev Mason
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
17
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Posted - 2012.11.13 03:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
One of the worst things any gamer can do is worry about their K/D, in my personal opinion, in a game like Dust, sometimes you gotta let your K/D go and just throw clones at that one objective you need to win, sometimes you just gotta say **** it and charge in their, as a team, guns blazing and all. So you can take it over, but the problem is, that all these players from games like BF3 (Which I love and play all the time) and COD (has gotten old) come in and there too scared to help so they sit back and snipe worried for their precious K/D.
Heres the problem, you have 5 red dots camping A in the 3 point map, you also have 3 team mates rushing up that canyon pass, as they turn that corner they let all there fire go, but its just not enough to overwhelm the enemy. At the same time, you have 3 K/D loving idiots sniping from C, whats the problem here?
Two things,
one- Red dots are usually smarter than blue dots, and will hide behind the mountain so the snipers cant touch them and just wait for those blues to come around.
two- not all of you, but most of you blue dots suck at sniping anyway, so while your sitting back sniping thinking your actually helping, your not hitting anything and team mates are dying because your gun wasn't backing them up.
People in this game NEED to stop letting there K/D get in the way and just charge, throw everything they got at it, play as a team, with there team. Your team needs you to help, because if your playing a skirmish game, you need those Objectives, you need to destroy that MCC and you need A B and C, sometimes D and sometimes E. but their all needed to win the game.
And a sniper honestly does no help at all. |
HowDidThatTaste
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2242
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Posted - 2012.11.13 03:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Welcome. |
Wako 75
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
76
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Posted - 2012.11.13 04:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
just because you rush the objective doesnt mean you die if you have everyone overwhelm the team most of the time nobody dies (unless your rushing me) even with a sniper rifle stay moveing for the team im not saying rush but just get in a vantage point and start covering us people that are rushing. snipers if your in cover look at your map and tell av where tanks are if i knew where they were i would switch to forge and start shooting at them (i need more practice with forge anyways). we need nanohives logi im tired of running out of ammo and not haveing anything to really kill with. and people that rush start pushing up with the tanks. ive been in 2 games recently where i was in a tank killing people and covering and nobody would push
Orbital for the win |
NarNacho Cheese
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
8
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Posted - 2012.11.13 04:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
See, you just are in the wrong corp buddy, Join STB and we will back u up all the way to that beautiful Red Line :) as for logi dusters need, you're looking at one wako. lets play :) |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
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Posted - 2012.11.13 04:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
See, you are mistaking caring about KDR for sniping. Isolate the correct problem. Honestly though, the inability to go positive a majority of your matches (in pubs at least) means you are below average, no ands ifs or buts. If you have 3 guys assaulting 5, if the 3 guys are better than the 5, they will still win. I vent on coms, but I know the truth of the matter in reality is if I die, it is my fault. |
Dev Mason
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
17
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Posted - 2012.11.13 05:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ok i admit I got sidetracked when venting and forgot to mention one other major problem, blue dots with assault rifles who dont help. Same problem, they wana hide the whole time, and when asked wtf theyre doing, we usually get bitched out by some kid about how we suck because their K/D is better, but their W/L is usually terrible |
skinn trayde
On The Brink
82
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Posted - 2012.11.13 08:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
the key message here is "screw K/Dr, play for the team / corp / alliance / faction! "
team players are winners not whiners! |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
206
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Posted - 2012.11.13 08:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
skinn trayde wrote:the key message here is "screw K/Dr, play for the team / corp / alliance / faction! "
team players are winners not whiners!
How much are u TRULY helping ur team if u are neg bombing every match? Lets be honest. Everybody cares at least a little about their K/D. Even those that care more about winning then how many times they die.
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skinn trayde
On The Brink
82
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Posted - 2012.11.13 08:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
KripnawtiQ Prime wrote:skinn trayde wrote:the key message here is "screw K/Dr, play for the team / corp / alliance / faction! "
team players are winners not whiners! How much are u TRULY helping ur team if u are neg bombing every match? Lets be honest. Everybody cares at least a little about their K/D. Even those that care more about winning then how many times they die.
while i agree about neg bombing the OPs point of team play over individual glory is what resonates with me, the odd bullet sponge attracting the attention of the red dots can sometimes (not always) be a good thing. |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
206
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Posted - 2012.11.13 09:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
skinn trayde wrote:KripnawtiQ Prime wrote:skinn trayde wrote:the key message here is "screw K/Dr, play for the team / corp / alliance / faction! "
team players are winners not whiners! How much are u TRULY helping ur team if u are neg bombing every match? Lets be honest. Everybody cares at least a little about their K/D. Even those that care more about winning then how many times they die. while i agree about neg bombing the OPs point of team play over individual glory is what resonates with me, the odd bullet sponge attracting the attention of the red dots can sometimes (not always) be a good thing.
