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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.11.10 00:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Something about the gameplay doesn't feel quite right with me, and many people are always mentioning how bad the gameplay is on Dust; not just on here, but on various sites, and youtube comments, etc. I didn't know exactly what was wrong with it, so I made this thread to gather the opinions of others about what gameplay should be like. These are the best responses I received in terms of content and detail. I think CCP should take a look at these.
Th3rdSun wrote:Personally for me,the gunplay needs to be tightened up.For instance,there seems to be deadspots int he control while aiming making aiming less precise as almost every other shooter. When I try to move the reticle just slightly or slowly,it's slower than any other game that I've ever played.
Like others have said before,ADS is pretty bad right now and really needs to be tightened up too.I really need something more than just a full screen crosshair while aiming down sight.
Hip firing seems pretty loose too.Idk,but there are too many times when I just don't get the feeling that I'm actually hitting anything that I'm aiming at.
So in all,the gunplay needs a major reworking,as far as I'm concerned.
Grenade mechanics and physics need to be tweaked.
X axis speed really needs to be raised to.With the assault suit,turning 180 degrees takes waaaaay to long to do.
JaZZa01 wrote: Strafe speed too slow. ADS speed should be slower than hip fire strafe, but definitely still have some pace. Hip fire needs to be tight and useful in close range, obviously not long range though. Hip fire however should not dominate in close range. ADS should still be viable, hence the suggested ^ speed of ADS
Aiming is terrible. Play any other shooter, then play DUST, then proceed to laugh at DUST. The deadzone is huge. Fluidity is key. The sensitivity also needs increased speed for such players who desire it.
Eternal Technique wrote:For me it all comes down to gunplay mechanics. Here are a few suggestions.
Movement and controls feel way too stiff. Maximum sensitivity needs to be increased. I get that limited sensitivity helps balance vs mouse and keyboard, but its way too low. Assault and scout suits need to be able to turn around MUCH faster. Movement and strafing speed needs to be increased back to where it was a couple builds ago. I would also like to see an increase in stamina.
Parts of these quotes have been omitted by me for the sake of relavence. To see the full comments, and other comments, check here. |
JaZZa01
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
81
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Posted - 2012.11.10 01:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
I support this/these post/posts. |
The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.11.10 01:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think a question that I haven't seen raised just yet is: What are all of these gamplay mechanic changes in reference to? Just throwing out general tweaks because you play solely as assault is nice and all for the assault suits, but what about Logi/Scout/Heavies?
Since movement speeds and whatnot differ from suit to suit, should we be talking in regard to tweaks to a particular suit? |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
197
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Posted - 2012.11.10 05:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
my issue isnt with the suits but how well i can control the gun i endlessly tweak the sensitivity controls and other stuff but i still cant use the guns right for some reason i cant ever line up a shot on dust but on any other game im completely beast at it. perhaps the biggest issue is when i let go of the analog or snap it back into position the gun travels a bit and doesnGÇÖt stop where i intend it to after that the deadzone and disparity between how far you move the stick to the amount of movement compounds the issue of aiming alot of times i find myself aiming with my character rather than with my gun which is stupid.
more finite controls is all i really need, speed can be tweaked all you want if i cant get this to work for me i will get tired of it and other gamers probably will to the controls over the gun needs some work until it feels comfortable enough to use efficiently |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 22:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Polish Hammer wrote:I think a question that I haven't seen raised just yet is: What are all of these gamplay mechanic changes in reference to? Just throwing out general tweaks because you play solely as assault is nice and all for the assault suits, but what about Logi/Scout/Heavies?
Since movement speeds and whatnot differ from suit to suit, should we be talking in regard to tweaks to a particular suit?
I personally would like a tweak in movement speed for all suits, something like a 10% increase for all. I think Eternal Technique meant just strafe speed for assault, scout, and logi, since I think they were the only ones effected by the decrease in strafe speed, though I could be wrong. |
Velvet Overkill
Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS.
104
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Posted - 2012.11.13 04:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
ADS feels unsatisfactory. There needs to be some sort of acceleration when turning with ADS. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 12:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Velvet Overkill wrote:ADS feels unsatisfactory. There needs to be some sort of acceleration when turning with ADS. We need the ability to set sensitivity (and actually have the settings WORK, unlike the current state), and we need separate "hip-fire" and "ADS" sensitivity. Let us adjust BOTH independently of one another. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.11.13 18:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Velvet Overkill wrote:ADS feels unsatisfactory. There needs to be some sort of acceleration when turning with ADS. We need the ability to set sensitivity (and actually have the settings WORK, unlike the current state), and we need separate "hip-fire" and "ADS" sensitivity. Let us adjust BOTH independently of one another.
