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Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2012.10.20 23:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Flux Grenade is a neat idea - a weapon that obliterates shields, letting you attack the armor almost immediately. However, it can cause a balance issue, as it allows players to destroy anything Caldari, causing their war machines to fall behind armor-tanking races on an intelligent battlefield. To put the power back into balance, Caldari engineers have come up with a devious solution - nanobot grenades.
Concept: a grenade that destroys armor, while leaving the shield and underlying "meatbag" intact.
Function: used like a Flux, causes high armor damage even with the shields up, but does not kill.
>when it hits a suit : If the armor is less than grenade damage, it will leave "meatbag" health and shield untouched, while eliminating the armor entirely. >when it hits a vehicle or installation: As vehicles die when armor is 0, the Nano-Grenade leaves 1-10 HP of armor left, depending on quality level.
Technology : (can be skipped) The nanobot grenade is a miniscule amount of explosive, surrounded by a specialized "anti-nanite" swarm. Detonation disperses the anti-nanites without creating an audible blast, allowing covert use. The anti-nanites themselves are designed to incorporate into armor systems by masquerading as repair-bots. Once integrated, they disperse a computer virus that causes the repair-bots to degrade the armor, while scrambling repair modules on the vehicle. As this entire operation happens in less than 1/10th of a second, the damage is done before the main control unit can suppress the infection.
EDIT : Apparently, I have to mention that New Eden technology does allow shield penetration, especially at low shield HP. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.10.20 23:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nothing can go through the shields without taking them down first and it wouldn't make sense otherwise. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
391
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Posted - 2012.10.21 00:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
i like the concept of an anti armor grenade, but seeing that there are already AV grenades it seems rather redundant.
maybe if it just weakened armor and prevented healing?
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Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2012.10.21 09:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
The idea is to behave the same way as the flux - killing one health bar leaving others intact - differing simply by what HP bar you are disrupting. I gave a Focus Belt-style effect to keep it from killing vehicles, since they don't seem to have any structure. (obscure reference, I know) the tech section explains how it gets around the shield systems, if that's the part you're worried about. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
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Posted - 2012.10.21 10:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's not a bad idea. But with burn damage, it just means they would be more useful against caldari vehicles than flux grenades since caldari vehicles have so few armor HP. So, you're kind of just adding another problem instead of making a creative addition :S
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Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2012.10.21 23:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
@nova: Forgot about that. IMO, that fire-damage effect is just silly, especially since the armor is STILL STRONG when it happens. On top of that, what the heck is a military vehicle in 22,000 A.D. doing without fire suppression systems!?!?!? |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.10.22 02:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:The idea is to behave the same way as the flux - killing one health bar leaving others intact - differing simply by what HP bar you are disrupting. I gave a Focus Belt-style effect to keep it from killing vehicles, since they don't seem to have any structure. (obscure reference, I know) the tech section explains how it gets around the shield systems, if that's the part you're worried about.
It doesn't work like that, you have to go through shields to get to armour so this idea would be op as it would lower all of your HP completely |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2012.10.22 13:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
It appears people have missed the point. Yes, shields usually block weapons before reaching armor. And I KNOW that other weapons hurt shields first.
This grenade is NOT, repeat NOT, meant to directly kill or replace AV in overall effectiveness. What it is meant to do have a similar ability as a flux grenade, simply against armor instead, Without Touching Shields AT ALL. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.10.22 14:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
The one shotting of shields with the flux is bad enough, imagine the grenade spam we would get if one of each was all you had to have to kill anything on the field. |
ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
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Posted - 2012.10.22 19:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
dear God what if these work on troops? - 1. wepons like this would render shield tanking obsolete. not that I care :P |
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STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.10.22 22:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:It appears people have missed the point. Yes, shields usually block weapons before reaching armor. And I KNOW that other weapons hurt shields first.
This grenade is NOT, repeat NOT, meant to directly kill or replace AV in overall effectiveness. What it is meant to do have a similar ability as a flux grenade, simply against armor instead, Without Touching Shields AT ALL.
