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KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
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Posted - 2012.11.06 10:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Its good to know that CCP is working to reduce the "pay to win" stamp some will give Dust.
They removed the riddiculous OP direct hit Tukker nades and replaced them with a lvl 5 isk item called the same. They reduced the blast radius from 6 (or 6.6) m down to 2.5. As soon as this beta tourney is done I'll level it up and test them out. They might kill almost everything instantly, but at least now (I think) it will actually take some skill to hit people with them, which is a good thing.
They also removed the much loved and used "Stormside AR". This was an AR with proto stats, identical with the proto "Duvolle" gun if I'm not mistaken. The difference was that it had advanced fitting requirements; ca 47/8 cpu/pg, not the 90/13 that other proto guns have. This made it very popular, so popular that its still on the top 5 list of bought AUR items in the marketplace. That says a lot since it got removed early in the previous build.
So why didn't they remove the similar tactical "Codewish" AR? It's basically the same since its a proto stat gun with advanced cpu/pg recuirements. My guess is that it was at the time very little used compared to the "Stormside" and there were hardly any QQ on the forums about it. Should it be removed? The facts that its subject to some using modded controllers wich makes the gun much better than any other AR, its in a league of its own when people cheat, supports this claim. I've used it a lot and like it a lot. I think we should either remove all guns with proto stats requireing advanced cpu/pg fits, or keep a variety of guns with these kinds of stats.
A +10% light weapon damage modifier were also bootet. I can't really understand why. We now have the same item for the shotty/smg users and also for the heavy folks, why not for the light weapon wielders? What makes them so special that they need to be denied the same sort of support equipment that everyone else has access too?
Give us some AUR items that we actually want to buy, without them being either OP or having half the fitting requirements as the same kind of isk gear has. A very good example is the Assault dropsuits type-ll, the type-B and the VK1. Why can I only buy these with isk? I can buy all the other Assault dropsuits with AUR but not the ones that are actually good. I don't get it.
Why make it so complicated? Why can't all gear be AUR and ISK purchaseable? I want 50 Duvolle ARs, if I've been a good boy, saving much of my isk, I can simply buy them with isk, if I don't have isk I'll have to dig into my AUR reserves. Its quite simple. This will make "tayloring" my setups easier and I'll be able to field all I have unlocked with skills as long as I have AUR.
As a filthy AUR user I want as much choices as possible so can save my isk were and when I want to. (As an example: I've used a lot more AUR items leading up to this tourney to be able to have plenty of high tier isk only gear available for when the kittens hit the fan, and as the good boy I am I've also donated isk to be shared among the tankers and dropship users.) Lastly I can see the point of having some uniqe items, both ISK and AUR, from a sort of "keep the coolness exclusive" sort of standpoint.
I hope CCP gives me more stuff I actually want to buy, to ensure future profits and by extension secure the continued revenue making it possible for CCP to continue developing and enlarging the Dust universe. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
369
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Posted - 2012.11.06 10:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Regarding the "Codewish" Duvolle Tactical AR, it's currently bugged and will most likely get a fix soon. With that said I think it shouldn't have the same fitting requirements as the Advanced variant, because it gives too big of an advantage.
I don't think it should be removed, but just give it Prototype fitting requirements, so that people that want to save a little ISK can still buy it, but won't be at any advantage otherwise. |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
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Posted - 2012.11.06 10:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Regarding the "Codewish" Duvolle Tactical AR, it's currently bugged and will most likely get a fix soon. With that said I think it shouldn't have the same fitting requirements as the Advanced variant, because it gives too big of an advantage.
I don't think it should be removed, but just give it Prototype fitting requirements, so that people that want to save a little ISK can still buy it, but won't be at any advantage otherwise.
Then we are in agreement sir! |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
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Posted - 2012.11.06 11:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shut up about my Codewish, i expect a nerf but not to fitting requirements. |
Gaechti
BetaMax.
71
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Posted - 2012.11.06 11:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
aurum assault-A suit, the aurum shield extenders and the killswitch-AR (or codewish if you got the skill) make a pretty nice combo imho right now with very low SP requirement (think assault suit on 2 or 3 and AR at 3 or 4 and ur set). |
Gauder Berwyck
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
217
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Posted - 2012.11.06 11:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Shut up about my Codewish, i expect a nerf but not to fitting requirements.
