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Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:05:00 - [1] - Quote Type 2 heavy suit = 13000 ISK MH2 Heavy Machine Gun = 32000 ISK Aur Damage Mods = 60 AUR Aur Repair Mod = 30 AUR Total payout after the game = 200K ISK Total kills in the game = 29 Total deaths in the game = 8 Total ISK loss due to deaths = 400K ISK Total ISK loss after game = 200K ISK Is it just me or is this absolute BS? And we are talking about just level 2 dropsuits out here. I think ISK payments should be made based on the role played by you in a game. These are the following areas where I feel ISK should be rewarded;- 1. ISK reward per kill depending on the kind of match Melee Kills - get the highest ISK Weapon kills - get the next higher ISK Grenade Kills - get lower than Weapon kills Vehicle kills - get the least ISK 2. Hacking and counter hacking objectives 3. Revieving teammates 4. Teams using spawn points 5. Having a KD less than 0.5 in a single game I see a lot of noobs going 0-18 and 1-12 etc etc etc. If anyone needs ISK it is these clowns. Done ranting!
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:25:00 - [2] - Quote Isn't that a simple case of living beyond your means? Every player needs to find a point at which their losses are covered by their income.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:32:00 - [3] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Isn't that a simple case of living beyond your means? Every player needs to find a point at which their losses are covered by their income. I was wondering when "Living beyond your means" trolls would start trolling my post and lo-behold, the very first post on my thread is one of those. You probably havent been in one of those games with me or other people when they have gone 20+ - 0. I am speaking for the little ones out here that have been destroyed out here by the pros. Trying to make a point son. If ya dont get it, ask! If the players are to put up a decent fight against a good tanker or dropship they need better gear. Militia gear tickles yo!
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:35:00 - [4] - Quote You have to keep in mind that ISK payouts will probably be levelled for high-sec contracts. A good way to split players by level, and to have different ISK payouts based on experience in high-sec contracts would have been some sort of "merc reputation", wich would work a bit like standings in EVE. Except, merc reputation would evolve based only on number of contracts played, victory, losses etc... A higher merc reputation would send you in higher bounty contracts. Would avoid : 1) Mixing different level of players 2) Having to find the perfect balance in ISK payouts as more advanced gear players, with more SP, and more battles played would play for higher bounty. Etc.
Unit-775 Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:41:00 - [5] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Isn't that a simple case of living beyond your means? Every player needs to find a point at which their losses are covered by their income. I was wondering when "Living beyond your means" trolls would start trolling my post and lo-behold, the very first post on my thread is one of those. You probably havent been in one of those games with me or other people when they have gone 20+ - 0. I am speaking for the little ones out here that have been destroyed out here by the pros. Trying to make a point son. If ya dont get it, ask! If the players are to put up a decent fight against a good tanker or dropship they need better gear. Militia gear tickles yo! so this is trolling ? easy to put a different opinion as trolling isn't it ?
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:41:00 - [6] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: You have to keep in mind that ISK payouts will probably be levelled for high-sec contracts. A good way to split players by level, and to have different ISK payouts based on experience in high-sec contracts would have been some sort of "merc reputation", wich would work a bit like standings in EVE. Except, merc reputation would evolve based only on number of contracts played, victory, losses etc... A higher merc reputation would send you in higher bounty contracts. Would avoid : 1) Mixing different level of players 2) Having to find the perfect balance in ISK payouts as more advanced gear players, with more SP, and more battles played would play for higher bounty. Etc. +1. Thanks for a sensible reply.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:44:00 - [7] - Quote Truthfully, i agree w/ the second poster, you are living beyond your means. now I'm not a great gun, but if i take my type 2 suit, i know if i die 2-3 times, i need to change my suit b/c i can take a guess that ill be going negative. This IS an aspect ccp has spoken about, that u need to weight what you are doing. Plus if u lose that much in one game, maybe use something less costly] the next game, or make better ingame decisions
