DUST Search - SP Cap Numbers

Eskel Bondfree wrote:

I'd like to point out that there are two different kinds of SP caps in effect: the hard cap that limits the absolute number of SP you can earn per week, and the diminishing returns that also reset every week.

The fact that someone is getting less than 50 SP per match now doesn't tell us anything about how close he is to the hard cap. It only tells us that the number of matches he played since thursday is so high that the diminishing returns are eating up 99% of his active SP income (while the actual hard cap might still be 500k SP away). Because afaik the magnitude of diminishing returns only depends on the number of matches you played and is completely unrelated to the absolute number of SP you earned in those matches.

I think the only way to reliably hit the hard cap is to play a small number of matches while scoring shitloads of WP every single match. This way the cap can be reached before diminishing returns are slowing down SP income so much that you would need more than one weeks time to actually earn enough SP to hit the cap.


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SYST3M 0V3RL0AD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.10.07 12:02:00 - [1] - Quote Now, for your viewing pleasure, a brick wall of half-assed calculations that are probably not accurate (but close, i hope): Alright, so I did a bit of math to try to find out what the actual cap is closest to. It goes a little something like this: Passive SP = 1SP every 3 seconds (roughly) That's 20 SP per minute. Which is 1,200 SP per hour. I calculated the time I installed Codex and activated my Passive SP to today. That is roughly 137 hours total . That 137 is made up of 16 hours from Codex launch to the reset the following day, leaving 121 hours this week. We started with 500,000 SP. By the Tuesday morning of our SP cap reset (which most people aren't aware happened) I was around approx. 850,000 SP total. So, minus the Passive SP for those 16 hours from launch to reset (19,200) = 830,800. Subtract the 500,000 we started with equals 330,800. I made 330,800 SP in the 16 hours from when Codex was released Monday at GMT 19:00 to when the SP cap reset came Tuesday at GMT 11:00. My current SP total is around 1,471,453. Take away the first day points (330,800) and the intitial 500,000 and the Passive SP from day one (20,400) and that leaves 620,253 SP earned this week. Subtract the Passive SP gained since the reset (148800) and that leaves 471,453 SP Total since reset. UPDATE: At the point i figure out these numbers i was still making around 400-700SP per match. I played a lot of games afterward and gained another 20,000 or so and am now receiving around 45 SP per game including booster. I'm very near to the cap. at this point. Add that 20,000 plus another 6 hours or so of Passive SP to the 471,453 and you get 498,653. Anywho, Unfortunately my numbers are indeed rough. I may have had a few drinks the night before the reset and 850,000 is a rough estimate of the last number i recall my SP being near. Give or take 49,999. I know it was at least 850,000 but under 900,000. So unfortunately, my final estimate could be as much as 49,999 lower than the actual cap. This places the cap, in my eyes to between 500,000 and 550,000. I would say nearer to 550,000 given the fact i have not hit 0 SP in a game yet (but i'm very close) and total from those first 16 hours may be slightly off. UPDATE 2: I've managed to grind out another 48,000 or so. So the cap is an additional 50,000. That places the cap at 600,000 per week, as far as i can tell. Some people are discussing before booster, after booster etc., but i'm pretty sure it is irrelevant. My theory is, the booster is not additional SP to the cap. The cap is the cap. If you have a booster you just get there faster, but you don't get anything more than someone without a booster when all is said and done, as far as i can tell. The system appears to take the total points you made including booster and subtracts that from the pool of allowed total points (the cap). What you earn per match is based on a percentage of the remaining cap amount pool. Your booster bonus gets added to your contribution SP and that total gets subtracted from the pool, lowering your return percentage the next game. And so on down the line (diminishing returns). (Side note: This is why point booster players will receive no benefit over anyone else, so long as everyone else does hit the cap each week. If you fail to reach the cap, then yes, they will surpass you because they will always hit the cap, every week. But any player that gets closer to the cap than you that week will eventually surpass you anyway.) So, according to my slightly inebriated calculations the weekly cap before Passive SP is very near 550,000 SP. Passive included you get an additional 201,600 making the maximum SP possible per week 751,600. I'm probably wrong, i'll be the first to say I did not document things as i should have because i didn't intend to figure this out,and therefore my results are likely flawed. But they're close. Close enough to rule out anyone claiming over 600,000 SP per week as the cap. It is definitely lower than 600,000 in my opinion. Feel free to double check my sleep deprived math and kindly let me know if i made any mistakes. I'm just doing the best i can with what i've got to do my part to settle this with as much logic and real numbers as possible. If nobody comes up with the true answer with 100% certainty and actual numbers by the reset on Tuesday, i will personally document the actual numbers next week and post a 100% accurate answer when i hit the cap thereafter. TL;DR The weekly cap is roughly 600,000. Not including Passive SP. Passive SP over one week's time is another 200,000. Booster is not additional , it's included in your cap and it's only a faster way to reach the cap, not a way to attain more than the cap. It is unknown if the 500,000 SP we started with is included in the cap or if it was a one time, free and clear jumping off point. If included that makes the cap technically 1,100,000 per week. If we see larger payouts this coming week in the initial games compared to the SP gains in the initial games last week then we'll know.