True story. It doesnt hurt to take 1 for the team once in awhile. (thats 1 not 12 lolol) |
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Timothy Reaper
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
321
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Posted - 2012.11.13 10:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've helped my team by stopping bullets with my face on many occasions. |
dudeytron
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
69
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Posted - 2012.11.13 10:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
The simple fix is to remove the KDR from Skirmish matches. For Skirmish, it's an irrelevant scoring system. And if it were gone, the snipers might descend from the mountains and lend a hand to gain some WP.
Ambush - Fine...have your KDR, as that's what that game is all about. |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
206
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Posted - 2012.11.13 11:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
dudeytron wrote:The simple fix is to remove the KDR from Skirmish matches. For Skirmish, it's an irrelevant scoring system. And if it were gone, the snipers might descend from the mountains and lend a hand to gain some WP.
Ambush - Fine...have your KDR, as that's what that game is all about.
Mmm...I think people would still snipe...especially on maps such as manus peak. For various reasons that have been discussed already in numerous other threads...thats just the way it is right now. |
Gauder Berwyck
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
217
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Posted - 2012.11.13 12:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Easy fix (has been suggested other times by other people):
Make losing a match give only half the ISK payout or something like that. Make it so that it's worth it to win! |
ReGnUm UNSTOPPABLE DEI
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
80
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Posted - 2012.11.13 13:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
LOL at OP, KDR is everything. KDR separates the good from the bad, and anybody player who tries deludes their self's from this fact, does not understand FPS's.
A Good KDR might mean hes a Camper or a Sniper. However, you know what a bad KDR tells me?
1. HE HAS BAD GUN GAME
2. HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE MAP
3. HE TAKES TO MANY RISKS
4. HE IS NOT A SURVIVOR
All the above traits are undesirable
KDR > EVERYTHING |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
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Posted - 2012.11.13 13:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dev Mason wrote:Red dots are usually smarter than blue dots +1
Brilliant quote ... certainly true in randoms battles. |
Pranekt Tyrvoth
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
177
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Posted - 2012.11.13 13:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Points I'd like to add with my three cents (not two cents, as I always provide at least three cents worth of insight).
1) If the majority of a given team is sniping, it's likely because they've realized they're wholly incapable of changing the outcome or have nothing they can personally do at that point to influence the battle in a meaningful way.
2) By playing skirmish in the current build, without being able to bring more than yourself +3 others in a single squad (i.e. no squad linking, no multi-squad join on same team, no team auto-balancing, auto-switching), you must acknowledge that more often than not the fate of your victory/loss is determined by the incompetence of the blue dots. I've gone 25-0/1 + in plenty of skirmish matches, only to lose anyway due to derping bluedots.
3) Most snipers in this game are pretty bad, and few of them seem to care if it helps or detracts from the the team.
4) Just like with Heavies in this game, there's only a small amount of Snipers with any skill at all. In fact there's really only about 10 good heavy players and 10 good sniper in my estimation, I could try listing them all but I'm too lazy. The rest are rubbish.
5) Most of the people who are doing so poorly in matches likely don't care about KDR, most players with good KDR are already making a difference anyway or have resigned to the fate of the match (in instances where the incompetent team plagues you).
6) lol despite that regnum doesn't say things so... eloquently sometimes, I have to agree with him. If some guy with a kdr of like 0.5 wants to squad with me, I'm going to be inclined to say no as I don't feel like carrying that dead weight. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.13 13:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
When I used to play Transformers: War for Cybertron, I had several games where I ran 0:7 or 1:8 or worse, and afterwards, had everyone on my team commenting about the fact that I was the reason we won.
In Team Deathmatch.
In the current build of the DUST 514 beta, I've had a few Ambush matches where I've been able to clearly see the impact I had on the battle, I've made an obvious difference that tipped the scales in my team's favour, while achieving no more than 1 kill and suffering between 2 and 7 deaths.
Why? How? Because medics are awesome. But sometimes, we don't have guns.
