DUST Search - ISK payouts are BS

Parson Atreides wrote:

Rasatsu wrote:

Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item?

Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works.

I do roughly the same except I use the Skinweave BPO.

Can someone tell me how much you can make in EVE in roughly an hour doing whatever a reasonable ISK-gathering task is (in high sec)? Because if CCP wants our SP to be more like EVE, I see no reason why our ISK shouldn't at least come close.

As for living within your means, even a good player who decides to play with an Assault or Scout suit for an entire match against other good players isn't going to be able to afford anything but the most frugal loadout. If the only people who can reasonably afford to play in suits worth 50k (or more) are the ones who are withdrawing millions of ISK from their corporations from Corp battle winnings, maybe the prices need to be lowered, because I feel like I haven't progressed gear-wise (for use in battle) in several weeks, despite the fact that I have plenty of SP spent on skills to do so.

I don't think it's an unreasonable request to want more ISK when dying 5 or more times in a full match is easy for anything but snipers and tanks/dropships and can cost you more than you make.

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Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 349	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:56:00 - [31] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: 10011101 wrote: I find that hilarious an imperfect saying that you don't see people bring out loads of tanks or use strictly proto suits when I just saw one of his guys pull out 2 sagaris tanks, that is completely unfair to anyone who can't afford good AV, yet that guy pulls 2 million isk tanks Alldin is special rofl I thought this, bet he was pissed when he lost that tank lol thread is full of fail. You can QQ all you want, know your opponent and use the appropriate suits. if you are getting rofl stomped because your team is ****, use militia, if it's a fair game, use standard and if you are getting the upper hand use best to get better advantage. if you are dying 8 times in the same expensive suit you are a complete tool for not realising the first 3-4 times that this game is going to be expensive if you keep up your ways. The rule is 200k isk is average, know your cost per suit and adjust your suit usage according to the cost per death. The people who are using proto suits are doing it because they are good, in a squad and so are well structured. blueberries like to do their own thing and if you are one of them you are more than likely doing just that, which is plain stupid. so many solutions to this per game problem that I can't be bothered to go into it. QQ'ing about 200k isk. it's always been 200k.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:58:00 - [32] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: If you think starting over with the same ISK problem is BS, take a look at the US elections every four years. It's like Deja Vu that never ends. LMFAO. I hear ya man. Lulz.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:01:00 - [33] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: There's your problem Atleast I didnt loose a sigaris in a pub match. Twice
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:18:00 - [34] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: There's your problem Atleast I didnt loose a sigaris in a pub match. Twice It was once... I rushed in on a blob of AV reds (lol with a fail railgun) but was unable to drive backwards thanks to a wall.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:22:00 - [35] - Quote Yea, you aren't supposed to able to run top tier ISK classes all the time. That's the whole point of DUST. Top tier ISK classes are for corp battles, not pubs. Most of the best players in DUST will run militia fits when they are grinding in pubs because they are nearly as good. Focus on upgrading shields, armor, range, and damage. <------- that's what helps you win, not proto suits.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:28:00 - [36] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: lol with a fail railgun Those rails are epic fails lol. Blasters too. I put a couple of posts in the requests and feedback sections for CCP to give them back some love lol.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.07 19:38:00 - [37] - Quote Captain-Awesome wrote: You can QQ all you want Huh? Who is QQing out here? Read entire posts much or just go to the last one? Captain-Awesome wrote: The rule is 200k isk is average Rules are for fools. Captain-Awesome wrote: The people who are using proto suits are doing it because they are good, in a squad and so are well structured. Who is even talking about proto suits? Off topic dude
BobThe843CakeMan BurgezzE.T.F 132	Posted - 2012.11.07 21:57:00 - [38] - Quote so u want tanks which cost the most. To get the least wps also making them harder to buy. They already don't get squad order points why nerf the points what they get more??? Not like a 3-5 mil isk tank deying and then it takes u a wekk to buy a new one. Right now it's fine as far as tank wps go.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.11.07 23:01:00 - [39] - Quote I am not going to say that I like the low ISK payouts, but I do believe it serves a purpose. Most of us come from various FPS games, where you leveled up a character and had unlimited everything once you gained access to it. All we cared about was kills/deaths. This is what we are used to, and fond of. But in Dust, a player has to sometimes use a garbage suit to save up some ISK. Personally, I use my militia suit with a few additions (like nanos) about 80-90% of the time. I am naturally somebody who tries to spend money wisely, meaning if I buy something, I want to make sure I get as much out of it as possible. And I have a hard time spending money on things that can get consumed quickly. Well, the current problem with Dust right now is all the bugs, glitches, lag and frame-rate issues. Sometimes I use my good suit only to spawn right in front of a tank and die instantly, or join in a match that has severe frame-rate problems and die because I can barely move and get gunned down by some guy in militia gear, and each time I lose a decent amount of ISK for nothing. And that, above all, irritates the heck out of me. The thing is, the concept is good, as it forces players to play smarter/wiser and live longer, and use their good stuff only when necessary. But the problem is that currently we have no connection to EVE, so not only can we not sell all the TONS of salvage we get in each match, but EVE to Dust ISK transfers are not yet possible. I think once we get those two things, the low ISK payouts will mostly be a thing of the past. You will still have to play smarter so you don't end up with negative ISK after the match, but it will be much less extreme than it is now. Don't get me wrong, I would love to use my best suit 100% of the time without worry of losing all my ISK. But that is how the past FPS games played out, and perhaps it's time to move onto a new system that has consequences of playing poorly or recklessly.
Pranekt Tyrvoth Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 177	Posted - 2012.11.08 00:42:00 - [40] - Quote Whenever salvage is something you can sell in this game, you'll have a higher, more stable rate of isk. When EVE can offer Dust isk [without ccp taking it away], you won't have to worry as much. Market prices will still go up, so if neither of those categories applies to you, I suspect you'll be hurting. Nevertheless, playing a heavy tends to be more expensive than some other options -- our dropsuits are more expensive, our weapons are more expensive. I'd wager that if you aren't good at it (your matches should look something like 10-0/1, 15-0/1, 20-0/1. If you're dying a lot of times as a heavy, you're gonna be hating life upon game release.

NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 16	Posted - 2012.11.08 00:54:00 - [41] - Quote Once Dust goes live and those pilots up in EVE can start paying for battles, expect your wallet to grow immensely if you get hired on to one of those battles. Eve guys can just throw a **** ton of money at you. The beta battles are high sec contracts. No real payout, just practice mostly.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2012.11.08 05:51:00 - [42] - Quote I run a Type - II Heavy suit with a basic HMG and militia modules and make ~90k ISK (net) per match easily. If I'm rolling with my Forge Gun on Manus Peak, then I end up making even more from those nice, juicy LAV kills, plus I don't need the extra survivability so I can run with a cheaper suit (Depending on how the match goes, it's usually not hard to find a good defensive position). Just run with cheaper crap and stop spending 200k ISK on a basic loadout.
Dark Mosity Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.11.08 06:15:00 - [43] - Quote Can I ask a question Sentient Archon? Please don't take this as me trolling because that's not my intention. Did you ever play EvE? Pretty much in every "getting started" guide or video, including from the devs there is a saying. Don't fly what you can't afford to replace. That pretty much sums up dust also but in this case don't run with what you can't afford. They give you militia stuff for a reason. If you are going into a battle blind they I tend toward using a basic set up. Once I get the feel for the battle you can bring out your big guns. That is not to say I don't agree with you in part but I think right now they have just set it at the basic's. As other have said, once we get EvE players and low sec maps ISK wont be a problem.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.11.08 08:48:00 - [44] - Quote Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item? Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 131	Posted - 2012.11.08 09:01:00 - [45] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item? Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works. I do roughly the same except I use the Skinweave BPO. Can someone tell me how much you can make in EVE in roughly an hour doing whatever a reasonable ISK-gathering task is (in high sec)? Because if CCP wants our SP to be more like EVE, I see no reason why our ISK shouldn't at least come close. As for living within your means, even a good player who decides to play with an Assault or Scout suit for an entire match against other good players isn't going to be able to afford anything but the most frugal loadout. If the only people who can reasonably afford to play in suits worth 50k (or more) are the ones who are withdrawing millions of ISK from their corporations from Corp battle winnings, maybe the prices need to be lowered, because I feel like I haven't progressed gear-wise (for use in battle) in several weeks, despite the fact that I have plenty of SP spent on skills to do so. I don't think it's an unreasonable request to want more ISK when dying 5 or more times in a full match is easy for anything but snipers and tanks/dropships and can cost you more than you make.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 784	Posted - 2012.11.08 09:04:00 - [46] - Quote I agree with both the OP and the 'living beyond your means' posters. Yes, it's kind of crappy about the effort > payout ratio right now. And yes, there is a point where you're losing isk foolishly by spawning stuff you shouldn't in a situation. But if standard suits dying even a couple times makes someone go negative in earnings, I think there is a problem here. A full prototype loadout costs something like 200-400k ISK depending on suit and weapon(s). At the current payouts, dying even once with a suit like that makes you take a net loss for the match. If someone can't afford to use higher tier gear on a regular basis for even a couple spawns, what's the point of progression or even having higher grades of stuff if no one can afford to use it after they train for it? Having to save for multiple matches to even afford two spawns is not fun. Being stuck in standard/militia gear forever is similarily unfun.