DUST Search - Vehicle Deployment "Cap" Per Game

Cross Atu wrote:

ISK isn't unlimited, current market prices are NPC based (in other words don't expect them to stay this cheap) and we still don't have Orbitals in game (PS yes, OB no). There are already caps present in the intended function of the game, it's just that we're not seeing their effects because they're mostly not enabled currently.

Just wait, when kill mails are enabled in EVE for ground side targets watch the skies burn.
There will be orbitals dropped into districts from EVE players who aren't on either side of the FW battle going on.
There are even some EVE pilots who might considering firing on their own side if there are enough Proto vehicles on the field.

What's that you say? Maybe there will be limits on shooting from the sky, perhaps something like needing a man on the ground? Well, that wouldn't be remotely the biggest betrayal of the history of New Eden (and that's not even considering the ability to make alts).

Even leaving all the above aside, CCP has stated they're aiming for it to take 2-3 weeks to get proto in a given area. So lets say 6 weeks to get proto Forge & Swarms. Lets say that for some reason no one goes AV at launch, so add another 3 weeks. Ok so that's 9 weeks after launch before vehicles are one supply depot or spawn away from facing a team full of proto AV. Seems alright, especially when you consider that it'll take that first three weeks for them to properly skill up anyway.

Note I say all of this as someone who does not pilot a ship, tank or lav (aside from the freebie) and who does not possess an AV fit in this build. I personally have no answer right now for a hostile vehicle on the field but I still do alright for myself (I hit the SP cap even tho I have kids and commitments and I make enough ISK to donate millions to my corp. And all that's playing as a Logi, and having gun skills with 8 years of rust on them. I'm an ok player but I'm no Zitro or Zan and I'm doing more than alright for myself, so it seems to me that the situation can't really be all that bad.

Just my 0.02 ISK
Cross

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WUT ANG Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.11.12 23:19:00 - [1] - Quote Does anyone else want to see a vehicle limit per team. Per squad 2 LAVS 1 TANK 1 DROP SHIP Thats 8 LAVS 4 TANKS 4 DROP SHIPS
DJINN Riot 63	Posted - 2012.11.12 23:21:00 - [2] - Quote WUT ANG wrote: Does anyone else want to see a vehicle limit per team. Per squad 2 LAVS 1 TANK 1 DROP SHIP Thats 8 LAVS 4 TANKS 4 DROP SHIPS There is a cap.
WUT ANG Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.11.12 23:52:00 - [3] - Quote that cap must be unlimited then cause 5 drop ships is too much
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.12 23:55:00 - [4] - Quote The cap is on the maximum number of vehicles a team can have on the field at once. And that limit is 5. Limiting beyond that is silly. ISK is the restriction beyond that point. If you're fighting a contract worth 5 million ISK, and you lose a 2 million ISK Sagaris, you're not going to call in another one, are you?
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.11.12 23:57:00 - [5] - Quote I think it should be based off a point system for example (just throwing around numbers): cap at 40pts LAVs are worth 4 Dropships worth 8 HAVs worth 10 you can't exceed the cap simple as that, like I said its just an idea and the numbers were decided off the top of my head.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.13 00:17:00 - [6] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: I think it should be based off a point system for example (just throwing around numbers): cap at 40pts LAVs are worth 4 Dropships worth 8 HAVs worth 10 you can't exceed the cap simple as that, like I said its just an idea and the numbers were decided off the top of my head. I think it works like that now to be honest. You can't call in 7 tanks, but I have been able to call in 7 lavs.
Overlord Zero Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.11.13 00:18:00 - [7] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: I think it should be based off a point system for example (just throwing around numbers): cap at 40pts LAVs are worth 4 Dropships worth 8 HAVs worth 10 you can't exceed the cap simple as that, like I said its just an idea and the numbers were decided off the top of my head. Even though you've killed me many times (I try to keep track of high profile sniper names who kill me, iirc you've killed me 14 times and I've only got you 4 times [Gem Cutter has you beat by 3]), I like a lot of your ideas, and this is definitely one of them. If they don't do something about the insane missile damage issue, then they will have to limit vehicle spamming in order to maintain balance. Another idea I've heard passed around is to make calling in vehicles require you to earn a certain number of points first, like precision strikes. For example: every say 150 WP your squad makes collectively, one LAV can be called in. For every 500 or so a tank. 700ish for a dropship.
WUT ANG Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.11.13 01:05:00 - [8] - Quote Now thats a good idea earn your deployment but those points should be higher. 150 points is only 3 kills
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 01:09:00 - [9] - Quote WUT ANG wrote: Now thats a good idea earn your deployment but those points should be higher. 150 points is only 3 kills 3 kills = 1 LAV I don't see the problem with that. Of course, I also don't think vehicle deployment should be restricted that way. It's too much of a "killstreak" system, imo.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.13 01:10:00 - [10] - Quote WUT ANG wrote: Now thats a good idea earn your deployment but those points should be higher. 150 points is only 3 kills Bull ****. Why should I have to engage proto infantry with militia gear before pulling out a tank? You would have to make them much sturdier to justify such a mechanic.

