DUST Search - My take on AUR items 2.0

All Channels

General Discussions

My take on AUR items 2.0

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.11.06 10:20:00 - [1] - Quote Its good to know that CCP is working to reduce the "pay to win" stamp some will give Dust. They removed the riddiculous OP direct hit Tukker nades and replaced them with a lvl 5 isk item called the same. They reduced the blast radius from 6 (or 6.6) m down to 2.5. As soon as this beta tourney is done I'll level it up and test them out. They might kill almost everything instantly, but at least now (I think) it will actually take some skill to hit people with them, which is a good thing. They also removed the much loved and used "Stormside AR". This was an AR with proto stats, identical with the proto "Duvolle" gun if I'm not mistaken. The difference was that it had advanced fitting requirements; ca 47/8 cpu/pg, not the 90/13 that other proto guns have. This made it very popular, so popular that its still on the top 5 list of bought AUR items in the marketplace. That says a lot since it got removed early in the previous build. So why didn't they remove the similar tactical "Codewish" AR? It's basically the same since its a proto stat gun with advanced cpu/pg recuirements. My guess is that it was at the time very little used compared to the "Stormside" and there were hardly any QQ on the forums about it. Should it be removed? The facts that its subject to some using modded controllers wich makes the gun much better than any other AR, its in a league of its own when people cheat, supports this claim. I've used it a lot and like it a lot. I think we should either remove all guns with proto stats requireing advanced cpu/pg fits, or keep a variety of guns with these kinds of stats. A +10% light weapon damage modifier were also bootet. I can't really understand why. We now have the same item for the shotty/smg users and also for the heavy folks, why not for the light weapon wielders? What makes them so special that they need to be denied the same sort of support equipment that everyone else has access too? Give us some AUR items that we actually want to buy, without them being either OP or having half the fitting requirements as the same kind of isk gear has. A very good example is the Assault dropsuits type-ll, the type-B and the VK1. Why can I only buy these with isk? I can buy all the other Assault dropsuits with AUR but not the ones that are actually good. I don't get it. Why make it so complicated? Why can't all gear be AUR and ISK purchaseable? I want 50 Duvolle ARs, if I've been a good boy, saving much of my isk, I can simply buy them with isk, if I don't have isk I'll have to dig into my AUR reserves. Its quite simple. This will make "tayloring" my setups easier and I'll be able to field all I have unlocked with skills as long as I have AUR. As a filthy AUR user I want as much choices as possible so can save my isk were and when I want to. (As an example: I've used a lot more AUR items leading up to this tourney to be able to have plenty of high tier isk only gear available for when the kittens hit the fan, and as the good boy I am I've also donated isk to be shared among the tankers and dropship users.) Lastly I can see the point of having some uniqe items, both ISK and AUR, from a sort of "keep the coolness exclusive" sort of standpoint. I hope CCP gives me more stuff I actually want to buy, to ensure future profits and by extension secure the continued revenue making it possible for CCP to continue developing and enlarging the Dust universe.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2012.11.06 10:36:00 - [2] - Quote Regarding the "Codewish" Duvolle Tactical AR, it's currently bugged and will most likely get a fix soon. With that said I think it shouldn't have the same fitting requirements as the Advanced variant, because it gives too big of an advantage. I don't think it should be removed, but just give it Prototype fitting requirements, so that people that want to save a little ISK can still buy it, but won't be at any advantage otherwise.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.11.06 10:42:00 - [3] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Regarding the "Codewish" Duvolle Tactical AR, it's currently bugged and will most likely get a fix soon. With that said I think it shouldn't have the same fitting requirements as the Advanced variant, because it gives too big of an advantage. I don't think it should be removed, but just give it Prototype fitting requirements, so that people that want to save a little ISK can still buy it, but won't be at any advantage otherwise. Then we are in agreement sir!
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.11.06 11:09:00 - [4] - Quote Shut up about my Codewish, i expect a nerf but not to fitting requirements.
Gaechti BetaMax. 71	Posted - 2012.11.06 11:15:00 - [5] - Quote aurum assault-A suit, the aurum shield extenders and the killswitch-AR (or codewish if you got the skill) make a pretty nice combo imho right now with very low SP requirement (think assault suit on 2 or 3 and AR at 3 or 4 and ur set).
