DUST Search - SP Cap Numbers

Eskel Bondfree wrote:

I'd like to point out that there are two different kinds of SP caps in effect: the hard cap that limits the absolute number of SP you can earn per week, and the diminishing returns that also reset every week.

The fact that someone is getting less than 50 SP per match now doesn't tell us anything about how close he is to the hard cap. It only tells us that the number of matches he played since thursday is so high that the diminishing returns are eating up 99% of his active SP income (while the actual hard cap might still be 500k SP away). Because afaik the magnitude of diminishing returns only depends on the number of matches you played and is completely unrelated to the absolute number of SP you earned in those matches.

I think the only way to reliably hit the hard cap is to play a small number of matches while scoring shitloads of WP every single match. This way the cap can be reached before diminishing returns are slowing down SP income so much that you would need more than one weeks time to actually earn enough SP to hit the cap.

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.10.07 00:54:00 - [1] - Quote ~1,000,000 SP a week without boosters. ~1,500,000 SP a week with boosters Based on my observations.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.10.07 01:06:00 - [2] - Quote cannot remember exact amount of sp i started with this build ive just pushed past the 1.300,000 mark thats with a booster and thers 1 more day before sp cap resets
GarryKE Omnispace Trading Company 60	Posted - 2012.10.07 01:08:00 - [3] - Quote [quote=SGT Garrisson]cannot remember exact amount of sp i started with this build/quote] I think everybody started with 2.5k, if that's what you were referring to. Don't quote me on it though.
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.10.07 01:12:00 - [4] - Quote GarryKE wrote: [quote=SGT Garrisson]cannot remember exact amount of sp i started with this build/quote] I think everybody started with 2.5k, if that's what you were referring to. Don't quote me on it though. Everyone starts with 500,000 so that means 500,000 a week without boosters, etc. Let me update.
Supercakers Algintal Core Gallente Federation 45	Posted - 2012.10.07 01:14:00 - [5] - Quote I thought sp cap reset was on tuesday? That's more than one day away. Also - I am at about the 1million sp mark, and I went 7-3 and only got 1800sp :-/ I can't even get over 5k sp anymore. Ah well, at least I can still get some isk.
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.10.07 01:17:00 - [6] - Quote Supercakers wrote: I thought sp cap reset was on tuesday? That's more than one day away. Also - I am at about the 1million sp mark, and I went 7-3 and only got 1800sp :-/ I can't even get over 5k sp anymore. Ah well, at least I can still get some isk. There's a cap to how much SP you make in one week. It resets on tuesday.
HK-40 120	Posted - 2012.10.07 01:19:00 - [7] - Quote Debacle Nano wrote: ~500,000 SP a week without boosters. ~1,000,000 SP a week with boosters Based on my observations. The SP Booster should only give a 50% increase to your SP Cap, not 100%. As per item description and Dev feedback.
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.10.07 01:29:00 - [8] - Quote HK-40 wrote: Debacle Nano wrote: ~500,000 SP a week without boosters. ~1,000,000 SP a week with boosters Based on my observations. The SP Booster should only give a 50% increase to your SP Cap, not 100%. As per item description and Dev feedback. Yea. Didn't think that over. Then the only possible option is the 1.5 million if the cap includes what you started with. To the edit button!
Conraire Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 52	Posted - 2012.10.07 02:18:00 - [9] - Quote He's close, I'm just past 1.1m SP myself, and still get between 5-15k per game. But, I'm all from gun fighting and capping though. And blowing a few Bolas out of the air :)
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2012.10.07 02:28:00 - [10] - Quote Yep, ~1,300,000sp now and just getting ~3000sp for a good game. It's still fun though.