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 898	Posted - 2012.11.13 01:24:00 - [11] - Quote War points for vehicles is a terrible idea. Ends up being a game with COD kill streaks.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.11.13 01:30:00 - [12] - Quote I'm pretty tired of all this bull. Ya'll need to quit suggesting "WP for Vehicles" because it's unbalanced as ****. You want that system? Right, heres how we'll do it. When we start a game, you will only have access to a Militia Dropsuit (That means no BPOs you've got, no other suits, just Militia Assault) and a Militia Assault Rifle Then, when you get 200 WP you can get a new weapon to use, but only the first group of weapons, so a slightly better assault rifle, or a shotgun, you'll also be able to use your BPO weapons, but only once. Once you make that choice you can't do anything else til you get more WP. At 500 WP a player can call a vehicle in. YAY Doesn't seem so good when it applies to all assets, right? A Vehicle is an Asset the same as a Dropsuit or a Weapon, you start putting in bogus restrictions and you're going to effectively kill off a portion of the playerbase. Most Vehicle Pilots will put their SP into their vehicle skills, that means no SP for Infantry skills, which means a vehicle user will rarely get to use the vehicle he's specced up for.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.11.13 02:25:00 - [13] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: I'm pretty tired of all this bull. Ya'll need to quit suggesting "WP for Vehicles" because it's unbalanced as ****. You want that system? Right, heres how we'll do it. When we start a game, you will only have access to a Militia Dropsuit (That means no BPOs you've got, no other suits, just Militia Assault) and a Militia Assault Rifle Then, when you get 200 WP you can get a new weapon to use, but only the first group of weapons, so a slightly better assault rifle, or a shotgun, you'll also be able to use your BPO weapons, but only once. Once you make that choice you can't do anything else til you get more WP. At 500 WP a player can call a vehicle in. YAY Doesn't seem so good when it applies to all assets, right? A Vehicle is an Asset the same as a Dropsuit or a Weapon, you start putting in bogus restrictions and you're going to effectively kill off a portion of the playerbase. Most Vehicle Pilots will put their SP into their vehicle skills, that means no SP for Infantry skills, which means a vehicle user will rarely get to use the vehicle he's specced up for. Thats what I run most of the time for lols......starter and militia suits/mods/weapons. Oh look I can use a better and more expensive option. Why bother when with the militia stuff I do ok??
SuperMido Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 67	Posted - 2012.11.13 02:40:00 - [14] - Quote Maybe, and only maybe they can do that in the match-making style games. But when it comes to the real stuff and corporation vs. corporation battles, that would be BULL if they have ANY sort of a cap. Its survival of the fittest, sorry...
Overlord Zero Doomheim 75	Posted - 2012.11.13 02:48:00 - [15] - Quote It's hardly a killstreak system if it's based on your entire squads points and only allows your squad one vehicle per WP amount, not each individual a vehicle per WP amount. Also, you silly people keep forgetting there are WAY more ways to get points than just killing. Easily shows that you've never been a Logibro. This system would make squads work together to keep their vehicles alive and to not leave anyone behind since if they loose it they have to earn the points all over again. Also, those points were just for an example, I have no idea what they should be set at. As for your QQ about protosuits beating you up when gaining WP, HTFU and get some gun game Edit: Also, for the remark up there QQ about pilots not getting to use vehicles, they had to get that SP somehow to get the vehicles in the first place, they can get back to it. Their squad benifits from those high powered vehicles, so the squad can earn the WP needed for the pilot while the pilot backs them up and the pilot can take over from there with the squad backing him up as per usual.