Gauder Berwyck Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 217	Posted - 2012.11.06 11:41:00 - [6] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Shut up about my Codewish, i expect a nerf but not to fitting requirements. Fitting requirements are the only pay2win items as I see it, so I'll be disappointed if they DIDN'T touch the fitting reqs.
Jack Boost Zarena Family 194	Posted - 2012.11.06 12:26:00 - [7] - Quote I dont get it... you can buy AUR-items that they are supperior then ISK-items.. and you still want buy same ISK-items via AUR? (probably now for same price in AUR like better AUR-items) Use AUR... for AUR items. Spare AUR donate to the devs for extra pizza and beer.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.11.06 12:53:00 - [8] - Quote Jack Boost wrote: I dont get it... you can buy AUR-items that they are supperior then ISK-items.. and you still want buy same ISK-items via AUR? (probably now for same price in AUR like better AUR-items) Use AUR... for AUR items. Spare AUR donate to the devs for extra pizza and beer. Its not that hard JB. I don't want AUR items that are vastly superior to the their ISK counterparts. A proto AR wich just needs half the space to equip, in cpu and pg, its just too much of a difference. Take the Stormside, i'is basically a Duvolle proto AR that needs about half the space as an normal isk Duvolle. Having the Stormside removed from the market was fair in my opinion cause its just too good. With such a good rifle that needs so little space you can put together a loadout thats just too good. This does not mean however that I don't want to be able to buy it provided it costs 90 cpu and 13 pg as is the same "space" as the isk Duvolle needs for being equipped. In other words, give me the possiblity to buy for example the Duvolle with AUR, they don't have to make it OP like the Stormside (or Codewish for that matter) just make them available to buy for guys like me with plenty of AUR and too litlle skill...
Jack Boost Zarena Family 194	Posted - 2012.11.06 13:23:00 - [9] - Quote ...
Jack Boost Zarena Family 194	Posted - 2012.11.06 13:24:00 - [10] - Quote KingBabar wrote: In other words, give me the possiblity to buy for example the Duvolle with AUR, they don't have to make it OP like the Stormside (or Codewish for that matter) just make them available to buy for guys like me with plenty of AUR and too litlle skill... You ask for exactly the two things. 1. All items I can buy via AUR. 2. When I buy it via AUR ... you dont need better or any skils (SP tree) From bussines look at this: 1. Ok :) Thx for your donation .. probably happen. 2. Not happen.. Duvolle AR still need a 4 level in AR, so this will not be a shortcut. So. If you buy ISK-items via AUR you cant use it anyway without skils (I know you still can hammer me with it). If they do point 2 as you wish... that will be game crash. All ppl will be in proto - everyting form the first day.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.06 13:36:00 - [11] - Quote Everyone here who has played long enough would know by now that CCP intends to one day open the market to allow players to sell aurum items and suits for ISK. It's just like the PLEX system in Eve. Some have argued that not that many people will be so willing to sell their aurum stuff for ISK, but that is underestimating the organizational capacity of Eve players who not only have advanced market trading experience but who also have a PS3. And don't get me started on the Eve-DUST ISK transfers.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.11.06 13:42:00 - [12] - Quote Jack Boost wrote: KingBabar wrote: In other words, give me the possiblity to buy for example the Duvolle with AUR, they don't have to make it OP like the Stormside (or Codewish for that matter) just make them available to buy for guys like me with plenty of AUR and too litlle skill... You ask for exactly the two things. 1. All items I can buy via AUR. 2. When I buy it via AUR ... you dont need better or any skils (SP tree) From bussines look at this: 1. Ok :) Thx for your donation .. probably happen. 2. Not happen.. Duvolle AR still need a 4 level in AR, so this will not be a shortcut. So. If you buy ISK-items via AUR you cant use it anyway without skils (I know you still can hammer me with it). If they do point 2 as you wish... that will be game crash. All ppl will be in proto - everyting form the first day. You miss-understand. At no point have I ever talked about what skill level you need for anything, thats totally beside the point. I don't care about the shortcuts, they're only good for the first couple of weeks anyway. I'll type it as simple as I can: I want to be able to buy for example a Duvolle AR with AUR. There is no alternative to it but the ISK version. We had one called the "Stormside", but that got removed due to it being OP due to the low cpu/pg requirements. Please bring it back, but with same cpu/pg requirements as the isk Duvolle. This will make the guns equal in all way, even the skill level needed to use it, except that you need isk for one and aur for the other. Just make the stuff available to buy with AUR, I don't need it to be any better than the isk counterparts. And I'm quite tired of taking 95% of your health JB, only to reload and getting killed.....