Skytt Syysch Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 235	Posted - 2012.10.07 02:31:00 - [11] - Quote I think Nothin said it was about 600k without a booster when I asked him. I'm not sure if that included passive SP, though I don't think it did.
SYST3M 0V3RL0AD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.10.07 12:02:00 - [12] - Quote Now, for your viewing pleasure, a brick wall of half-assed calculations that are probably not accurate (but close, i hope): Alright, so I did a bit of math to try to find out what the actual cap is closest to. It goes a little something like this: Passive SP = 1SP every 3 seconds (roughly) That's 20 SP per minute. Which is 1,200 SP per hour. I calculated the time I installed Codex and activated my Passive SP to today. That is roughly 137 hours total . That 137 is made up of 16 hours from Codex launch to the reset the following day, leaving 121 hours this week. We started with 500,000 SP. By the Tuesday morning of our SP cap reset (which most people aren't aware happened) I was around approx. 850,000 SP total. So, minus the Passive SP for those 16 hours from launch to reset (19,200) = 830,800. Subtract the 500,000 we started with equals 330,800. I made 330,800 SP in the 16 hours from when Codex was released Monday at GMT 19:00 to when the SP cap reset came Tuesday at GMT 11:00. My current SP total is around 1,471,453. Take away the first day points (330,800) and the intitial 500,000 and the Passive SP from day one (20,400) and that leaves 620,253 SP earned this week. Subtract the Passive SP gained since the reset (148800) and that leaves 471,453 SP Total since reset. UPDATE: At the point i figure out these numbers i was still making around 400-700SP per match. I played a lot of games afterward and gained another 20,000 or so and am now receiving around 45 SP per game including booster. I'm very near to the cap. at this point. Add that 20,000 plus another 6 hours or so of Passive SP to the 471,453 and you get 498,653. Anywho, Unfortunately my numbers are indeed rough. I may have had a few drinks the night before the reset and 850,000 is a rough estimate of the last number i recall my SP being near. Give or take 49,999. I know it was at least 850,000 but under 900,000. So unfortunately, my final estimate could be as much as 49,999 lower than the actual cap. This places the cap, in my eyes to between 500,000 and 550,000. I would say nearer to 550,000 given the fact i have not hit 0 SP in a game yet (but i'm very close) and total from those first 16 hours may be slightly off. UPDATE 2: I've managed to grind out another 48,000 or so. So the cap is an additional 50,000. That places the cap at 600,000 per week, as far as i can tell. Some people are discussing before booster, after booster etc., but i'm pretty sure it is irrelevant. My theory is, the booster is not additional SP to the cap. The cap is the cap. If you have a booster you just get there faster, but you don't get anything more than someone without a booster when all is said and done, as far as i can tell. The system appears to take the total points you made including booster and subtracts that from the pool of allowed total points (the cap). What you earn per match is based on a percentage of the remaining cap amount pool. Your booster bonus gets added to your contribution SP and that total gets subtracted from the pool, lowering your return percentage the next game. And so on down the line (diminishing returns). (Side note: This is why point booster players will receive no benefit over anyone else, so long as everyone else does hit the cap each week. If you fail to reach the cap, then yes, they will surpass you because they will always hit the cap, every week. But any player that gets closer to the cap than you that week will eventually surpass you anyway.) So, according to my slightly inebriated calculations the weekly cap before Passive SP is very near 550,000 SP. Passive included you get an additional 201,600 making the maximum SP possible per week 751,600. I'm probably wrong, i'll be the first to say I did not document things as i should have because i didn't intend to figure this out,and therefore my results are likely flawed. But they're close. Close enough to rule out anyone claiming over 600,000 SP per week as the cap. It is definitely lower than 600,000 in my opinion. Feel free to double check my sleep deprived math and kindly let me know if i made any mistakes. I'm just doing the best i can with what i've got to do my part to settle this with as much logic and real numbers as possible. If nobody comes up with the true answer with 100% certainty and actual numbers by the reset on Tuesday, i will personally document the actual numbers next week and post a 100% accurate answer when i hit the cap thereafter. TL;DR The weekly cap is roughly 600,000. Not including Passive SP. Passive SP over one week's time is another 200,000. Booster is not additional , it's included in your cap and it's only a faster way to reach the cap, not a way to attain more than the cap. It is unknown if the 500,000 SP we started with is included in the cap or if it was a one time, free and clear jumping off point. If included that makes the cap technically 1,100,000 per week. If we see larger payouts this coming week in the initial games compared to the SP gains in the initial games last week then we'll know.
Chankk Saotome CrimeWave Syndicate 170	Posted - 2012.10.07 12:37:00 - [13] - Quote You're all making the mistake of including the 500k SP you started with... My main character is earning less than 1,000 sp per battle now, even in really good matches where I'll pull out 120k+ ISK and 2000+ WP. Current SP is 953,656. All of that was earned after Wednesday's reset, no booster, no passive SP which was on my ALT (like 76k now). Minus the start that makes the base weekly SP cap from combat somewhere between 450 ~ 500k. With boosters you can obviously earn more, as you can also with passive though I haven't calculated those numbers and won't be able to till next reset.
SYST3M 0V3RL0AD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.10.07 12:43:00 - [14] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: You're all making the mistake of including the 500k SP you started with... My main character is earning less than 1,000 sp per battle now, even in really good matches where I'll pull out 120k+ ISK and 2000+ WP. Current SP is 953,656. All of that was earned after Wednesday's reset, no booster, no passive SP which was on my ALT (like 76k now). Minus the start that makes the base weekly SP cap from combat somewhere between 450 ~ 500k. With boosters you can obviously earn more, as you can also with passive though I haven't calculated those numbers and won't be able to till next reset. Erm, i know my post ^ is a TL;DR ,but if you're actually interested on the topic,you may want to read it. I already removed the initial 500,000 SP from the equation and the passive SP i acquired. Booster is irrelevant as far as i'm concerned, which i explain my theory of above.