Also, Regnum, get that guy running 20-0 out of his tank, and try telling me he has gun game when you can outgun his AR with your SMG at long range. Different players are good in different roles on the battlefield. Not all of those roles offer equal K/D opportunities. |
Pranekt Tyrvoth
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
177
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
The logis and "healers" I'm used to working with typically have between 2-4 k/dr.
I agree with your statement about not all opportunities being the same depending on your role, my games running with a forge gun are no where near the same quality in terms of kills unless I spend the whole match forge-sniping, which isn't really the purpose of my builds...
Nevertheless, I'd rather take a nano-injector user with atleast a kdr of 2 than one that dies often. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
338
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Remove kills death from score board just have warpoints will solve most problems and let those that care cry their the wrong type of player for this game |
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ReGnUm UNSTOPPABLE DEI
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
80
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:When I used to play Transformers: War for Cybertron, I had several games where I ran 0:7 or 1:8 or worse, and afterwards, had everyone on my team commenting about the fact that I was the reason we won.
In Team Deathmatch.
In the current build of the DUST 514 beta, I've had a few Ambush matches where I've been able to clearly see the impact I had on the battle, I've made an obvious difference that tipped the scales in my team's favour, while achieving no more than 1 kill and suffering between 2 and 7 deaths.
Why? How? Because medics are awesome. But sometimes, we don't have guns.
Also, Regnum, get that guy running 20-0 out of his tank, and try telling me he has gun game when you can outgun his AR with your SMG at long range. Different players are good in different roles on the battlefield. Not all of those roles offer equal K/D opportunities.
LOL Healers are not awesome, Id rather have one slayer for every 10 healers
Furthermore, I pretty sure you going 2-7 in ambush, had a major impact on winning the game...DERP
Honestly, what can a Logi do what I can't already do ???
Repair ME...oh wait I already got advance repair MOD
Give ammo...oh wait I already got a better Nano hive
Pick me...Maybe...I have only been revived once this build, and that was omni in his assault suit LOL
playing support is not excuse for having a poor KDR
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Pranekt Tyrvoth
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
177
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
In reference to the "sometimes we don't have guns" comment.
You are providing no real benefit to your team in any competitive sense if you aren't both reviving and gun-gaming. In fact even going neutral (1.0 kdr) is not actually of benefit to your team except in that you aren't dying more than you are killing.
Skill = skill. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 15:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Running an Assault or Logi suit with a Repair Tool and supporting a group of 3 - 5 Heavies in Ambush gets the Heavies a lot more kills and a lot less deaths.
I saved lives more often than I died. In War for Cybertron, and in DUST Ambush matches. If I basically rebuild an entire heavy suit (even proto repair mods take FOREVER to patch them up when they're badly damaged), That means it can tank its way through another 2 or 3 Snipers.
That game where I had 7 deaths? I had 5 heavies who ranged between 5 and 10 kills each with 0 deaths thanks to me. If I hadn't been repping, they would have either spent more downtime hiding from battle to regen their armour, or they would have died more and spent extra time respawning instead of fighting. One option requires luck AND reduces their kill counts, the other reduces the kill count less, but also hands kills to the enemy team that I prevented.
I'd call that a positive result. |
Pranekt Tyrvoth
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
177
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Posted - 2012.11.13 15:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
So what you're saying is, despite that you apparently had a wall of 3-5 large meatshields, you still managed to die seven times, and that you supported some very mediocre heavies.
As a heavy player I completely understand and appreciate the support of a good logi.
However, by good logi I mean...
1) Logi does not have to rep me the whole time, only when my health is actually low.
2) I'd prefer Logi attacks targets that are not close enough for me to engage with HMG, instead of sitting behind me uselessly.
3) If said logi can't score a couple kills on their own at least, it doesn't seem as if they are trying (very-hard/at-all).
4) Attempting to revive anyone with a weak revive tool [if they actually wanted it/needed it] doesn't really help them, reviving with 80% or better can and does - if you aren't doing that, you aren't helping.
5) If the heavies you were supporting 'died' at any point, their death still counted and is reflected in their score, the only difference is (just like with every other dropsuit), their dropsuit was not expended due to the revive. You saved them money and potentially helped them get back to fighting quicker, you didn't necessarily help the battle or offset the fact that a death = a death.
6) Please stop using other game references to validate yourself in Dust. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 15:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote:So what you're saying is, despite that you apparently had a wall of 3-5 large meatshields, you still managed to die seven times, and that you supported some very mediocre heavies.