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.13 02:53:00 - [16] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: War points for vehicles is a terrible idea. Ends up being a game with COD kill streaks. It's something CCP talked about months ago. And you get WP for more than just kills. It also forces people to choose between which vehicle to call in, and also whether they want a vehicle or an orbital strike. Ideally they could throw in other support abilities tied to WP as well, stuff like calling down installations like turrets or supply depots, or having orbital scans or something. Anyway, it's the way they said they were going to go with it at one point. SuperMido wrote: Maybe, and only maybe they can do that in the match-making style games. But when it comes to the real stuff and corporation vs. corporation battles, that would be BULL if they have ANY sort of a cap. Its survival of the fittest, sorry... No need to apologize, because you're totally wrong. Unless you actually believe corp wars involving nothing but 16 tanks vs. 16 tanks sounds like fun to you, a cap will be necessary to keep the matches varied and interesting. Having a cap for vehicles, and especially if they require WP for vehicle call-ins, actually makes fights more strategic. Having to make tough decisions on what vehicles to call down will be something that makes matches more interesting and fun. Despite what you might think, having corp wars where every battle is the exact same thing as every other battle would get pretty old after a while.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.13 03:49:00 - [17] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Kain Spero wrote: War points for vehicles is a terrible idea. Ends up being a game with COD kill streaks. It's something CCP talked about months ago. And you get WP for more than just kills. It also forces people to choose between which vehicle to call in, and also whether they want a vehicle or an orbital strike. Ideally they could throw in other support abilities tied to WP as well, stuff like calling down installations like turrets or supply depots, or having orbital scans or something. Anyway, it's the way they said they were going to go with it at one point. I am willing to speculate, that at the time they were tossing around that idea, it was as an alternative to spending SP on them. Then they realized that would be stupid (dropships easier to use than assault suits what?) and now we have a system where people can play how they wish. Ask them to balance the game, not artificially cap things you think are overpowered.
Wako 75 SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 76	Posted - 2012.11.13 03:54:00 - [18] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: I think it should be based off a point system for example (just throwing around numbers): cap at 40pts LAVs are worth 4 Dropships worth 8 HAVs worth 10 you can't exceed the cap simple as that, like I said its just an idea and the numbers were decided off the top of my head. good idea maybe like high sec would be 30 low sec 40 and null 50. opefully we are going to get 32 vs 32 matches and it would just double
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.11.13 05:07:00 - [19] - Quote a per squad cap is not a bad idea just so youre squad is not screwed out of rolling a vehicle by a bunch of time wasting blue berries. but at the same time it also limits what youre squad can do meh i dunno. Id rather a dynamic cap that prevents spamining of vehicles. you know roll what you want but the more you lose the less you can call in at a time. or maybe its limited by the bolas's the more that get shot down the slower you can spawn em ohhh I like that one. you start out with a limited number of boli which dictates the frequency you can spawn vehicles in and the more destroyed the slower you can spawn vehicles. this also allows for a much more immersive game play as straight vehicle caps are counter intuitive. you dont pay for bolass so your employer will only pay for so many.
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 319	Posted - 2012.11.13 05:10:00 - [20] - Quote No, there shouldn't be a limit. WHY would any military force limit their vehicles. If your enemy deploys 16 tanks.. Deploy 16 Forge gunners or swarms.. Really, if a vehicle is give you a problem, you don't have enough AV on the field. ALSO non-AV people, back up your AV. Its pretty ******** that when I and a few others slip into a forge gun, we get gunned down by a single dude in a militia fit.

Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.11.13 11:05:00 - [21] - Quote Roflmao WTF Joke thread? why the f*** do we need points to call in vehicles?
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.11.13 11:10:00 - [22] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Roflmao WTF Joke thread? why the f*** do we need points to call in vehicles? Because "gungame" scrubs just QQ And to the guy who said get gungame? I've got pretty good gungame myself, for a constant vehicle user. Get AVgame, scrub,
angelarch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 93	Posted - 2012.11.13 11:27:00 - [23] - Quote I'd prefer NO limits, esp. for LAVS. Need more things to blow up. And as far as QQ about too many dropships, eventually we will have better weapon balance that can take them down more easily -- so in time that won't be a problem.
Minmatar Slave 74136 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2012.11.13 11:43:00 - [24] - Quote One idea is to limit the number of RDV available to deploy vehicles with. It kinda works like this. Lets say your team has, oh, a half-dozen or so RDVs to start with, just to throw out a random number for argument's sake - i'd make the number higher, myself. the enemy team's ace tanker delivers a railgun shot that blows one RDV out of the sky, now your team has five. Next, an RDV gets shot down by a group of swarm users, and now your team only has four left. As you lose RDVs you lose capacity to deploy multiple vehicles simultaneously on the battlefield, and if you lose them all then the vehicle faucet just dried up. its a rough idea, and not one i'd recommend for pubs since the randoms could just run your team out of RDVs really quickly, but on a corp or faction warfare match it would make the decision to deploy tanks, and where to deploy tanks, important since you do not want to lose too much of your RDV lift capability. Also, why not use an item that deploys a drop uplink beacon for larger vehicle wormholes, tie that to a black ops LAV or another vehicle like an LAV - creating a ground vehicle equivalent of an EVE ship that deploy a Cynosural Field (Cyno Fields can allow whole fleets to jump into a system in EVE at the places where it is deployed.) Just random thoughts. it's late and i've been at work all night.
Pranekt Tyrvoth Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 177	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:13:00 - [25] - Quote This is not Call of Duty with killstreaks. Please stop trying to turn this game with potential into call of duty. I will call in as many LAVs, dropships, HAVs, and large feline creatures as I want. Deal with it.
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 192	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:14:00 - [26] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: I think it should be based off a point system for example (just throwing around numbers): cap at 40pts LAVs are worth 4 Dropships worth 8 HAVs worth 10 you can't exceed the cap simple as that, like I said its just an idea and the numbers were decided off the top of my head. I think it works like that now to be honest. You can't call in 7 tanks, but I have been able to call in 7 lavs. Unless something has changed, we had 8 tanks in one map just before wipe last build. Was one of the funniest matches I've ever had. As for Sleepy's suggestion, I've been trying to get the devs to listen to that for builds now. It would've completely solved the issue with tank spam and cries of "OP" last build. The only issue is it denies people calling in things they've specifically specced into, so it does have it's flaws.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:19:00 - [27] - Quote Only cap i can think of is having it for high sec so noobs dont get wtf pwned Low and null no vehicle caps and if you think ther should be you can **** off back to high sec tbh
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.11.14 02:54:00 - [28] - Quote Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg wrote: As for Sleepy's suggestion, I've been trying to get the devs to listen to that for builds now. It would've completely solved the issue with tank spam and cries of "OP" last build. The only issue is it denies people calling in things they've specifically specced into, so it does have it's flaws. Yes it does, but I would prefer to have that flaw instead of the ability to freely spam vehicles. EnglishSnake wrote: Only cap i can think of is having it for high sec so noobs dont get wtf pwned Low and null no vehicle caps and if you think ther should be you can **** off back to high sec tbh This is also what I have envisioned.
Boss Dirge Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2012.11.14 02:57:00 - [29] - Quote I pay for my vehicles and I will use them as I see fit. Anything else is........ COMMUNISM!!
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.14 03:11:00 - [30] - Quote Last time I checked, currently each opposing team can call in only five vehicles in total. Therefore, the original poster's point is moot when said restriction is already in place.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.14 03:14:00 - [31] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Last time I checked, currently each opposing team can call in only five vehicles in total. Therefore, the original poster's point is moot when said restriction is already in place. That's not entirely accurate. They can have only 5 vehicles on the field SIMULTANEOUSLY. OP wants them to ALSO have a maximum total number of callouts. The cap on currently-active vehicles should be enough, imo.