Fargen Icehole SyNergy Gaming 67	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:51:00 - [8] - Quote Agree with "living beyond your means" post. If you can't afford it, don't use it. Think of it as a built in mechanism for balancing. It help reduce the number of ppl using high-end gear ALL the time. Forces ppl to use low-end or militia gear sometimes.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:57:00 - [9] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Truthfully, i agree w/ the second poster, you are living beyond your means. now I'm not a great gun, but if i take my type 2 suit, i know if i die 2-3 times, i need to change my suit b/c i can take a guess that ill be going negative. This IS an aspect ccp has spoken about, that u need to weight what you are doing. Plus if u lose that much in one game, maybe use something less costly] the next game, or make better ingame decisions There are actions and then there are consequences. What you and the second poster dont get is that if someone dies so much in a game and is not able to put up a good fight in a game, they get frustrated and thats where the "nerf this" and "nerf that" option comes in. Just to give you an example, I went about 10 games last night without dying even once. I made over 2 million ISK in those matches. In these matches I saw people going 0-18 and 1-12. I am pretty sure their ISk payouts for loosing those games are gonna be poor. Now if they got taken out that badly and they dont have any ISK, how are they going to buy new stuff and improve their game? So what do you think they are going to do? They are pretty much going to ask for nerfs. Thats all they can do! They have no isk to upgrade their skills and no money to buy new/better stuff. How can one improve their game then? And thats what Laurent has addressed. Noobs need a different area. Besides that last night I destroyed 2 Gunlogis, a dropship and helped take out a Sigaris. All my payouts were between 150K - 300K. If I am doing that much damage my payouts should be higher. Similarly, if someone is doing that bad they need some sort of generosity to try out different things. Simple no?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:57:00 - [10] - Quote From what I've seen, ISK payout increase when you're using low-tier gear and taking out valuable enemy stuff. You get more credit for killing someone with a Militia Sniper Rifle than for the same kill with an Ishukone or something.

Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:02:00 - [11] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: From what I've seen, ISK payout increase when you're using low-tier gear and taking out valuable enemy stuff. You get more credit for killing someone with a Militia Sniper Rifle than for the same kill with an Ishukone or something. Hmmmm. I didnt see that dude. I was rolling in my SVER BPO with militia mods for ***** and giggles. Went 10-2. Got quite a few hacks. The payout was measely 73K for 1350 WP.
Fargen Icehole SyNergy Gaming 67	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:03:00 - [12] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Berserker007 wrote: Truthfully, i agree w/ the second poster, you are living beyond your means. now I'm not a great gun, but if i take my type 2 suit, i know if i die 2-3 times, i need to change my suit b/c i can take a guess that ill be going negative. This IS an aspect ccp has spoken about, that u need to weight what you are doing. Plus if u lose that much in one game, maybe use something less costly] the next game, or make better ingame decisions There are actions and then there are consequences. What you and the second poster dont get is that if someone dies so much in a game and is not able to put up a good fight in a game, they get frustrated and thats where the "nerf this" and "nerf that" option comes in. Just to give you an example, I went about 10 games last night without dying even once. I made over 2 million ISK in those matches. In these matches I saw people going 0-18 and 1-12. I am pretty sure their ISk payouts for loosing those games are gonna be poor. Now if they got taken out that badly and they dont have any ISK, how are they going to buy new stuff and improve their game? So what do you think they are going to do? They are pretty much going to ask for nerfs. Thats all they can do! They have no isk to upgrade their skills and no money to buy new/better stuff. How can one improve their game then? And thats what Laurent has addressed. Noobs need a different area. Besides that last night I destroyed 2 Gunlogis, a dropship and helped take out a Sigaris. All my payouts were between 150K - 300K. If I am doing that much damage my payouts should be higher. Similarly, if someone is doing that bad they need some sort of generosity to try out different things. Simple no? It's likely to work itself out with high/low/null sec, as they will have different payouts and highsec in particular is likely to be more of a "level" playing field for ppl with lower end gear.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:07:00 - [13] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Berserker007 wrote: Truthfully, i agree w/ the second poster, you are living beyond your means. now I'm not a great gun, but if i take my type 2 suit, i know if i die 2-3 times, i need to change my suit b/c i can take a guess that ill be going negative. This IS an aspect ccp has spoken about, that u need to weight what you are doing. Plus if u lose that much in one game, maybe use something less costly] the next game, or make better ingame decisions There are actions and then there are consequences. What you and the second poster dont get is that if someone dies so much in a game and is not able to put up a good fight in a game, they get frustrated and thats where the "nerf this" and "nerf that" option comes in. Just to give you an example, I went about 10 games last night without dying even once. I