Fitting requirements are the only pay2win items as I see it, so I'll be disappointed if they DIDN'T touch the fitting reqs. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2012.11.06 12:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
I dont get it... you can buy AUR-items that they are supperior then ISK-items.. and you still want buy same ISK-items via AUR? (probably now for same price in AUR like better AUR-items)
Use AUR... for AUR items. Spare AUR donate to the devs for extra pizza and beer.
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KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
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Posted - 2012.11.06 12:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Boost wrote:I dont get it... you can buy AUR-items that they are supperior then ISK-items.. and you still want buy same ISK-items via AUR? (probably now for same price in AUR like better AUR-items)
Use AUR... for AUR items. Spare AUR donate to the devs for extra pizza and beer.
Its not that hard JB. I don't want AUR items that are vastly superior to the their ISK counterparts. A proto AR wich just needs half the space to equip, in cpu and pg, its just too much of a difference.
Take the Stormside, i'is basically a Duvolle proto AR that needs about half the space as an normal isk Duvolle. Having the Stormside removed from the market was fair in my opinion cause its just too good. With such a good rifle that needs so little space you can put together a loadout thats just too good. This does not mean however that I don't want to be able to buy it provided it costs 90 cpu and 13 pg as is the same "space" as the isk Duvolle needs for being equipped.
In other words, give me the possiblity to buy for example the Duvolle with AUR, they don't have to make it OP like the Stormside (or Codewish for that matter) just make them available to buy for guys like me with plenty of AUR and too litlle skill...
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Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2012.11.06 13:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
... |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2012.11.06 13:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:
In other words, give me the possiblity to buy for example the Duvolle with AUR, they don't have to make it OP like the Stormside (or Codewish for that matter) just make them available to buy for guys like me with plenty of AUR and too litlle skill...
You ask for exactly the two things.
1. All items I can buy via AUR.
2. When I buy it via AUR ... you dont need better or any skils (SP tree)
From bussines look at this:
1. Ok :) Thx for your donation .. probably happen.
2. Not happen.. Duvolle AR still need a 4 level in AR, so this will not be a shortcut.
So. If you buy ISK-items via AUR you cant use it anyway without skils (I know you still can hammer me with it).
If they do point 2 as you wish... that will be game crash. All ppl will be in proto - everyting form the first day.
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
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Posted - 2012.11.06 13:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Everyone here who has played long enough would know by now that CCP intends to one day open the market to allow players to sell aurum items and suits for ISK. It's just like the PLEX system in Eve. Some have argued that not that many people will be so willing to sell their aurum stuff for ISK, but that is underestimating the organizational capacity of Eve players who not only have advanced market trading experience but who also have a PS3. And don't get me started on the Eve-DUST ISK transfers. |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
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Posted - 2012.11.06 13:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jack Boost wrote:KingBabar wrote:
In other words, give me the possiblity to buy for example the Duvolle with AUR, they don't have to make it OP like the Stormside (or Codewish for that matter) just make them available to buy for guys like me with plenty of AUR and too litlle skill...
You ask for exactly the two things. 1. All items I can buy via AUR. 2. When I buy it via AUR ... you dont need better or any skils (SP tree) From bussines look at this: 1. Ok :) Thx for your donation .. probably happen. 2. Not happen.. Duvolle AR still need a 4 level in AR, so this will not be a shortcut. So. If you buy ISK-items via AUR you cant use it anyway without skils (I know you still can hammer me with it). If they do point 2 as you wish... that will be game crash. All ppl will be in proto - everyting form the first day.
You miss-understand. At no point have I ever talked about what skill level you need for anything, thats totally beside the point. I don't care about the shortcuts, they're only good for the first couple of weeks anyway. I'll type it as simple as I can:
I want to be able to buy for example a Duvolle AR with AUR. There is no alternative to it but the ISK version. We had one called the "Stormside", but that got removed due to it being OP due to the low cpu/pg requirements. Please bring it back, but with same cpu/pg requirements as the isk Duvolle. This will make the guns equal in all way, even the skill level needed to use it, except that you need isk for one and aur for the other. Just make the stuff available to buy with AUR, I don't need it to be any better than the isk counterparts.
And I'm quite tired of taking 95% of your health JB, only to reload and getting killed.....  |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2012.11.06 13:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:And I'm quite tired of taking 95% of your health JB, only to reload and getting killed.....