Jack Boost Zarena Family 194	Posted - 2012.11.06 13:52:00 - [13] - Quote KingBabar wrote: And I'm quite tired of taking 95% of your health JB, only to reload and getting killed..... Ok... ok.. I working too at part 'only to reload'. Soon (tm) we dont go that far.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.06 13:54:00 - [14] - Quote @King So you want to spend real would money for an item you can get using ISK? Makes no sense at all.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.11.06 14:01:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @King So you want to spend real would money for an item you can get using ISK? Makes no sense at all. Depends on how much real money you have.... I want a Duvolle or better, simple as that. I can not however play good enough to pay 50K isk ++ every time I die, wich is a lot.... I don't think I'm alone in this, its potentially a great way for CCP to fund this game.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.11.06 14:04:00 - [16] - Quote Remember some items are supposed to be 'early access' eventually you wont need to buy them anymore.
Jack Boost Zarena Family 194	Posted - 2012.11.06 14:09:00 - [17] - Quote After market comes, you will be sell anyting from salvage and make enough ISK to buy anyting you want via ISK. Another way is corp/player donation for you. Now I got only smal margin of income after matches. But I manage to do this... so anyone can do the same ;) Maybe even more, look at thread about snipers (not only tank/dropship users)
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.06 14:24:00 - [18] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Give us some AUR items that we actually want to buy, without them being either OP or having half the fitting requirements as the same kind of isk gear has. A very good example is the Assault dropsuits type-ll, the type-B and the VK1. Why can I only buy these with isk? I can buy all the other Assault dropsuits with AUR but not the ones that are actually good. I don't get it. As a filthy AUR user I want as much choices as possible so can save my isk were and when I want to. (As an example: I've used a lot more AUR items leading up to this tourney to be able to have plenty of high tier isk only gear available for when the kittens hit the fan, and as the good boy I am I've also donated isk to be shared among the tankers and dropship users.) Lastly I can see the point of having some uniqe items, both ISK and AUR, from a sort of "keep the coolness exclusive" sort of standpoint. As a fellow AUR scrub I approve this message. We need more AUR items.
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES 53	Posted - 2012.11.06 16:00:00 - [19] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Depends on how much real money you have.... I want a Duvolle or better, simple as that. I can not however play good enough to pay 50K isk ++ every time I die, wich is a lot.... I don't think I'm alone in this, its potentially a great way for CCP to fund this game. CCP has said that it won't be pay to win. What you are suggesting is just that.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.11.06 16:03:00 - [20] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: CCP has said that it won't be pay to win. What you are suggesting is just that. Dude everyone knows that AUR mods are not pay2win. This discussion is old and dead. Please dont bring it up. Let the dead remain burried. AUR mods are for this who cant no-life this game by playing 10-12 hours a day.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.06 16:58:00 - [21] - Quote Lower-tier AUR weapons, AND AUR weapons of EVERY class except ARs and HMGs, you pay for the AUR version of the weapon, and you get a weapon from the next tier up, saving ISK and saving on skill prerequisiste - BUT STILL WITH THE HIGHER-TIER FITTING REQUIREMENTS. The Codewish AR is one of only two AUR weapons which can be labaled pay-to-win, because they come with higher-tier stats, but lower-tier fitting requirements. You CAN get a measurable advantage over players relying solely on ISK. There's one HMG - the Broadside - which has the same statline as a higher-tier weapon, but with low-tier fitting requirements. That's it. EVERY other gun in the game, except those two, has appropriate fitting requirements for the quality of the weapon. Those two guns give you the mproved statline WITHOUT the PG/CPU cost an ISK variant can give. They're OBJECTIVELY BETTER than their ISK equivalents, instead of being pay-to-reduce-SP-requirements.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.11.06 17:44:00 - [22] - Quote I see where you are coming from KB, but what you are asking for goes against what ccp stated about aur items. They said they give minimal edge b/c of skill req or cpu/pg req, but when u die, you are actually losing money. Im not sure about you, but what is the benefit to me running aur vs isk items if the requirements are the same then, aside from skill level?. Ill hold aur for other items then, as the only time is really get costly is when u start using proto guns and such, otherwise i can run my good gear and afford 2-3 deaths per game to be even.