made over 2 million ISK in those matches. In these matches I saw people going 0-18 and 1-12. I am pretty sure their ISk payouts for loosing those games are gonna be poor. Now if they got taken out that badly and they dont have any ISK, how are they going to buy new stuff and improve their game? So what do you think they are going to do? They are pretty much going to ask for nerfs. Thats all they can do! They have no isk to upgrade their skills and no money to buy new/better stuff. How can one improve their game then? And thats what Laurent has addressed. Noobs need a different area. Besides that last night I destroyed 2 Gunlogis, a dropship and helped take out a Sigaris. All my payouts were between 150K - 300K. If I am doing that much damage my payouts should be higher. Similarly, if someone is doing that bad they need some sort of generosity to try out different things. Simple no? Id have to disagree. If you are dying THAT much, you shouldnt be using an expensive suit like that then. Ccp said, they have it set so people who run proto gear dont use it 24/7 like we have in last few builds. Its one of those games or sunday best type of stuff. Also, i run basic 90% of the time, and keep up fine w/ others. I may lose to people using adv/proto gear, but i take out enough of their HP to know id of won otherwise and let my mate get the easy kill. I dont want people running adv/proto suits 24/7 like it was b/c of the payouts. Now you need the think about when u take out a suit if its worth it. Besides you are only looking at suits; this also applies to tanks too. Howd u like it if someone rollled a tank every other game or so w/ one being destroyed before it. Say it cost about 1mil isk. With what u are a saying, ud want rewards to cover your losses b/c u died, so lose a 1mil tank, but get 500k reward. Thusly play 1 more game, and u can restock your tank. It shouldnt be that easy. The point of restocking items and worrying about inventory is that u CAN lose money so u cant always restock the amount u lost quickly.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:26:00 - [14] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Id have to disagree. If you are dying THAT much, you shouldnt be using an expensive suit like that then. Dude now you are just talking for the heck of if. You mean to tell me a Type 2 dropsuit which costs 13000 ISK is an expensive dropsuit? Berserker007 wrote: Ccp said, they have it set so people who run proto gear dont use it 24/7 like we have in last few builds. I am not even talking about advanced/proto suits? Where did you get that from? I am talking about a simple Type 2 Suit Berserker007 wrote: i take out enough of their HP to know id of won otherwise and let my mate get the easy kill. Quite honestly I wouldnt put up a note like this. Some of your corp mates do have good gun games and saying that your mates piggy back of your kills is not cool. Berserker007 wrote: With what u are a saying, ud want rewards to cover your losses b/c u died, so lose a 1mil tank, but get 500k reward. Thusly play 1 more game, and u can restock your tank. It shouldnt be that easy. The point of restocking items and worrying about inventory is that u CAN lose money so u cant always restock the amount u lost quickly. If someone has a KD of 0.5 I say they need a lot of help. And yes if someone does loose a 1 million tank in a game and then goes negative in the same game, I feel that they should get enough ISK to get it back. Hey if he lost his tank and goes negative he pretty much sucks
843 pano 843 Boot Camp 200	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:35:00 - [15] - Quote @Sentient Archon, If you look at the amortization of your payout over the games you played, you will see that you are well paid for your services. Seeing that you played 11 games and you made over 2 million isk, minus the 200K isk lost in the "bad" game you have a net of 1.8 million isk for your game play. Seems to be working correctly to me.
10011101 Red Star. 3	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:36:00 - [16] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Sentient Archon wrote: Berserker007 wrote: Truthfully, i agree w/ the second poster, you are living beyond your means. now I'm not a great gun, but if i take my type 2 suit, i know if i die 2-3 times, i need to change my suit b/c i can take a guess that ill be going negative. This IS an aspect ccp has spoken about, that u need to weight what you are doing. Plus if u lose that much in one game, maybe use something less costly] the next game, or make better ingame decisions There are actions and then there are consequences. What you and the second poster dont get is that if someone dies so much in a game and is not able to put up a good fight in a game, they get frustrated and thats where the "nerf this" and "nerf that" option comes in. Just to give you an example, I went about 10 games last night without dying even once. I made over 2 million ISK in those matches. In these matches I saw people going 0-18 and 1-12. I am pretty sure their ISk payouts for loosing those games are gonna be poor. Now if they got taken out that badly and they dont have any ISK, how are they going to buy new stuff and improve their game? So what do you think they are going to do? They are pretty much going to ask for nerfs. Thats all they can do! They have no isk to upgrade their skills and no money to buy new/better stuff. How can one improve their game then? And thats what Laurent