Ok... ok.. I working too at part 'only to reload'. Soon (tm) we dont go that far.  |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 13:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
@King
So you want to spend real would money for an item you can get using ISK? Makes no sense at all. |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 14:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:@King
So you want to spend real would money for an item you can get using ISK? Makes no sense at all.
Depends on how much real money you have.... I want a Duvolle or better, simple as that. I can not however play good enough to pay 50K isk ++ every time I die, wich is a lot....
I don't think I'm alone in this, its potentially a great way for CCP to fund this game. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
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Posted - 2012.11.06 14:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Remember some items are supposed to be 'early access' eventually you wont need to buy them anymore. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2012.11.06 14:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
After market comes, you will be sell anyting from salvage and make enough ISK to buy anyting you want via ISK.
Another way is corp/player donation for you.
Now I got only smal margin of income after matches. But I manage to do this... so anyone can do the same ;)
Maybe even more, look at thread about snipers (not only tank/dropship users)
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Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2012.11.06 14:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:
Give us some AUR items that we actually want to buy, without them being either OP or having half the fitting requirements as the same kind of isk gear has. A very good example is the Assault dropsuits type-ll, the type-B and the VK1. Why can I only buy these with isk? I can buy all the other Assault dropsuits with AUR but not the ones that are actually good. I don't get it.
As a filthy AUR user I want as much choices as possible so can save my isk were and when I want to. (As an example: I've used a lot more AUR items leading up to this tourney to be able to have plenty of high tier isk only gear available for when the kittens hit the fan, and as the good boy I am I've also donated isk to be shared among the tankers and dropship users.) Lastly I can see the point of having some uniqe items, both ISK and AUR, from a sort of "keep the coolness exclusive" sort of standpoint.
As a fellow AUR scrub I approve this message. We need more AUR items.
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Kaze Eyrou
ROGUE SPADES
53
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Posted - 2012.11.06 16:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Depends on how much real money you have.... I want a Duvolle or better, simple as that. I can not however play good enough to pay 50K isk ++ every time I die, wich is a lot.... I don't think I'm alone in this, its potentially a great way for CCP to fund this game.
CCP has said that it won't be pay to win. What you are suggesting is just that. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2012.11.06 16:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kaze Eyrou wrote:CCP has said that it won't be pay to win. What you are suggesting is just that.
Dude everyone knows that AUR mods are not pay2win. This discussion is old and dead. Please dont bring it up. Let the dead remain burried. AUR mods are for this who cant no-life this game by playing 10-12 hours a day. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.06 16:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lower-tier AUR weapons, AND AUR weapons of EVERY class except ARs and HMGs, you pay for the AUR version of the weapon, and you get a weapon from the next tier up, saving ISK and saving on skill prerequisiste - BUT STILL WITH THE HIGHER-TIER FITTING REQUIREMENTS.
The Codewish AR is one of only two AUR weapons which can be labaled pay-to-win, because they come with higher-tier stats, but lower-tier fitting requirements. You CAN get a measurable advantage over players relying solely on ISK.
There's one HMG - the Broadside - which has the same statline as a higher-tier weapon, but with low-tier fitting requirements. That's it. EVERY other gun in the game, except those two, has appropriate fitting requirements for the quality of the weapon. Those two guns give you the mproved statline WITHOUT the PG/CPU cost an ISK variant can give. They're OBJECTIVELY BETTER than their ISK equivalents, instead of being pay-to-reduce-SP-requirements. |
Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
206
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Posted - 2012.11.06 17:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
I see where you are coming from KB, but what you are asking for goes against what ccp stated about aur items. They said they give minimal edge b/c of skill req or cpu/pg req, but when u die, you are actually losing money. Im not sure about you, but what is the benefit to me running aur vs isk items if the requirements are the same then, aside from skill level?. Ill hold aur for other items then, as the only time is really get costly is when u start using proto guns and such, otherwise i can run my good gear and afford 2-3 deaths per game to be even.
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Free Beers
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1032
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Posted - 2012.11.06 18:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aur items don't make you better. if you are a scrub you will still be a scrub. |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 19:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:I see where you are coming from KB, but what you are asking for goes against what ccp stated about aur items. They said they give minimal edge b/c of skill req or cpu/pg req, but when u die, you are actually losing money. Im not sure about you, but what is the benefit to me running aur vs isk items if the requirements are the same then, aside from skill level?. Ill hold aur for other items then, as the only time is really get costly is when u start using proto guns and such, otherwise i can run my good gear and afford 2-3 deaths per game to be even.