As a heavy player I completely understand and appreciate the support of a good logi.
However, by good logi I mean...
1) Logi does not have to rep me the whole time, only when my health is actually low.
2) I'd prefer Logi attacks targets that are not close enough for me to engage with HMG, instead of sitting behind me uselessly.
3) If said logi can't score a couple kills on their own at least, it doesn't seem as if they are trying (very-hard/at-all).
4) Attempting to revive anyone with a weak revive tool [if they actually wanted it/needed it] doesn't really help them, reviving with 80% or better can and does - if you aren't doing that, you aren't helping.
5) If the heavies you were supporting 'died' at any point, their death still counted and is reflected in their score, the only difference is (just like with every other dropsuit), their dropsuit was not expended due to the revive. You saved them money and potentially helped them get back to fighting quicker, you didn't necessarily help the battle or offset the fact that a death = a death.
6) Please stop using other game references to validate yourself in Dust. 1. Enemy team was Sniper- and Vehicle-heavy. I died, because I got one-shotted from outside ALL of our effective ranges, not just the Heavy's but my own as well. And I still managed to get back to them before they died. For the most part, the tanks died before they did much damage (2 Forge Guns, and there was an Assault running around with a decent Swarm Launcher for most of the match), but I did get one-shotted by missiles twice. Heavies survived, and again, I managed to respawn and get back to them before the enemy team could take real advantage of the damage they took.
2. I did. That drew the enemies into HMG range, and I got Assists. Or exposed them to our teams snipers, who got me Assists.
3. I was trying to make the Heavies survived an abundance of sniper fire. And it worked.
4. I didn't need to revive them. They never fell.
5. Again, they didn't die. They backed up into cover for a few seconds while I repped them.
6. I've had more experience healing in other games, which have existed longer, and in which I've had more time to spend, and the mechanics for the game I'm using as an example are comparable - there was a repair gun which couldn't be used at the same time as other weapons. In Fall of Cybertron (the sequel), healing is provided by an ability separate from your weapon, so I can heal WHILE shooting. My K/D skyrocketed in comparison with the equivalent playstyle in the previous game.
EDIT: I'm not saying K/D doesn't matter. I'm not even saying that K/D doesn't matter for Logi players. I'm just saying that it isn't ALWAYS relevant - EVEN when you're talking about a TDM mode - when you have healing abilities or tools that can be of more value than your average-at-best gun game. |
ICECREAMK1NG
WARRIORS 1NC
391
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Posted - 2012.11.13 16:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote:In reference to the "sometimes we don't have guns" comment.
You are providing no real benefit to your team in any competitive sense if you aren't both reviving and gun-gaming. In fact even going neutral (1.0 kdr) is not actually of benefit to your team except in that you aren't dying more than you are killing.
Skill = skill.
Skill.............STFU.
Is it skill to go back and forth in a tank blowing the crap out of everything on the map.
Is it skill to slowboat a dropship in circles round the map doing same.
Is it skill to gang bang Av guys with no defence trying to at least do something about the above.
Is it skill to have four corp squads against 16 randoms.
Is it skill to use a modded controlled full auto tac or pistol etc.
Is it skill to hide in the red line with your proto sniper.
I could go on and on............... Basically. GTFO.
EDIT........... This game has no skill, but it has BS in abundance. |
Mace Karren
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
24
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Posted - 2012.11.13 16:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
As a crappy rifleman, I have to make myself useful by hacking, reviving allies and being a distraction. I think that makes me more valuable than the three snipers cowering in the red line, regardless of my KDR. |
ICECREAMK1NG
WARRIORS 1NC
391
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Posted - 2012.11.13 19:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mace Karren wrote:As a crappy rifleman, I have to make myself useful by hacking, reviving allies and being a distraction. I think that makes me more valuable than the three snipers cowering in the red line, regardless of my KDR.
Yes you're right it does.
But I suggest you go play something where you get thanks and rewarded for doing it, because you will not in this. |
Tyrus 4
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
83
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Posted - 2012.11.13 19:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
dudeytron wrote:The simple fix is to remove the KDR from Skirmish matches. For Skirmish, it's an irrelevant scoring system. And if it were gone, the snipers might descend from the mountains and lend a hand to gain some WP.
Ambush - Fine...have your KDR, as that's what that game is all about.
No, don't remove. De-emphasize.
the solution is here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41225&find=unread |
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