has addressed. Noobs need a different area. Besides that last night I destroyed 2 Gunlogis, a dropship and helped take out a Sigaris. All my payouts were between 150K - 300K. If I am doing that much damage my payouts should be higher. Similarly, if someone is doing that bad they need some sort of generosity to try out different things. Simple no? Id have to disagree. If you are dying THAT much, you shouldnt be using an expensive suit like that then. Ccp said, they have it set so people who run proto gear dont use it 24/7 like we have in last few builds. Its one of those games or sunday best type of stuff. Also, i run basic 90% of the time, and keep up fine w/ others. I may lose to people using adv/proto gear, but i take out enough of their HP to know id of won otherwise and let my mate get the easy kill. I dont want people running adv/proto suits 24/7 like it was b/c of the payouts. Now you need the think about when u take out a suit if its worth it. Besides you are only looking at suits; this also applies to tanks too. Howd u like it if someone rollled a tank every other game or so w/ one being destroyed before it. Say it cost about 1mil isk. With what u are a saying, ud want rewards to cover your losses b/c u died, so lose a 1mil tank, but get 500k reward. Thusly play 1 more game, and u can restock your tank. It shouldnt be that easy. The point of restocking items and worrying about inventory is that u CAN lose money so u cant always restock the amount u lost quickly. I find that hilarious an imperfect saying that you don't see people bring out loads of tanks or use strictly proto suits when I just saw one of his guys pull out 2 sagaris tanks, that is completely unfair to anyone who can't afford good AV, yet that guy pulls 2 million isk tanks
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:44:00 - [17] - Quote Working as Intended High Sec fights will give you small ISK, low sec and then Null sec fights will give more contract money. Also take salvage prices into account, whilst you can't sell it (yet), I begin to notice that every 10 games or so, I'll earn 2mil in ISK and then 10mil (minimum) worth of salvage. So really, it's working out fine, just wait til we can sell salvage.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:48:00 - [18] - Quote First, idk what people are using in corp now, as i have been w/o power for over a week and havent played, so not sure what they unlocke. In regards to someone pulling a sagaris, i bet if he lost one, it will take quite a bit 2 restock, say what 5-10 games....the op is saying allow u to restock in the game it was destroyed in so long as u go positive Even if u didnt mention adv/proto gear,it goes along all the same, cost is cost no matter what. You can die 5x in a t2 suit or a proto suit. If u dont have the capital to back it up dont use it excessively. You want to die 8x in a game and loss 400k isk, but still be rewarded. Why have a market then, if so long as u go positive u get money back? That will have people run expensive gear 24/7 knowing there isnt a consequence to dying except a loss of a clone count
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:51:00 - [19] - Quote 843 pano wrote: @Sentient Archon, If you look at the amortization of your payout over the games you played, you will see that you are well paid for your services. Seeing that you played 11 games and you made over 2 million isk, minus the 200K isk lost in the "bad" game you have a net of 1.8 million isk for your game play. Seems to be working correctly to me. True dude. I am just looking out for the little guy . This post is not about me. Its about those who cant afford. Its about those who dont belong to big corps because they are noobs and wont get accepted. I am glad I have my corp mates and alliance mates to help me out.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2012.11.07 16:54:00 - [20] - Quote Sentient, your idea of balance terrifies me. You're a great match for CCP. Also, match making will make it so it's always noobs vs noobs, so I don't think this is a huge issue.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.07 17:23:00 - [21] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: From what I've seen, ISK payout increase when you're using low-tier gear and taking out valuable enemy stuff. You get more credit for killing someone with a Militia Sniper Rifle than for the same kill with an Ishukone or something. Hmmmm. I didnt see that dude. I was rolling in my SVER BPO with militia mods for ***** and giggles. Went 10-2. Got quite a few hacks. The payout was measely 73K for 1350 WP. See that part where you said "got quite a few hacks"? That doesn't factor into what I was saying. And I'm pretty sure BPOs alter the equation too, because when I'm running pure BPO fits (of which I have several), I'm yet to see more than 100k. I should probably also mention that I haven't actually tested that very well in the current build, and am working more from OLD experience than anything up-to-date. But the little I've paid attention to seems to support the theory. Using the same AV build in 2 different battles, not getting any hacks, I got significantly more ISK for going 4-12 than I did with about 100 more WP when I went 12-3. First battle, I only got 4 kills, but all 4 were kills of enemies in high-value vehicles (2 kills with a Sagaris and a couple of expensive LAVs). The other battle I killed half a dozen Onikuma starter fits, and gunned a few people down with my SMG.