I agree with this. |
R'ahz Lupo
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2012.11.13 19:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 +1 +1 +1 Dual sensitivity is the best! I hate how the sensitivity is the same for this game. I find the hip sensitivity ungodly slow and the ADS too fast and jerky sensitive. I would tweak it to be the exact opposite, personally : P |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.13 19:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
R'ahz Lupo wrote:+1 +1 +1 +1 Dual sensitivity is the best! I hate how the sensitivity is the same for this game. I find the hip sensitivity ungodly slow and the ADS too fast and jerky sensitive. I would tweak it to be the exact opposite, personally : P Had fun running into you earlier... Did you like my Shotgun? (and yes, your AR was nasty too) |
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R'ahz Lupo
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2012.11.13 19:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
I didn't even see you Haha! Guess I'm going to have to watch for names now... ;) |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 19:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
R'ahz Lupo wrote:I didn't even see you Haha! Guess I'm going to have to watch for names now... ;) I don't always watch for names, but when I do, I usually know some of them from the forums. |
R'ahz Lupo
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2012.11.13 19:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Unrelated question... Do you any issues with the servers at any points in the day? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 20:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nothing consistent. It's not a specific time that's better or worse for me. But randomly sometimes I have relatively smooth gameplay, and other times it's smooth and easy to do well. Sometimes it fluctuates even during the course of a single battle.
I blame the fact that I live in the middle of nowhere (NZ). |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 03:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Does anyone know if the new build will have any changes relating to these issues? |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 03:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
weapon quick swappin needs a big fix as well **** is insanely slow and half the time unresponsive |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 22:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
turning while aiming down sights should be slower than just turning without aiming down sights, and additionally there should be an acceleration when turning instead of just 1 constant speed. |
Tyrus 4
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
83
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Posted - 2012.11.17 22:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Does anyone know if the new build will have any changes relating to these issues?
supposedly the next build will be mostly performance and gameplay improvements and less new content. |
Mace flagrantfool
6
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Posted - 2012.11.18 03:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ok, as far as dropsuit turn speed, in my opinion, this is how things should go:
The scout suit should represent the fastest turn speed available. Some how (and don't ask me how) play testers should be poled and the desired "fastest requested turn speed" (within reason of course) should be found - or a much simpler solution: since everyone seems to be satisfied with CoD's turn system we just rip their turn speed off.
Once the "'fastest requested turn speed' (within reason of course)" is found, it is aplyed to the scout suit (the ability to manually adjust turn sensitivity is retained however). With the next tier of dropsuit (assault class) the highest level turn speed is markedly decreased. Logistics is then decreased further, and heavy the furthest.
As far as ADS goes I would like to see the zoomed in gunless full screen cross hair go bye bye, and be replaced with (standard) iron sights, and various (modable) scopes, red dot sights, what-have-you along with the appropriate "skill-to-use" and market Purchasable gun modules and "gun fittings" system. As to not be a direct rip from CoD, I think that some futuristic type of gun mods could be thought up (but this gun moding should really not be thought of as a ripoff at all, it is a fact of reality, guns are, more often than not, moded in real life - you should see my "real life" carbon fiber, tactical Ak-47, that gun is effen awesum - CoD just exploited the real life aspects of this first, that is all and nothing more). Also would like to see grips and stalk mods as well, and this stuff sould be applicable to all weapons.
Hip fire need to have a better feel to it, perhaps enemy character "body flenching" when hit would help with this. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 04:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mace flagrantfool wrote:Ok, as far as dropsuit turn speed, in my opinion, this is how things should go:
The scout suit should represent the fastest turn speed available. Some how (and don't ask me how) play testers should be poled and the desired "fastest requested turn speed" (within reason of course) should be found - or a much simpler solution: since everyone seems to be satisfied with CoD's turn system we just rip their turn speed off.
Once the "'fastest requested turn speed' (within reason of course)" is found, it is aplyed to the scout suit (the ability to manually adjust turn sensitivity is retained however). With the next tier of dropsuit (assault class) the highest level turn speed is markedly decreased. Logistics is then decreased further, and heavy the furthest.
As far as ADS goes I would like to see the zoomed in gunless full screen cross hair go bye bye, and be replaced with (standard) iron sights, and various (modable) scopes, red dot sights, what-have-you along with the appropriate "skill-to-use" and market Purchasable gun modules and "gun fittings" system. As to not be a direct rip from CoD, I think that some futuristic type of gun mods could be thought up (but this gun moding should really not be thought of as a ripoff at all, it is a fact of reality, guns are, more often than not, moded in real life - you should see my "real life" carbon fiber, tactical Ak-47, that gun is effen awesum - CoD just exploited the real life aspects of this first, that is all and nothing more). Also would like to see grips and stalk mods as well, and this stuff sould be applicable to all weapons.