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 131	Posted - 2012.11.08 10:34:00 - [47] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Being stuck in standard/militia gear forever is similarily unfun. Yea, I have 4.2 million SP and I'm still using a Skinweave BPO suit fitted with all Militia gear except a GEK AR and a nanohive. I easily have the skills necessary to make a good Assault suit fit with a much better AR, but there's just no point unless I want to run negative by a wide margin. Where is the interesting progression in gear and skills that I always hear about in EVE? I wish they had suits where you didn't just need Caldari Assault Suit Level X, or Y, but instead had a lot more specialization between suits. Maybe there's an Assault suit that's a little faster and has more stamina and you need Caldari Assault Suit Level 3 and also Endurance Level 2 or something. Maybe one is a mix between an Assault Suit and a Heavy suit, with more armor and decreased speed, but it's still reasonably mobile. For that you'd need Caldari Assault Suit Level 3 and Amarr Heavy Suit (or whatever the heavy suit is) Level 2. The same ideas could be applied to weapons--maybe one shoots further (Light/Heavy/Sidearm Sharpshooter Skill necessary) or reloads quicker (Light/Heavy/Sidearm Reload Speed Skill necessary)--vehicles and so on.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.08 11:15:00 - [48] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item? Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works. Most of the time, I'm running with BPO weapons too. I reserve expensive fittings for times when I'm sure the game is acting stable and I feel like it's worth putting the extra ISK into things.
Knightshade Belladonna Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2012.11.08 14:34:00 - [49] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Am I the only one running around in pure militia / BPO'ed Type-I and only the weapon as an for-ISK item? Live within your means OP, that's how EVE works. I do roughly the same except I use the Skinweave BPO. Can someone tell me how much you can make in EVE in roughly an hour doing whatever a reasonable ISK-gathering task is (in high sec)? Because if CCP wants our SP to be more like EVE, I see no reason why our ISK shouldn't at least come close. As for living within your means, even a good player who decides to play with an Assault or Scout suit for an entire match against other good players isn't going to be able to afford anything but the most frugal loadout. If the only people who can reasonably afford to play in suits worth 50k (or more) are the ones who are withdrawing millions of ISK from their corporations from Corp battle winnings, maybe the prices need to be lowered, because I feel like I haven't progressed gear-wise (for use in battle) in several weeks, despite the fact that I have plenty of SP spent on skills to do so. I don't think it's an unreasonable request to want more ISK when dying 5 or more times in a full match is easy for anything but snipers and tanks/dropships and can cost you more than you make. a reasonable average players earnings in hi sec is around 30-50 mil an hour. Some more experienced people who know a few hidden secrets to it can make 100-150 mil an hour, but not everyone can do that or the number would drop alot. Hi sec pve agent missions are where the easiest isk is for hi sec with the 30-50 mil earnings on average, some have perfected their mission grind and get upwards of 80 mil an hour doing the missions.. but they have invested ALOT in their ship to do it. oh an fk incursions, I don't know their numbers but some of them make a shitton of money , but many get excluded out from the oppurtunity to do it so I don't count their earnings for ****
CandleJack more rope 27	Posted - 2012.11.08 14:36:00 - [50] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Type 2 heavy suit = 13000 ISK MH2 Heavy Machine Gun = 32000 ISK Aur Damage Mods = 60 AUR Aur Repair Mod = 30 AUR Total payout after the game = 200K ISK Total kills in the game = 29 Total deaths in the game = 8 Total ISK loss due to deaths = 400K ISK Total ISK loss after game = 200K ISK Is it just me or is this absolute BS? And we are talking about just level 2 dropsuits out here. I think ISK payments should be made based on the role played by you in a game. These are the following areas where I feel ISK should be rewarded;- 1. ISK reward per kill depending on the kind of match Melee Kills - get the highest ISK Weapon kills - get the next higher ISK Grenade Kills - get lower than Weapon kills Vehicle kills - get the least ISK 2. Hacking and counter hacking objectives 3. Revieving teammates 4. Teams using spawn points 5. Having a KD less than 0.5 in a single game I see a lot of noobs going 0-18 and 1-12 etc etc etc. If anyone needs ISK it is these clowns. Done ranting! STOP crying



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