Cretian Sol BetaMax. 7	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:08:00 - [22] - Quote The economy will balance itself out once Dust goes live. The money issues will not be as big of an issue then. It is much like it was in Eve when I first started. The money didn't flow as easily as it does now. That was because instead of using an Osprey for a mining ship I have an exhumer that pulls in much more ore per laser cycle. Granted the players performance is the deciding factor here but that is just the way it is. Player X will either get better, quit or let shear determination keep them going and eventually they will be able to pull out better gear which will help them to possibly survive or do better damage. This type of game is a vicious one to survive in and teamwork will give all players involved in cooperation a better edge over the ones not working together. The best of the best will dominate and will continue to do very well and be paid for their performance (as they should). They will be the ones that more than likely will be hired by corps to maintain and or gain sovereignty. Since there is only one way to find a battle right now there is no other choice then to move along as it is. Especially since the game is still in beta. Once the merc and corp contracts are enable then the dynamics of this game will change tremendously.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:23:00 - [23] - Quote Buggy forums.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:23:00 - [24] - Quote 10011101 wrote: I find that hilarious an imperfect saying that you don't see people bring out loads of tanks or use strictly proto suits when I just saw one of his guys pull out 2 sagaris tanks, that is completely unfair to anyone who can't afford good AV, yet that guy pulls 2 million isk tanks Alldin is special
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:26:00 - [25] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: 843 pano wrote: @Sentient Archon, If you look at the amortization of your payout over the games you played, you will see that you are well paid for your services. Seeing that you played 11 games and you made over 2 million isk, minus the 200K isk lost in the "bad" game you have a net of 1.8 million isk for your game play. Seems to be working correctly to me. True dude. I am just looking out for the little guy . This post is not about me. Its about those who cant afford. Its about those who dont belong to big corps because they are noobs and wont get accepted. I am glad I have my corp mates and alliance mates to help me out. The problem with your situation, and consequently ours, is that we the market has not open up to allow us to sell whatever it is we salvaged. I have a fleet of high meta vehicles and a hoard of advanced/proto gear sitting in my hangar and are probably worth millions of ISK combined at this point. Once the market opens up (which should be pretty soon) no one will give a damn about the ISK payout if the salvage they gained is worth more than what they used. Then you have to factor in the ISK transfers from corporate CEOs to their grunts and from a typical Eve Online player to his Dust alt. Then factor in the (soon to be included) buy-sell market system that will one day allow mercs to make a profit off of market trading alone. And as others have pointed, there are also the contracts put out by big Dust corps that have you fighting in null-sec that pay top dollar for your services. Then there are the faction warfare payouts, etc. My point is for you to stop worrying so much about the ISK payouts. Once the tournament is over, we will probably see a wipe sometime about a week (or two) after that and god knows what changes are in store for us in the next build. You and I should hope that the market opens up some more.
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:33:00 - [26] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Isn't that a simple case of living beyond your means? Every player needs to find a point at which their losses are covered by their income. I was wondering when "Living beyond your means" trolls would start trolling my post and lo-behold, the very first post on my thread is one of those. You probably havent been in one of those games with me or other people when they have gone 20+ - 0. I am speaking for the little ones out here that have been destroyed out here by the pros. Trying to make a point son. If ya dont get it, ask! If the players are to put up a decent fight against a good tanker or dropship they need better gear. Militia gear tickles yo! And I was worried that I was responding to a troll myself There is free gear in game already, so there is no need for anyone - even the "little ones" to live beyond their means. The problem you describe is that cheap gear can't compete with expensive gear, and imho that is as it should be. The solution here would seem to me to be better matchmaking.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:38:00 - [27] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Alldin is special Ssssshhhhhhhhh no names
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:41:00 - [28] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: we will probably see a wipe sometime about a week (or two) after that and god knows what changes are in store for us in the next build. Yep. I really look forward to those wipes. Its is really nice to start the same BS over and over again. Maken Tosch wrote: You and I should hope that the market opens up some more. Yep. Market needs to open;- period.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:48:00 - [29] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: we will probably see a wipe sometime about a week (or two) after that and god knows what changes are in store for us in the next build. Yep. I really look forward to those wipes. Its is really nice to start the same BS over and over again. Maken Tosch wrote: You and I should hope that the market opens up some more. Yep. Market needs to open;- period. If you think starting over with the same ISK problem is BS, take a look at the US elections every four years. It's like Deja Vu that never ends.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:53:00 - [30] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Type 2 heavy suit = 13000 ISK MH2 Heavy Machine Gun = 32000 ISK Aur Damage Mods = 60 AUR Aur Repair Mod = 30 AUR Total payout after the game = 200K ISK Total kills in the game = 29 Total deaths in the game = 8 Total ISK loss due to deaths = 400K ISK Total ISK loss after game = 200K ISK Is it just me or is this absolute BS? And we are talking about just level 2 dropsuits out here. I think ISK payments should be made based on the role played by you in a game. These are the following areas where I feel ISK should be rewarded;- 1. ISK reward per kill depending on the kind of match Melee Kills - get the highest ISK Weapon kills - get the next higher ISK Grenade Kills - get lower than Weapon kills Vehicle kills - get the least ISK 2. Hacking and counter hacking objectives 3. Revieving teammates 4. Teams using spawn points 5. Having a KD less than 0.5 in a single game I see a lot of noobs going 0-18 and 1-12 etc etc etc. If anyone needs ISK it is these clowns. Done ranting! There's your problem

Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 349	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:56:00 - [31] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: 10011101 wrote: I find that hilarious an imperfect saying that you don't see people bring out loads of tanks or use strictly proto suits when I just saw one of his guys pull out 2 sagaris tanks, that is completely unfair to anyone who can't afford good AV, yet that guy pulls 2 million isk tanks Alldin is special rofl I thought this, bet he was pissed when he lost that tank lol thread is full of fail. You can QQ all you want, know your opponent and use the appropriate suits. if you are getting rofl stomped because your team is ****, use militia, if it's a fair game, use standard and if you are getting the upper hand use best to get better advantage. if you are dying 8 times in the same expensive suit you are a complete tool for not realising the first 3-4 times that this game is going to be expensive if you keep up your ways. The rule is 200k isk is average, know your cost per suit and adjust your suit usage according to the cost per death. The people who are using proto suits are doing it because they are good, in a squad and so are well structured. blueberries like to do their own thing and if you are one of them you are more than likely doing just that, which is plain stupid. so many solutions to this per game problem that I can't be bothered to go into it. QQ'ing about 200k isk. it's always been 200k.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:58:00 - [32] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: If you think starting over with the same ISK problem is BS, take a look at the US elections every four years. It's like Deja Vu that never ends. LMFAO. I hear ya man. Lulz.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:01:00 - [33] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: There's your problem Atleast I didnt loose a sigaris in a pub match. Twice
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:18:00 - [34] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: There's your problem Atleast I didnt loose a sigaris in a pub match. Twice It was once... I rushed in on a blob of AV reds (lol with a fail railgun) but was unable to drive backwards thanks to a wall.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:22:00 - [35] - Quote Yea, you aren't supposed to able to run top tier ISK classes all the time. That's the whole point of DUST. Top tier ISK classes are for corp battles, not pubs. Most of the best players in DUST will run militia fits when they are grinding in pubs because they are nearly as good. Focus on upgrading shields, armor, range, and damage. <------- that's what helps you win, not proto suits.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:28:00 - [36] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: lol with a fail railgun Those rails are epic fails lol. Blasters too. I put a couple of posts in the requests and feedback sections for CCP to give them back some love lol.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:38:00 - [37] - Quote Captain-Awesome wrote: You can QQ all you want Huh? Who is QQing out here? Read entire posts much or just go to the last one? Captain-Awesome wrote: The rule is 200k isk is average Rules are for fools. Captain-Awesome wrote: The people who are using proto suits are doing it because they are good, in a squad and so are well structured. Who is even talking about proto suits? Off topic dude
BobThe843CakeMan BurgezzE.T.F 132	Posted - 2012.11.07 21:57:00 - [38] - Quote so u want tanks which cost the most. To get the least wps also making them harder to buy. They already don't get squad order points why nerf the points what they get more??? Not like a 3-5 mil isk tank deying and then it takes u a wekk to buy a new one. Right now it's fine as far as tank wps go.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.11.07 23:01:00 - [39] - Quote I am not going to say that I like the low ISK payouts, but I do believe it serves a purpose. Most of us come from various FPS games, where you leveled up a character and had unlimited everything once you gained access to it. All we cared about was kills/deaths. This is what we are used to, and fond of. But in Dust, a player has to sometimes use a garbage suit to save up some ISK. Personally, I use my militia suit with a few additions (like nanos) about 80-90% of the time. I am naturally somebody who tries to spend money wisely, meaning if I buy something, I want to make sure I get as much out of it as possible. And I have a hard time spending money on things that can get consumed quickly. Well, the current problem with Dust right now is all the bugs, glitches, lag and frame-rate issues. Sometimes I use my good suit only to spawn right in front of a tank and die instantly, or join in a match that has severe frame-rate problems and die because I can barely move and get gunned down by some guy in militia gear, and each time I lose a decent amount of ISK for nothing. And that, above all, irritates the heck out of me. The thing is, the concept is good, as it forces players to play smarter/wiser and live longer, and use their good stuff only when necessary. But the problem is that currently we have no connection to EVE, so not only can we not sell all the TONS of salvage we get in each match, but EVE to Dust ISK transfers are not yet possible. I think once we get those two things, the low ISK payouts will mostly be a thing of the past. You will still have to play smarter so you don't end up with negative ISK after the match, but it will be much less extreme than it is now. Don't get me wrong, I would love to use my best suit 100% of the time without worry of losing all my ISK. But that is how the past FPS games played out, and perhaps it's time to move onto a new system that has consequences of playing poorly or recklessly.