Hip fire need to have a better feel to it, perhaps enemy character "body flenching" when hit would help with this.
You might be interested to know that gun customization is coming. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=315202#post315202 "[REQUEST] Weapon customization: Subsystem, Rigging, Slots, or Add-ons - The design for this is ready, but it is a very large task to implement it in-game. Expect this at a later date." |
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Higgs flagrantfool
3dge of D4rkness Industrials
27
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Posted - 2012.11.19 00:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Can't find this thread. I went back 31 pages looking for it then finally got board, and said screw it. Can any one link this thread if they know where it's at? Please. Thank you. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 02:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Higgs flagrantfool wrote:Can't find this thread. I went back 31 pages looking for it then finally got board, and said screw it. Can any one link this thread if they know where it's at? Please. Thank you.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29160&find=unread Found it, good thing I added it to favorites. |
Eternal Technique
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
281
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Posted - 2012.11.19 05:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Me and some others just realized this the other day, but turning your sensitivity to 0% actually increases it. I was playing on what I thought was max sensitivity at 100% this whole time.......
Even with that sensitivity still felt too low at 0%. Totally agree with being able to tweak ads and hipfire sensitivity. ADS feels jumpy to me atm. |
SWAGIZM
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.11.19 05:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
I actually think the movement is quite good. It's the netcode, hit detection, and mouse sensitivity that needs improving.
Now I think, jumping does feel a little ******** when on terrain with a gradual incline. I seem to get stuck on the ground because it's not flat from time to time. That said, I was trying to bunny hop... |
THCFORME
Air Raiders
32
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Posted - 2012.11.19 16:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Many of us said this when dust first came out and got nothing but flamed by fanboys. Best of luck getting it through the thick skulls here, we definitely had no luck. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.11.23 21:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hopefully next build will improve these things. |
SGT Garrisson
On The Brink
60
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Posted - 2012.11.25 14:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
bump
this really really needs looking at to me it feels like its gotten worse lately
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 09:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=410313#post410313
[FEEDBACK] Gameplay: gunplay, movement, and ADS Update: In our next update there are a number of improvements to the controls in and out of ADS including new sensitivity tuning options. We will be doing more work on this and making improvements to the aim assist system in future updates. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 10:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Also a very good thing ! All we need now......is the damn update itself.... and those new maps |
Firestorm Zulu
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 12:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
THCFORME wrote:Many of us said this when dust first came out and got nothing but flamed by fanboys. Best of luck getting it through the thick skulls here, we definitely had no luck.
QFT |
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Sparadok
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
9
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Posted - 2012.11.27 16:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
I doubt we will ever get this sorted as the more customizable the controls become, the bigger the gap will be between the classes ( by classes I mean kbm players and joypad players)
kbm will always have an advantage, so if CCP try to make it nice and neat for the kbm players, those using a joypad will be up in arms saying that the balance isn't right cos they will be being owned by kbm players .Tweak it so joypad isn't handicapped and you get where I'm going.
I'm a console gamer but also game on the pc and as such I've always known kbm was far quicker and more accurate.
I don't see how you could balance the 2 without nerfing the kbm.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 17:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sparadok wrote:I doubt we will ever get this sorted as the more customizable the controls become, the bigger the gap will be between the classes ( by classes I mean kbm players and joypad players)
kbm will always have an advantage, so if CCP try to make it nice and neat for the kbm players, those using a joypad will be up in arms saying that the balance isn't right cos they will be being owned by kbm players .Tweak it so joypad isn't handicapped and you get where I'm going.
I'm a console gamer but also game on the pc and as such I've always known kbm was far quicker and more accurate.
I don't see how you could balance the 2 without nerfing the kbm. Keyboard movement is restrictive in terms of range of motion and speed control. Gamepad has the advantage with the analog stick for movement control.
Gamepad aiming has to balance speed and precision - you can't have both. Mouse aim has the advantage because you can more easily transition from small precise movements to fast turning.
When the game has a hard cap on turning speed, that pretty much automatically resolves the core problematic element in balancing the two control schemes. Sixaxis players will EITHER have lowered sensitivity for sniping, OR higher sensitivity, but with a tougher job of precise aim. KB+M players will have the advantage in aiming control, but they WON'T have the instant-180 ability they have in some PC-exclusive FPS games (or the 2 games with shooter elements and proper cross-platform play that highlighted the problem), and they won't have the ability to control movement as precisely as someone using a gamepad can.
BOTH schemes are well-balanced, with advantages and disadvantages to how they operate. |
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