Kleanur Guy SyNergy Gaming 154	Posted - 2012.10.07 12:43:00 - [15] - Quote Debacle Nano wrote: ~1,000,000 SP a week without boosters. ~1,500,000 SP a week with boosters Based on my observations. Ive currently got 1.131mil SP. Thats what 120k worth of free SP from passive. This is without a booster because im all for tha f2p. So that means I'm on 1.01mil SP and still getting <800 SP games but >150 SP. Although I did create my account like slightly late however 1k on a good 3-4k wp game is still a fair amount. I don't think its 1000000 SP exactly. 1mil without boosters seems about right.
Shadows Maker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 129	Posted - 2012.10.07 13:56:00 - [16] - Quote Whatever the cap is its not good enough, i don\t play much as the no lifers?/hardcores? here and am already getting around 1000 SP 2 days ago so even casuals will hit the cap before the next reset
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 76	Posted - 2012.10.07 13:57:00 - [17] - Quote I'd like to point out that there are two different kinds of SP caps in effect: the hard cap that limits the absolute number of SP you can earn per week, and the diminishing returns that also reset every week. The fact that someone is getting less than 50 SP per match now doesn't tell us anything about how close he is to the hard cap. It only tells us that the number of matches he played since thursday is so high that the diminishing returns are eating up 99% of his active SP income (while the actual hard cap might still be 500k SP away). Because afaik the magnitude of diminishing returns only depends on the number of matches you played and is completely unrelated to the absolute number of SP you earned in those matches. I think the only way to reliably hit the hard cap is to play a small number of matches while scoring shitloads of WP every single match. This way the cap can be reached before diminishing returns are slowing down SP income so much that you would need more than one weeks time to actually earn enough SP to hit the cap.
SYST3M 0V3RL0AD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.10.07 17:10:00 - [18] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: I'd like to point out that there are two different kinds of SP caps in effect: the hard cap that limits the absolute number of SP you can earn per week, and the diminishing returns that also reset every week. The fact that someone is getting less than 50 SP per match now doesn't tell us anything about how close he is to the hard cap. It only tells us that the number of matches he played since thursday is so high that the diminishing returns are eating up 99% of his active SP income (while the actual hard cap might still be 500k SP away). Because afaik the magnitude of diminishing returns only depends on the number of matches you played and is completely unrelated to the absolute number of SP you earned in those matches. I think the only way to reliably hit the hard cap is to play a small number of matches while scoring shitloads of WP every single match. This way the cap can be reached before diminishing returns are slowing down SP income so much that you would need more than one weeks time to actually earn enough SP to hit the cap. While there are two different kinds of cap in play, that does not mean they are isolated with one not affecting the other. Do you claim this separation as fact, or just your own speculation? Where did you get this information from? As far as I am concerned i have no reason to think that is true at all. I believe that there is a hard cap that determines your rate of diminished returns based on the maximum total you can receive each week and the rate at which you actually earn SP. This is what makes the most sense to me unless someone has proof otherwise. I do not think the diminished return is simply based off of how many games someone plays. In your theory, that would mean a hypothetically terrible player that only earns 1000 SP per match immediately after the SP reset and a guy that pulls 20,000 SP per game would be set on the same diminished return schedule if they played the exact same number of games, in which case the better player would always end up with more total SP. In my theory, the guy making 20,000 per game's diminished return rate would be 20 times more aggressive than that of the guy earning 1000 per game. Eventually there would be a point where the guy earning 20,000 would hit a cap and the guy making 1,000 per game would continue earning higher returns over a greater number of games until he approached the same cap that the 20,000 per game guy did. Maybe i misunderstood what you're saying, but i think i got it? Please correct me if i'm going off in a wrong direction and i apologize in advance if I missed something. In my opinion, my theory lines up with CCP's concept of trying to slow down grinders for average players to catch up. They aren't about having a static diminished returns schedule which would allow high scoring players to come out on top.I don't think they would let a large undetermined gap of points possibly exist that could create imbalance. I don't think it is based on the number of games played, instead i think it is based on the Cap of total points allowed and the diminished returns is on a dynamic sliding scale depending on how long it takes a player to approach that Cap. A few games scoring ** tons of points which yield the same amount of SP as a ** ton of games earning a small amount over time. The cap is the cap and however players reach it is up to their play style and skills, but ultimately they both have the exact same potential to earn the same SP when all is said and done. I don't have proof either, but if you think about it i believe it makes a bit more sense and lines up with CCP's whole purpose of doing this a bit better than the idea of a static diminished return rate. I could be wrong, sure. I'm not afraid to be wrong at all, so please, if anyone has actual proof or a better theory than I, I do welcome that insight.
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 76	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:43:00 - [19] - Quote SYST3M 0V3RL0AD wrote: many words... Yes, I guess you're right. Though I'm pretty sure that last build diminishing returns were based on the number of games and nothing else, it certainly makes more sense to combine both of the new weekly caps the way you described. When I posted I just assumed CCP didn't change the mechanics of diminishing returns (other than extending the time frame to 7 days), since there was no mention of it. I think I'll do some testing to see if playing a lot of games with low score still reduces your SP income significantly or not.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:53:00 - [20] - Quote 1SP every 5seconds i counted Anyway im sure i started with like 300k in SP and im now at 1.3+mil SP and im getting 200SP a match or so with booster Id say maybe 1mil cap tbh