Pranekt Tyrvoth Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 177	Posted - 2012.11.08 00:42:00 - [40] - Quote Whenever salvage is something you can sell in this game, you'll have a higher, more stable rate of isk. When EVE can offer Dust isk [without ccp taking it away], you won't have to worry as much. Market prices will still go up, so if neither of those categories applies to you, I suspect you'll be hurting. Nevertheless, playing a heavy tends to be more expensive than some other options -- our dropsuits are more expensive, our weapons are more expensive. I'd wager that if you aren't good at it (your matches should look something like 10-0/1, 15-0/1, 20-0/1. If you're dying a lot of times as a heavy, you're gonna be hating life upon game release.

NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 16	Posted - 2012.11.08 00:54:00 - [41] - Quote Once Dust goes live and those pilots up in EVE can start paying for battles, expect your wallet to grow immensely if you get hired on to one of those battles. Eve guys can just throw a **** ton of money at you. The beta battles are high sec contracts. No real payout, just practice mostly.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2012.11.08 05:51:00 - [42] - Quote I run a Type - II Heavy suit with a basic HMG and militia modules and make ~90k ISK (net) per match easily. If I'm rolling with my Forge Gun on Manus Peak, then I end up making even more from those nice, juicy LAV kills, plus I don't need the extra survivability so I can run with a cheaper suit (Depending on how the match goes, it's usually not hard to find a good defensive position). Just run with cheaper crap and stop spending 200k ISK on a basic loadout.
Dark Mosity Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.11.08 06:15:00 - [43] - Quote Can I ask a question Sentient Archon? Please don't take this as me trolling because that's not my intention. Did you ever play EvE? Pretty much in every "getting started" guide or video, including from the devs there is a saying. Don't fly what you can't afford to replace. That pretty much sums up dust also but in this case don't run with what you can't afford. They give you militia stuff for a reason. If you are going into a battle blind they I tend toward using a basic set up. Once I get the feel for the battle you can bring out your big guns. That is not to say I don't agree with you in part but I think right now they have just set it at the basic's. As other have said, once we get EvE players and low sec maps ISK wont be a problem.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.11.08 08:48:00 - [44] - Quote Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item? Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 131	Posted - 2012.11.08 09:01:00 - [45] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item? Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works. I do roughly the same except I use the Skinweave BPO. Can someone tell me how much you can make in EVE in roughly an hour doing whatever a reasonable ISK-gathering task is (in high sec)? Because if CCP wants our SP to be more like EVE, I see no reason why our ISK shouldn't at least come close. As for living within your means, even a good player who decides to play with an Assault or Scout suit for an entire match against other good players isn't going to be able to afford anything but the most frugal loadout. If the only people who can reasonably afford to play in suits worth 50k (or more) are the ones who are withdrawing millions of ISK from their corporations from Corp battle winnings, maybe the prices need to be lowered, because I feel like I haven't progressed gear-wise (for use in battle) in several weeks, despite the fact that I have plenty of SP spent on skills to do so. I don't think it's an unreasonable request to want more ISK when dying 5 or more times in a full match is easy for anything but snipers and tanks/dropships and can cost you more than you make.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 784	Posted - 2012.11.08 09:04:00 - [46] - Quote I agree with both the OP and the 'living beyond your means' posters. Yes, it's kind of crappy about the effort > payout ratio right now. And yes, there is a point where you're losing isk foolishly by spawning stuff you shouldn't in a situation. But if standard suits dying even a couple times makes someone go negative in earnings, I think there is a problem here. A full prototype loadout costs something like 200-400k ISK depending on suit and weapon(s). At the current payouts, dying even once with a suit like that makes you take a net loss for the match. If someone can't afford to use higher tier gear on a regular basis for even a couple spawns, what's the point of progression or even having higher grades of stuff if no one can afford to use it after they train for it? Having to save for multiple matches to even afford two spawns is not fun. Being stuck in standard/militia gear forever is similarily unfun.