That doesn't make any sense because shields surround armour, to get to armor you have to go through shields so there's no way this idea could exist in new Eden logically as it makes no sense for someone to be shot in the heart with a bullet that completely ignores body armor |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
136
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Posted - 2012.10.23 04:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't support the OP idea, but the general idea of nanobot grenades I do fully support. |
Villanor Aquarius
Shattered Ascension
79
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Posted - 2012.10.23 16:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
In EVE there is a skill called tactical shield manipulation that changes the point at which damage "bleeds" into armor through shields. So in the EVE universe you can damage armor while shields are still there so they could easily justify an anti armor grenade. OR These grenades could be super powerful against armor but require that the target be low on shields already. Flux grenades remove the strongest point of Caldari tank so you need to get out quick if one hits you. These grenades would do the same for armor. Got a pesky Gallente HAV rolling around with no shields but armor tanking like a boss lob one of these and their armor goes way down and suddenly they need to GTFO.
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XINERA XIOS
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
14
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Posted - 2012.10.23 16:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Zat Earthshatter wrote:It appears people have missed the point. Yes, shields usually block weapons before reaching armor. And I KNOW that other weapons hurt shields first.
This grenade is NOT, repeat NOT, meant to directly kill or replace AV in overall effectiveness. What it is meant to do have a similar ability as a flux grenade, simply against armor instead, Without Touching Shields AT ALL. That doesn't make any sense because shields surround armour, to get to armor you have to go through shields so there's no way this idea could exist in new Eden logically as it makes no sense for someone to be shot in the heart with a bullet that completely ignores body armor
See technological describtion
Skihids wrote:The one shotting of shields with the flux is bad enough, imagine the grenade spam we would get if one of each was all you had to have to kill anything on the field.
As he said it doesn't kill you. I often go to 0/0 and then my Shields go up again and my Armor repair modul helps me in my suit. in game you have your shield points and armor points AND 1 Point Flesh ( i think) so losing you complet Armour doesn't kill you
I like the Idea, because it would help against all the Gallente HAVs and the huge amound of heavys.
Problems could be squads with Flux and Nano grenates rampaging through and one hit all the shorn sheep. |
Ghost-33
ShootBreakStab
108
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Posted - 2012.10.23 18:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Nothing can go through the shields without taking them down first and it wouldn't make sense otherwise.
So how does a repair laser repair armor while the shields are up? Wouldn't that mean the Laser gun should go through straight to armor too? Or shouldn't you have to drop your own shields to receive armor repair? |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2012.10.23 20:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
@ghost-33 the shields are designed to stop basically every offensive energy type so whatever goes through the shields would theoretically be harmless)
@xinera xios there isn't much of a description besides saying it magically ignores shields
The flux is balanced simply because shields regen without a module, so the same concept on armour would be beyond OP |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2012.10.23 20:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Villanor Aquarius wrote:In EVE there is a skill called tactical shield manipulation that changes the point at which damage "bleeds" into armor through shields. So in the EVE universe you can damage armor while shields are still there so they could easily justify an anti armor grenade. OR These grenades could be super powerful against armor but require that the target be low on shields already. Flux grenades remove the strongest point of Caldari tank so you need to get out quick if one hits you. These grenades would do the same for armor. Got a pesky Gallente HAV rolling around with no shields but armor tanking like a boss lob one of these and their armor goes way down and suddenly they need to GTFO.
Flux grenades only work because shields regenerate naturally, unless armour did the same and at a comparable rate to shields this idea would be flawed from the ground up |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:@ghost-33 the shields are designed to stop basically every offensive energy type so whatever goes through the shields would theoretically be harmless)
@xinera xios there isn't much of a description besides saying it magically ignores shields
The flux is balanced simply because shields regen without a module, so the same concept on armour would be beyond OP I forgot to mention in the tech description of OP that, because it disguises as repair 'bots, the defense CPU of the target vehicle allows it to get through shields. It still follows your logic, because the system thinks that it is harmless, even though it really isn't. |
Ghost-33
ShootBreakStab
108
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Well since no one likes your idea, (I'm not even Caldari and I like it lol) to make it more balanced you could have a higher resistance to shield weapons as Caldari since they rely on them more and theoretically would have more R&D put into shields.
Yes/No? |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:@ghost-33 the shields are designed to stop basically every offensive energy type so whatever goes through the shields would theoretically be harmless)
@xinera xios there isn't much of a description besides saying it magically ignores shields
The flux is balanced simply because shields regen without a module, so the same concept on armour would be beyond OP I forgot to mention in the tech description of OP that, because it disguises as repair 'bots, the defense CPU of the target vehicle allows it to get through shields. It still follows your logic, because the system thinks that it is harmless, even though it really isn't. But still, it'll be op because armor doesn't naturally heal like shields and we don't know how remote repairing works so that description most likely won't work |
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