SYST3M 0V3RL0AD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.10.07 12:43:00 - [2] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: You're all making the mistake of including the 500k SP you started with... My main character is earning less than 1,000 sp per battle now, even in really good matches where I'll pull out 120k+ ISK and 2000+ WP. Current SP is 953,656. All of that was earned after Wednesday's reset, no booster, no passive SP which was on my ALT (like 76k now). Minus the start that makes the base weekly SP cap from combat somewhere between 450 ~ 500k. With boosters you can obviously earn more, as you can also with passive though I haven't calculated those numbers and won't be able to till next reset. Erm, i know my post ^ is a TL;DR ,but if you're actually interested on the topic,you may want to read it. I already removed the initial 500,000 SP from the equation and the passive SP i acquired. Booster is irrelevant as far as i'm concerned, which i explain my theory of above.
SYST3M 0V3RL0AD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.10.07 17:10:00 - [3] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: I'd like to point out that there are two different kinds of SP caps in effect: the hard cap that limits the absolute number of SP you can earn per week, and the diminishing returns that also reset every week. The fact that someone is getting less than 50 SP per match now doesn't tell us anything about how close he is to the hard cap. It only tells us that the number of matches he played since thursday is so high that the diminishing returns are eating up 99% of his active SP income (while the actual hard cap might still be 500k SP away). Because afaik the magnitude of diminishing returns only depends on the number of matches you played and is completely unrelated to the absolute number of SP you earned in those matches. I think the only way to reliably hit the hard cap is to play a small number of matches while scoring shitloads of WP every single match. This way the cap can be reached before diminishing returns are slowing down SP income so much that you would need more than one weeks time to actually earn enough SP to hit the cap. While there are two different kinds of cap in play, that does not mean they are isolated with one not affecting the other. Do you claim this separation as fact, or just your own speculation? Where did you get this information from? As far as I am concerned i have no reason to think that is true at all. I believe that there is a hard cap that determines your rate of diminished returns based on the maximum total you can receive each week and the rate at which you actually earn SP. This is what makes the most sense to me unless someone has proof otherwise. I do not think the diminished return is simply based off of how many games someone plays. In your theory, that would mean a hypothetically terrible player that only earns 1000 SP per match immediately after the SP reset and a guy that pulls 20,000 SP per game would be set on the same diminished return schedule if they played the exact same number of games, in which case the better player would always end up with more total SP. In my theory, the guy making 20,000 per game's diminished return rate would be 20 times more aggressive than that of the guy earning 1000 per game. Eventually there would be a point where the guy earning 20,000 would hit a cap and the guy making 1,000 per game would continue earning higher returns over a greater number of games until he approached the same cap that the 20,000 per game guy did. Maybe i misunderstood what you're saying, but i think i got it? Please correct me if i'm going off in a wrong direction and i apologize in advance if I missed something. In my opinion, my theory lines up with CCP's concept of trying to slow down grinders for average players to catch up. They aren't about having a static diminished returns schedule which would allow high scoring players to come out on top.I don't think they would let a large undetermined gap of points possibly exist that could create imbalance. I don't think it is based on the number of games played, instead i think it is based on the Cap of total points allowed and the diminished returns is on a dynamic sliding scale depending on how long it takes a player to approach that Cap. A few games scoring ** tons of points which yield the same amount of SP as a ** ton of games earning a small amount over time. The cap is the cap and however players reach it is up to their play style and skills, but ultimately they both have the exact same potential to earn the same SP when all is said and done. I don't have proof either, but if you think about it i believe it makes a bit more sense and lines up with CCP's whole purpose of doing this a bit better than the idea of a static diminished return rate. I could be wrong, sure. I'm not afraid to be wrong at all, so please, if anyone has actual proof or a better theory than I, I do welcome that insight.