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1032	Posted - 2012.11.06 18:09:00 - [23] - Quote Aur items don't make you better. if you are a scrub you will still be a scrub.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.11.06 19:27:00 - [24] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: I see where you are coming from KB, but what you are asking for goes against what ccp stated about aur items. They said they give minimal edge b/c of skill req or cpu/pg req, but when u die, you are actually losing money. Im not sure about you, but what is the benefit to me running aur vs isk items if the requirements are the same then, aside from skill level?. Ill hold aur for other items then, as the only time is really get costly is when u start using proto guns and such, otherwise i can run my good gear and afford 2-3 deaths per game to be even. Yes thats all correct and your point id clear, however, many people have a lot more deaths and still want to roll with proto gear. Or they wanna roll on mostly aur to save up for some tanks and whatnot. It should be fairly obvious that these are the guys we want to do the funding...
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.11.06 19:27:00 - [25] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Berserker007 wrote: I see where you are coming from KB, but what you are asking for goes against what ccp stated about aur items. They said they give minimal edge b/c of skill req or cpu/pg req, but when u die, you are actually losing money. Im not sure about you, but what is the benefit to me running aur vs isk items if the requirements are the same then, aside from skill level?. Ill hold aur for other items then, as the only time is really get costly is when u start using proto guns and such, otherwise i can run my good gear and afford 2-3 deaths per game to be even. Yes thats all correct and your point id clear, however, many people have a lot more deaths and still want to roll with proto gear. Or they wanna roll on mostly aur to save up for some tanks and whatnot. It should be fairly obvious that these are the guys we want to do the funding...
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.06 19:54:00 - [26] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Aur items don't make you better. if you are a scrub you will still be a scrub. They give enough of an edge to give a better grenade, or an extra low-cost item to a good player, and that can be enough to tip the scales in a close fight. They also give enough of an edge to potentially allow a bad player to beat a mediocre one. I don't think they need to change MUCH, but the current difference is a bit much, imo.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.11.06 20:08:00 - [27] - Quote Aur early access is fine like now is fine. The aur suits should follow and be one level lower needed to use them. The stormside, broadside, and others with adv fitting and proto stats are the only items bordering on pay-to-win. Best fix rather then remove them is to add a non-aur with higher fitting needs. Maybe named after npc milatry groups, like Valklear issue HMG or Black Eagle issue Tac AR. These could be isk items, or they could add a LP store like EvE. Explanation for non-EvE players, PVE gives isk and LP as payment for missions. The LP are loyalty points redeemable in a store run by the issuing company for items better then isk gear but worse then officer gear. LP gear is faction specific, so a amarr loyalist would not be able to buy a minmatar hmg, they would have to buy it off the secondary market for a markup or buy the aur version. This would balance them out well enough adv weapons weapons with standard fitting could be added for aur/lp. The isk items for aur will probably be done by allowing the resale of aur items on open market to raise isk. This undermines argument it is pay-to-win, makes aur user have more options, retains ccp profit, and is how eve does it with plex.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.06 22:25:00 - [28] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Berserker007 wrote: I see where you are coming from KB, but what you are asking for goes against what ccp stated about aur items. They said they give minimal edge b/c of skill req or cpu/pg req, but when u die, you are actually losing money. Im not sure about you, but what is the benefit to me running aur vs isk items if the requirements are the same then, aside from skill level?. Ill hold aur for other items then, as the only time is really get costly is when u start using proto guns and such, otherwise i can run my good gear and afford 2-3 deaths per game to be even. Yes thats all correct and your point id clear, however, many people have a lot more deaths and still want to roll with proto gear. Or they wanna roll on mostly aur to save up for some tanks and whatnot. It should be fairly obvious that these are the guys we want to do the funding... Not happening. It may give CCP a lot of money, but it goes against their core principles. They learned a very hard lesson back in 2010 during the Jita riots and since then they have kept to their principles which made them loved by Eve players.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.06 22:29:00 - [29] - Quote PS: the guinness book of world records (gaming edition) for 2010 ranked CCP #1 for most player walk outs in a single month due to the Jita riots. Not the kind of PR CCP had in mind.