Yes thats all correct and your point id clear, however, many people have a lot more deaths and still want to roll with proto gear. Or they wanna roll on mostly aur to save up for some tanks and whatnot. It should be fairly obvious that these are the guys we want to do the funding... |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
442
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Posted - 2012.11.06 19:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Berserker007 wrote:I see where you are coming from KB, but what you are asking for goes against what ccp stated about aur items. They said they give minimal edge b/c of skill req or cpu/pg req, but when u die, you are actually losing money. Im not sure about you, but what is the benefit to me running aur vs isk items if the requirements are the same then, aside from skill level?. Ill hold aur for other items then, as the only time is really get costly is when u start using proto guns and such, otherwise i can run my good gear and afford 2-3 deaths per game to be even.
Yes thats all correct and your point id clear, however, many people have a lot more deaths and still want to roll with proto gear. Or they wanna roll on mostly aur to save up for some tanks and whatnot. It should be fairly obvious that these are the guys we want to do the funding...
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.06 19:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Aur items don't make you better. if you are a scrub you will still be a scrub.
They give enough of an edge to give a better grenade, or an extra low-cost item to a good player, and that can be enough to tip the scales in a close fight.
They also give enough of an edge to potentially allow a bad player to beat a mediocre one.
I don't think they need to change MUCH, but the current difference is a bit much, imo. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.11.06 20:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aur early access is fine like now is fine. The aur suits should follow and be one level lower needed to use them.
The stormside, broadside, and others with adv fitting and proto stats are the only items bordering on pay-to-win.
Best fix rather then remove them is to add a non-aur with higher fitting needs. Maybe named after npc milatry groups, like Valklear issue HMG or Black Eagle issue Tac AR.
These could be isk items, or they could add a LP store like EvE. Explanation for non-EvE players, PVE gives isk and LP as payment for missions. The LP are loyalty points redeemable in a store run by the issuing company for items better then isk gear but worse then officer gear. LP gear is faction specific, so a amarr loyalist would not be able to buy a minmatar hmg, they would have to buy it off the secondary market for a markup or buy the aur version.
This would balance them out well enough adv weapons weapons with standard fitting could be added for aur/lp.
The isk items for aur will probably be done by allowing the resale of aur items on open market to raise isk. This undermines argument it is pay-to-win, makes aur user have more options, retains ccp profit, and is how eve does it with plex. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 22:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Berserker007 wrote:I see where you are coming from KB, but what you are asking for goes against what ccp stated about aur items. They said they give minimal edge b/c of skill req or cpu/pg req, but when u die, you are actually losing money. Im not sure about you, but what is the benefit to me running aur vs isk items if the requirements are the same then, aside from skill level?. Ill hold aur for other items then, as the only time is really get costly is when u start using proto guns and such, otherwise i can run my good gear and afford 2-3 deaths per game to be even.
Yes thats all correct and your point id clear, however, many people have a lot more deaths and still want to roll with proto gear. Or they wanna roll on mostly aur to save up for some tanks and whatnot. It should be fairly obvious that these are the guys we want to do the funding...
Not happening. It may give CCP a lot of money, but it goes against their core principles. They learned a very hard lesson back in 2010 during the Jita riots and since then they have kept to their principles which made them loved by Eve players. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 22:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
PS: the guinness book of world records (gaming edition) for 2010 ranked CCP #1 for most player walk outs in a single month due to the Jita riots. Not the kind of PR CCP had in mind. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
810
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Posted - 2012.11.06 22:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:I
Why make it so complicated? Why can't all gear be AUR and ISK purchaseable? I want 50 Duvolle ARs, if I've been a good boy, saving much of my isk, I can simply buy them with isk, if I don't have isk I'll have to dig into my AUR reserves. Its quite simple. This will make "tayloring" my setups easier and I'll be able to field all I have unlocked with skills as long as I have AUR.
It is a bit odd to make some items ISK only, while the "AUR items" will be purchasable with AUR or ISK. I suppose it's just a byproduct of how the player market operates since you can't buy AUR with ISK, but can buy "AUR items" with ISK. Still, it does look odd on paper. |
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