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 131	Posted - 2012.11.08 10:34:00 - [47] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Being stuck in standard/militia gear forever is similarily unfun. Yea, I have 4.2 million SP and I'm still using a Skinweave BPO suit fitted with all Militia gear except a GEK AR and a nanohive. I easily have the skills necessary to make a good Assault suit fit with a much better AR, but there's just no point unless I want to run negative by a wide margin. Where is the interesting progression in gear and skills that I always hear about in EVE? I wish they had suits where you didn't just need Caldari Assault Suit Level X, or Y, but instead had a lot more specialization between suits. Maybe there's an Assault suit that's a little faster and has more stamina and you need Caldari Assault Suit Level 3 and also Endurance Level 2 or something. Maybe one is a mix between an Assault Suit and a Heavy suit, with more armor and decreased speed, but it's still reasonably mobile. For that you'd need Caldari Assault Suit Level 3 and Amarr Heavy Suit (or whatever the heavy suit is) Level 2. The same ideas could be applied to weapons--maybe one shoots further (Light/Heavy/Sidearm Sharpshooter Skill necessary) or reloads quicker (Light/Heavy/Sidearm Reload Speed Skill necessary)--vehicles and so on.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.08 11:15:00 - [48] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item? Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works. Most of the time, I'm running with BPO weapons too. I reserve expensive fittings for times when I'm sure the game is acting stable and I feel like it's worth putting the extra ISK into things.
Knightshade Belladonna Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2012.11.08 14:34:00 - [49] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item? Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works. I do roughly the same except I use the Skinweave BPO. Can someone tell me how much you can make in EVE in roughly an hour doing whatever a reasonable ISK-gathering task is (in high sec)? Because if CCP wants our SP to be more like EVE, I see no reason why our ISK shouldn't at least come close. As for living within your means, even a good player who decides to play with an Assault or Scout suit for an entire match against other good players isn't going to be able to afford anything but the most frugal loadout. If the only people who can reasonably afford to play in suits worth 50k (or more) are the ones who are withdrawing millions of ISK from their corporations from Corp battle winnings, maybe the prices need to be lowered, because I feel like I haven't progressed gear-wise (for use in battle) in several weeks, despite the fact that I have plenty of SP spent on skills to do so. I don't think it's an unreasonable request to want more ISK when dying 5 or more times in a full match is easy for anything but snipers and tanks/dropships and can cost you more than you make. a reasonable average players earnings in hi sec is around 30-50 mil an hour. Some more experienced people who know a few hidden secrets to it can make 100-150 mil an hour, but not everyone can do that or the number would drop alot. Hi sec pve agent missions are where the easiest isk is for hi sec with the 30-50 mil earnings on average, some have perfected their mission grind and get upwards of 80 mil an hour doing the missions.. but they have invested ALOT in their ship to do it. oh an fk incursions, I don't know their numbers but some of them make a shitton of money , but many get excluded out from the oppurtunity to do it so I don't count their earnings for ****
CandleJack more rope 27	Posted - 2012.11.08 14:36:00 - [50] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Type 2 heavy suit = 13000 ISK MH2 Heavy Machine Gun = 32000 ISK Aur Damage Mods = 60 AUR Aur Repair Mod = 30 AUR Total payout after the game = 200K ISK Total kills in the game = 29 Total deaths in the game = 8 Total ISK loss due to deaths = 400K ISK Total ISK loss after game = 200K ISK Is it just me or is this absolute BS? And we are talking about just level 2 dropsuits out here. I think ISK payments should be made based on the role played by you in a game. These are the following areas where I feel ISK should be rewarded;- 1. ISK reward per kill depending on the kind of match Melee Kills - get the highest ISK Weapon kills - get the next higher ISK Grenade Kills - get lower than Weapon kills Vehicle kills - get the least ISK 2. Hacking and counter hacking objectives 3. Revieving teammates 4. Teams using spawn points 5. Having a KD less than 0.5 in a single game I see a lot of noobs going 0-18 and 1-12 etc etc etc. If anyone needs ISK it is these clowns. Done ranting! STOP crying



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