Jariel Manton SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 210	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:55:00 - [21] - Quote Debacle Nano wrote: ~1,000,000 SP a week without boosters. ~1,500,000 SP a week with boosters Based on my observations. I'm capped at 1.5 million with a booster, getting 0 sp since we started at 500k that means that its less than 1 million since passive sp is on this character also.
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:57:00 - [22] - Quote Jariel Manton wrote: Debacle Nano wrote: ~1,000,000 SP a week without boosters. ~1,500,000 SP a week with boosters Based on my observations. I'm capped at 1.5 million with a booster, getting 0 sp since we started at 500k that means that its less than 1 million since passive sp is on this character also. I believe the cap is counting the 500k we started with. We will know for sure after next week.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:30:00 - [23] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: SYST3M 0V3RL0AD wrote: many words... Yes, I guess you're right. Though I'm pretty sure that last build diminishing returns were based on the number of games and nothing else, it certainly makes more sense to combine both of the new weekly caps the way you described. When I posted I just assumed CCP didn't change the mechanics of diminishing returns (other than extending the time frame to 7 days), since there was no mention of it. I think I'll do some testing to see if playing a lot of games with low score still reduces your SP income significantly or not. The diminishing returns system would greatly favor boosters if it were based simply on the number of matches played. I assume that CCP could see that and not implement it that way. Making the reward calculation a diminishing percentage of the hard cap on SP makes much more sense and it is similar to the skilling costs where the last bit of improvement costs as much as that already purchased. You get the majority of the rewards easily but the last bit comes much more dearly. Those who grind can squeeze out every last SP from thier alloted cap, and those of us who have much less time can still earn 85% or so of the cap. Better players will arrive at that number faster, while lower skilled players could still grind it out to get to that 85%+. The better players who have time to grind will pull ahead of the pack, but not so far that the rest of us give up.
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 76	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:59:00 - [24] - Quote Jariel Manton wrote: I'm capped at 1.5 million with a booster, getting 0 sp since we started at 500k that means that its less than 1 million since passive sp is on this character also. So are you still getting passive SP?


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page