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.11.06 22:45:00 - [30] - Quote KingBabar wrote: I Why make it so complicated? Why can't all gear be AUR and ISK purchaseable? I want 50 Duvolle ARs, if I've been a good boy, saving much of my isk, I can simply buy them with isk, if I don't have isk I'll have to dig into my AUR reserves. Its quite simple. This will make "tayloring" my setups easier and I'll be able to field all I have unlocked with skills as long as I have AUR. It is a bit odd to make some items ISK only, while the "AUR items" will be purchasable with AUR or ISK. I suppose it's just a byproduct of how the player market operates since you can't buy AUR with ISK, but can buy "AUR items" with ISK. Still, it does look odd on paper.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.11.07 14:40:00 - [31] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: KingBabar wrote: I Why make it so complicated? Why can't all gear be AUR and ISK purchaseable? I want 50 Duvolle ARs, if I've been a good boy, saving much of my isk, I can simply buy them with isk, if I don't have isk I'll have to dig into my AUR reserves. Its quite simple. This will make "tayloring" my setups easier and I'll be able to field all I have unlocked with skills as long as I have AUR. It is a bit odd to make some items ISK only, while the "AUR items" will be purchasable with AUR or ISK. I suppose it's just a byproduct of how the player market operates since you can't buy AUR with ISK, but can buy "AUR items" with ISK. Still, it does look odd on paper. No, it's not odd at all. It makes sense in order to help avoid or mitigate a pay-to-win situation which is what CCP is trying to avoid. CCP, unlike some other companies, don't want the pay-to-win scenario in any of their products because of the stigma it brings and how it may hurt their subscriber base. Eve Online follows a balanced PLEX system which originally was thought to be pay-to-win by those new to the concept but it later turned out to be fair and balanced. This is how PLEX functions. For those who don't play Eve Online and don't know what I'm talking about, here is a nice explanation. Terminology PLEX = Pilot License Extension - Used to extend game time per account by either 30 or 90 days and can be bought and sold with ISK in the player-driven market. Those who have squirled away enough ISK (about 580million - 600million ISK/unit in Jita at the moment) will have effectively maintained their subscriptions without so much as paying a single real-world currency other than the starting cost of setting up an account. Many players hoard dozens (if not hundreds) of such commodities in their hangars for the sake of just constantly trading while only using one per month to extend their game time. GTC = Game Time Codes - Acquired via real-world currency to add game time to Eve Online. It is first bought from any CCP-endorsed third party website with money and then the player converts the time code into PLEX after entering the number in Eve Online. The PLEX then shows up in the hangar of the player where he last logged off. AUR = Aurum - A secondary currency that is acquired by converting PLEX into AUR via the Noble Exchange (NeX) store. The AUR is then spent buying vanity items such a shirts, pants, boots, and monocles. Currently there is no way to trade or transfer AUR from one capsuleer to another in Eve Online. NeX Store Vanity Items = Purchasable with AUR if acquired directly from the NeX store. But the player can turn around and sell those same vanity items to other players for ISK in the open market or through the contract system just like PLEX. The Point The point of this is to prevent a pay-to-win scenario because it allows players who may not be rich in the real world to catch up by being rich in the Eve universe. Items in the Eve Online that are only bought with ISK (modules, ships, ammo, etc.) cannot be purchased with AUR at all because it makes no sense to pay CASH for an item that you can already acquire with just ISK that you can grind for or acquire via a GTC. However, the availability of these AUR-based items for ISK in the player-driven market affects their overall ISK price and thus affects the players' choices as to whether or not to spend ISK for PLEX or NeX items or to simply spend CASH for the same things. For example: If the PLEX market shows low supply and high demand, the ISK/unit price of PLEX will shoot up like a skyfire battery. ISK price would be too expensive for the average player. As a result, players can simply purchase PLEX by purchasing a GTC that is later converted to PLEX and redeemed for extra game time. At the same time, PLEX traders will take advantage of the price hike by selling what little stash of PLEX they squirled away or converted from GTCs. The market for PLEX will then be replenished due to player greed and ultimately the ISK/unit price of PLEX will drop to more manageable levels. Rinse and repeat. Summary This is the setup that Eve Online has going on and it has worked well so far since 2009 for CCP because it has brought them a lot of money and has helped the avoid the pay-to-win stamp. Dust 514 will also have it's own open market where players can simply trade commodities and earn massive profits through the margins which they can later use to fund their ground wars. I am curious to see how a PLEX system can work in Dust 514, but since PLEX is mainly used for extending game time to Eve Online players, it's difficult to see how that would ever work.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 391	Posted - 2012.11.07 15:22:00 - [32] - Quote so i learned something today... thanks for the post, Maken.


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.