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 323	Posted - 2012.11.14 03:58:00 - [32] - Quote I started the WP for vehicle deployment already in this thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=43082 and most QQ'ed about it. I will say that I'll concede on this point,but the one thing I WILL NOT concede to is the idea that the system is a killstreak bonus system,ala COD.That's just totally ignorant and/or people just don't fully understand the concept. Anyway,a better idea was given,and that would be to limit ammo in vehicles.If they have unlimited ammo,how come I don't as an assault infantry soldier? There's some serious cognitive dissonance going on with a lot of people that just needs to stop.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.11.14 05:17:00 - [33] - Quote WUT ANG wrote: Does anyone else want to see a vehicle limit per team. Per squad 2 LAVS 1 TANK 1 DROP SHIP Thats 8 LAVS 4 TANKS 4 DROP SHIPS No.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.11.14 05:48:00 - [34] - Quote ISK isn't unlimited, current market prices are NPC based (in other words don't expect them to stay this cheap) and we still don't have Orbitals in game (PS yes, OB no). There are already caps present in the intended function of the game, it's just that we're not seeing their effects because they're mostly not enabled currently. Just wait, when kill mails are enabled in EVE for ground side targets watch the skies burn. There will be orbitals dropped into districts from EVE players who aren't on either side of the FW battle going on. There are even some EVE pilots who might considering firing on their own side if there are enough Proto vehicles on the field. What's that you say? Maybe there will be limits on shooting from the sky, perhaps something like needing a man on the ground? Well, that wouldn't be remotely the biggest betrayal of the history of New Eden (and that's not even considering the ability to make alts). Even leaving all the above aside, CCP has stated they're aiming for it to take 2-3 weeks to get proto in a given area. So lets say 6 weeks to get proto Forge & Swarms. Lets say that for some reason no one goes AV at launch, so add another 3 weeks. Ok so that's 9 weeks after launch before vehicles are one supply depot or spawn away from facing a team full of proto AV. Seems alright, especially when you consider that it'll take that first three weeks for them to properly skill up anyway. Note I say all of this as someone who does not pilot a ship, tank or lav (aside from the freebie) and who does not possess an AV fit in this build. I personally have no answer right now for a hostile vehicle on the field but I still do alright for myself (I hit the SP cap even tho I have kids and commitments and I make enough ISK to donate millions to my corp. And all that's playing as a Logi, and having gun skills with 8 years of rust on them. I'm an ok player but I'm no Zitro or Zan and I'm doing more than alright for myself, so it seems to me that the situation can't really be all that bad. Just my 0.02 ISK Cross
ContraBanJoe Doomheim 48	Posted - 2012.11.14 06:07:00 - [35] - Quote WUT ANG wrote: Does anyone else want to see a vehicle limit per team. Per squad 2 LAVS 1 TANK 1 DROP SHIP Thats 8 LAVS 4 TANKS 4 DROP SHIPS NO. Maybe some caps in low sec, but in Null I want to call in 300 tanks a game.
ReGnUm UNSTOPPABLE DEI Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2012.11.14 06:17:00 - [36] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Bhor Derri wrote: Roflmao WTF Joke thread? why the f*** do we need points to call in vehicles? Because "gungame" scrubs just QQ And to the guy who said get gungame? I've got pretty good gungame myself, for a constant vehicle user. Get AVgame, scrub, Correction your Gun Game is not even close to good Just sayin tho
Ima Leet Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2012.11.14 06:51:00 - [37] - Quote tl;dr whatever the vehicle cap is now per ambush needs to be lowered.
Drommy Hood Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2012.11.14 09:03:00 - [38] - Quote I'm pretty sure I read there's no limit, but the server knows when your trying to spam a load of vehicles (lavs I assume)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.14 12:36:00 - [39] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: ISK isn't unlimited, current market prices are NPC based (in other words don't expect them to stay this cheap) and we still don't have Orbitals in game (PS yes, OB no). There are already caps present in the intended function of the game, it's just that we're not seeing their effects because they're mostly not enabled currently. Just wait, when kill mails are enabled in EVE for ground side targets watch the skies burn. There will be orbitals dropped into districts from EVE players who aren't on either side of the FW battle going on. There are even some EVE pilots who might considering firing on their own side if there are enough Proto vehicles on the field. What's that you say? Maybe there will be limits on shooting from the sky, perhaps something like needing a man on the ground? Well, that wouldn't be remotely the biggest betrayal of the history of New Eden (and that's not even considering the ability to make alts). Even leaving all the above aside, CCP has stated they're aiming for it to take 2-3 weeks to get proto in a given area. So lets say 6 weeks to get proto Forge & Swarms. Lets say that for some reason no one goes AV at launch, so add another 3 weeks. Ok so that's 9 weeks after launch before vehicles are one supply depot or spawn away from facing a team full of proto AV. Seems alright, especially when you consider that it'll take that first three weeks for them to properly skill up anyway. Note I say all of this as someone who does not pilot a ship, tank or lav (aside from the freebie) and who does not possess an AV fit in this build. I personally have no answer right now for a hostile vehicle on the field but I still do alright for myself (I hit the SP cap even tho I have kids and commitments and I make enough ISK to donate millions to my corp. And all that's playing as a Logi, and having gun skills with 8 years of rust on them. I'm an ok player but I'm no Zitro or Zan and I'm doing more than alright for myself, so it seems to me that the situation can't really be all that bad. Just my 0.02 ISK Cross Given the fact that one of my friends is only interested in DUST because of the possibility of ruining someone's day in EVE, I'm pretty sure there are EVE pilots looking forward to doing the same thing to players on the ground. So that will be fun.
BASSMEANT ZionTCD Legacy Rising 109	Posted - 2012.11.14 14:13:00 - [40] - Quote get your own vehicles and call em in!!! quit asking the devs to protect you from your own incompetence. you have access to the same gear as everyone else. what's the problem? oh johnny solo casual just realized he isn't making the headway he is accustomed to in other games? why? cuz he is a solo player going up against teams. so join a team or **** off but quit asking for these sissy mode changes. every other game already has those changes in place so you can go feel good about yourself elsewhere. Peace B



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